LED for micro cab...

[az2000]

The bright sticks look very interesting

I agree. The specs on the packaging don't sound exciting. But, I saw the teardown on candlepowerforums a month ago. It stood out to me the way the diodes face forward. I thought would be better than putting a Cree A19 in a reflector (and less uncomfortable removing the diffusion globe, exposing shock risks.).

Then @BOBBY_G mentioned them. So, I picked up a 3-pack of 10w (60w equiv) for $10. The Cree omnidirectional A19 works very well. But, this $3.50 10w bulb (with the plastic cap removed) produces 22% more light in a reflector. It's much more amenable to using it without a reflector, which is what we see many new, low-budget CFL growers doing.

The 16w (100w equiv) is selling right now for $5 each at Sam's Club. If someone's not a member they can buy them for $8 each using this guest pass. (You register, then deselect the $45 membership fee at checkout, when buying the bulbs. It's kind of predatory. You have to look further down the page to see the option to remove the membership from the shopping cart.).

For the price, these look like "CFL killers." The usual objection to LED bulbs is that you have to spend $10-$20 on a Cree bulb. But, $3-$8 is in CFL territory. And then, the way these are semi-directional out of the box, people who hang CFLs in mid-air (unreflected), they'd probably need half the bulbs.

 

[BOBBY_G]

the brightsticks are super blue as well, great for vegging/clones. still need to get around to shooting them with the spectrometer, but will, i promise

 

[PicklesRus]

I think I may make a light stick fixture

 

[BOBBY_G]

why? they are under 100 lumens/watt.

COB is a much better buy

these are best used for cheap supplemental lighting, etc. prob not the type of thing you build a fixture around

bummed that the new 16W versions dont come in cool white

http://www.cnet.com/products/ge-bright-stik-100w-replacement-led-2-pack/#!

 

[PicklesRus]

Oh I thought it was more.

 

[az2000]

why? they are under 100 lumens/watt.

COB is a much better buy

Some people don't want to do COB. I'm excited about the GE BrightStik because it appears to be vastly better than CFL (at CFL prices). It could be a very good alternative.

Regarding lumens, as I said a week or two ago in your other thread, the way these face forward there is an efficiency by design which doesn't exist with other LED lightbulbs (like Cree A19 which points the diodes sideways).

The flush/forward mount makes it less risky to remove the diffusor. And, directional in a way typical omnis aren't. (I measured 22% more lumens in a reflector compared to a Cree A19.). And, unlike a Cree (or a CFL), it doesn't *have* to be in a reflector because it's directional by design! That's why the lumens on the box don't count (compared to other lights).

I'm excited about it. I know there are better lights. But, this could be a massive improvement for CFL users, new growers, etc. People who aren't going to baptize themselves in the PPFD, PARW, umole, lingo, part numbers, CPU fans, etc.

This could affect *a lot* more people in a substantial way. (Baby steps, outreach, etc., versus perfection being the enemy of good.).

 

[az2000]

Oh I thought it was more.

I think it's how you measure it. On the box they look low. But, compared to reflecting an omni, they're high (because they don't need that much reflection). 22% more lux than Cree's 88L/w in a reflector. (And, for those who won't bother to setup reflectors, it's already directional. That's a huge win over hanging omnis in mid-air.

And, the 16w (100w equiv) appears to be even more efficient. It's 95 L/w on the box. Remove the cap and use it directionally and that's going to be much higher L/w (compared to a reflected omni, or a 18w Cree PAR38 which is 83 L/w. I had very good results using those PAR38s at just 21w/sq ft. I'm expecting the GE BrightStik to do better, without the distance requirement, and less expense buying it.).

If you had an idea for a fixture, I encourage you to pursue it. It might help others who would go this route. It looks like a useful route (even if it's not "the best.").

 

[BOBBY_G]

all great points. at $0.33 watt witha 5 year warranty it doesnt have to be top-of-the-line efficient to be valuable!!

those would rock with jerry's 88 cent cob reflectors, tho you might have to hack the 'hole' to fit

 

[az2000]

those would rock with jerry's 88 cent cob reflectors, tho you might have to hack the 'hole' to fit

Do you have a link? That could be useful because the clamp-on reflectors are kind of expensive just to get a reflector. And, those reflectors are a little large for this small/flush light.

I was thinking about leaving 3/4" of the diffusion cap, and painting the interior of it white to reflect light. That's a risk getting paint on the diodes. (I recall reading a year ago that the phosphors can be affected by paint fumes.).

A little reflector that could be hose-clamped to the side would be better. It could act as a heat sink. The base of those lights gets very hot to the touch.

 

[Rahz]

Lumens isn't fair to blurple. Still, blurple just doesn't seem to support strong growth. The epistar diodes have never been that efficient and I've never seen an impressive grow log. Blurple was tried by many growers used to dealing with HPS and is the reason LED has been avoided despite good products being around for the past 2-4 years.

 

[PicklesRus]

Since we are taking about lm/w and convenience, SMD strip led fixtures should be a really good option and are becoming more common in retail stores.

I started a basic lm/w reference spreadsheet to help me understand how lights compare, It would be great if it had a bunch of specific lights in their like the ones discussed in this thread! If you want to add stuff to it please request edit access by clicking the button and I'll allow

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10qxLrUdP11fsa3jtCv9ttLF68Cm91EsMVyc7qxsw6Lc/edit?usp=docslist_api

If you find a LED shop light for a decent price that fits your space it would be worth imo checking the lm/w to see if it's more efficient too

 

[zachyweezer88]

You can make a little extension cord with a GFI outlet on the end of it. Chop off the end of an extension cord, buy a junction box at Home Depot (and a strain relief for the wire which will enter it through a "knockout"). Buy the faceplate.

Maybe it's easier to replace the outlet in the wall. But, I'm just saying you could have a more dedicated and portable electrical outlet for the lights only.



Lumens is a measure of what the human eye sees. So, comparing white lights like the Cree LED lightbulb and the GE BrightStik, it's safe to compare lumens. But, the blurple light of the inexpensive LED fixtures (like that UFO) might have more PAR light in the red blue that wouldn't be measured (as strongly) as lumens.

Maybe that's why the advertisement's lumens sounds low. (But, you can't trust anything they say. It's like going to the Dollar store and being picky about things.).

I'd like to see you do the BrightStiks just to test it out for everyone else. I don't know when I'll be able to. They seem very bright compared to the Cree A19 (which grows well). The 16w (100w equiv) is rated at around 95 L/w. That's without the cap removed. When you factor that into it, and how it's already mostly directional (I assume it's flush mounted like the 10w), that's gotta be better than the Cree A19. Just $8 for one of those. $3.50 for the 10w.

You could officially declare CFLs dead with one grow.

Alright, so I bought six of these BrightStiks, three soft white and three daylight. I also picked up a GFCI safety outlet. I popped the plastic off from each bulb. I have them hanging alongside my CFLs. Four CFLs are in the middle, with three Brightstiks on either side. The CFL bulbs and LED bulbs are at the same level, roughly two inches from my seedlings. No increase in temperature yet. I'm very please so far. I used the plastic Y socket adapter pieces for hanging all of these, however, and I'm afraid a lot of light is going to waste. Is this dramatically cutting down on the light that my plants are getting? My cab is lined in mylar, for what it's worth. Thanks for all of the suggestions! We'll see how this goes.

 

[az2000]

Alright, so I bought six of these BrightStiks, three soft white and three daylight.

Yay!!!

Is this dramatically cutting down on the light that my plants are getting?

Yes. You want them to point where you want the light to go. That's the positive aspect of them. Instead of radiating light in unwanted directions, most of it goes forward (some to the sides). But, that adds a challenge to typical CFL usage. They need to point somewhere (instead of hanging in free space, radiating everywhere).

To be honest, you would have realized a significant improvement if you had put your CFLs in reflector. I think the way people hang them in free space is what gives CFLs such a lousy reputation.

If you had that level of efficiency, you would realize another significant improvement from this GE BrightStik being forward-facing (not losing light through reflection; more direct light). It would benefit from being in a reflector too. But, even without a reflector it is putting most light in one direction.

So, if you can workout how to hang/aim/mount them, you should see the most difference. (And then, if you added reflectors someday, you would get some more efficiency, more light going to the plant. But, nothing like the improvement you'd get from reflectors on the omnidirectional CFL.).

Home Depot sells hanging sockets. You could hang these from the top of your space. Tie a loop to get the height you want. There's also these flexible extensions.

A photo of your space would help. (If you've posted one before, link to that post.). You can do something like make short extension cords which end in a hanging socket. Drop those down from the top?

Or, tie some string to the LED-end of the Y connector, and hoist it up a little?

 

[PicklesRus]

Alright, so I bought six of these BrightStiks, three soft white and three daylight. I also picked up a GFCI safety outlet. I popped the plastic off from each bulb. I have them hanging alongside my CFLs. Four CFLs are in the middle, with three Brightstiks on either side. The CFL bulbs and LED bulbs are at the same level, roughly two inches from my seedlings. No increase in temperature yet. I'm very please so far. I used the plastic Y socket adapter pieces for hanging all of these, however, and I'm afraid a lot of light is going to waste. Is this dramatically cutting down on the light that my plants are getting? My cab is lined in mylar, for what it's worth. Thanks for all of the suggestions! We'll see how this goes.

Awesome!

I'd mount power bars mounted on the ceiling and use these to point the lights straight down



http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B002DN2OEM/ref=mp_s_a_1_7?qid=1452124849&sr=8-7&pi=AC_SX110_SY165_QL70&keywords=light+socket+plug&dpPl=1&dpID=412qp8fqLiL&ref=plSrch

 

[az2000]

Be sure to spread the prongs apart so you get a tight fit. Those BrightStiks don't weigh much. But, you wouldn't want one wiggling its way out and falling on a plant. The diodes are phenominally hot and would do some damage if it lodged in the leaves.

Home Depot has socket extenders (about 1" long). You could stack 2-3 of those to lower the lights for irregular canopy. Also those flexible exenders I mentioned. (But, the added weight would make me more concerned about securing the plug to the power strip.).

 

[zachyweezer88]

Yay!!!To be honest, you would have realized a significant improvement if you had put your CFLs in reflector. I think the way people hang them in free space is what gives CFLs such a lousy reputation.

If you had that level of efficiency, you would realize another significant improvement from this GE BrightStik being forward-facing (not losing light through reflection; more direct light). It would benefit from being in a reflector too. But, even without a reflector it is putting most light in one direction.

So, if you can workout how to hang/aim/mount them, you should see the most difference. (And then, if you added reflectors someday, you would get some more efficiency, more light going to the plant. But, nothing like the improvement you'd get from reflectors on the omnidirectional CFL.).

Home Depot sells hanging sockets. You could hang these from the top of your space. Tie a loop to get the height you want. There's also these flexible extensions.

A photo of your space would help. (If you've posted one before, link to that post.). You can do something like make short extension cords which end in a hanging socket. Drop those down from the top?

Or, tie some string to the LED-end of the Y connector, and hoist it up a little?

Yay!!!



Yes. You want them to point where you want the light to go. That's the positive aspect of them. Instead of radiating light in unwanted directions, most of it goes forward (some to the sides). But, that adds a challenge to typical CFL usage. They need to point somewhere (instead of hanging in free space, radiating everywhere).

To be honest, you would have realized a significant improvement if you had put your CFLs in reflector. I think the way people hang them in free space is what gives CFLs such a lousy reputation.

If you had that level of efficiency, you would realize another significant improvement from this GE BrightStik being forward-facing (not losing light through reflection; more direct light). It would benefit from being in a reflector too. But, even without a reflector it is putting most light in one direction.

So, if you can workout how to hang/aim/mount them, you should see the most difference. (And then, if you added reflectors someday, you would get some more efficiency, more light going to the plant. But, nothing like the improvement you'd get from reflectors on the omnidirectional CFL.).

Home Depot sells hanging sockets. You could hang these from the top of your space. Tie a loop to get the height you want. There's also these flexible extensions.

A photo of your space would help. (If you've posted one before, link to that post.). You can do something like make short extension cords which end in a hanging socket. Drop those down from the top?


Or, tie some string to the LED-end of the Y connector, and hoist it up a little?

Yes, I think the aspect I'm finding most difficult at the moment is hanging/mounting/aiming. My life would be much easier with several of the flexible extensions you linked. Those look perfect. I'm tired of all the wire clutter. A pic will be coming very soon. My phone's camera is a little temperamental.

 

[zachyweezer88]

Awesome!

I'd mount power bars mounted on the ceiling and use these to point the lights straight down

View attachment 3579708

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B002DN2OEM/ref=mp_s_a_1_7?qid=1452124849&sr=8-7&pi=AC_SX110_SY165_QL70&keywords=light+socket+plug&dpPl=1&dpID=412qp8fqLiL&ref=plSrch

That's exactly what I had in mind! But unfortunately, I could only find two of those in my garage. Home Depot is on the list for tomorrow I guess. I'm thinking of using them on one long power strip near the front and mounting my vanity fixture in the back of my cab. That would allow for a total of seven bulbs. With the vanity, I think I'll order a few of those flexible extensions.

 

[az2000]

My life would be much easier with several of the flexible extensions you linked. Those look perfect.

I like them. There are 5 lengths. I have a few of each. You could mount the power-strip to the top of your cabinet and change the flex-extender as the plant grows.

Or, mount the powerstrip on a board you can raise and lower. Then just use the shortest flex extender for some aiming.

Was thinking, you should be able to wrap some thin (insulated) wire around the gap between the plug-to-socket and the base which will screw into it. That gap would give the wire some grip. Then tie the wire to the power strip. That would reduce the risk of one of those falling out (that would bother me, worrying about it all the time.).

If you take those flexible extenders apart, they have a metric M8x1.00 male thread on both ends. If you wanted to be fancy you could rigid mount the flexible extender to something like an aluminum plate, and wire them to a power cord.

I hope you're not getting into more than you bargained for. But, I honestly believe you're blazing a trail that other CFL users will benefit from.

 

[zachyweezer88]

I like them. There are 5 lengths. I have a few of each. You could mount the power-strip to the top of your cabinet and change the flex-extender as the plant grows.

Or, mount the powerstrip on a board you can raise and lower. Then just use the shortest flex extender for some aiming.

Was thinking, you should be able to wrap some thin (insulated) wire around the gap between the plug-to-socket and the base which will screw into it. That gap would give the wire some grip. Then tie the wire to the power strip. That would reduce the risk of one of those falling out (that would bother me, worrying about it all the time.).

If you take those flexible extenders apart, they have a metric M8x1.00 male thread on both ends. If you wanted to be fancy you could rigid mount the flexible extender to something like an aluminum plate, and wire them to a power cord.

I hope you're not getting into more than you bargained for. But, I honestly believe you're blazing a trail that other CFL users will benefit from.

Nah. I think I'll be able to swing it pretty easily. I did a little Googling, and you're right; little to nothing exists regarding these lights and cannabis. I feel like a real pioneer. . lol.

My temps have risen just a little, a couple of degrees at the most. It's nothing compared to the increase I saw with the additional CFLs the other day, though.

Anyway, I stumbled across this page and was wondering if you'd mind giving it a look.

http://boards.cannabis.com/threads/answers-about-cfl-hps-how-much-light.140735/

Basically, the OP is saying that anywhere from 4000 to 5000 lumens per sq. ft. is optimal for cannabis. Would you agree with this?

 

[az2000]

Basically, the OP is saying that anywhere from 4000 to 5000 lumens per sq. ft. is optimal for cannabis. Would you agree with this?

Others know more about that. I've heard 5,000 to 10,000 lux (lumens falling on a particular spot). I think that distinction is important because someone will hear 5000 and then read the lumens on a CFL's packaging, and hang that many CFLs -- radiating omnidirectionally. I.e., that's not the same as lumens falling on the plant (lux).

But, I don't think in those terms. I just think of watts per square foot for different light categories (inefficiencies) of light. I do 20-30w/sq ft with LED lightbulbs (probably more like 20-25 in a small space, 30-35 for taller plants).

I should buy a $20 Dr. Meter lux meter and pay more attention to lux. I use an app on my smartphone. But, the phone's sensor isn't good.

Your space is large enough that you would benefit from the $8 GE 16w (100w) equiv BrightStik. That would be a nice switch in flower to increase the light. For example, I think you could do 15-20w/sq ft in veg. Then 23-28w/sq ft in flower. I don't know what the lux comes out to. But, that's what I'm doing right now with my test MiracleGro plant. Switching some 10w to 16w bulbs would be a fast way to do that.

I'm going to get some 16w soon. I'm curious if the diodes are flush mounted (forward facing) too. I suppose there's a possibility they created an elevated tower like Cree A19 omnidirectional. If so, then I'll be staying with Cree 18w PAR38 floods.