Under Sanders, income and jobs would soar, economist says

see4

Well-Known Member
Lies. You Polo and gold watch wearing motherfucka. Lol I'm high. Carry on.

We were very lucky to snatched up a shortsale. We had a nice realtor who got us into a nice neighborhood. Good schools and strict city codes on appearance of your property.

We should be able to live comfortably here. We bought what we would be able to afford and would give us room to save money as my husband earns more.

Now is the time to buy. When did you start buying renter properties?
Yea, you definitely played it smart. Buying a short sale is a great opportunity for many.

I started buying properties in 2004. So, I've been at it for almost 12 years at this point. I'd have 1 more house than I have now, but I had to short sell in 2008. I bought the house at $410,000 in 2006, it was worth $290,000 in early 2008, and unfortunately the rental market tanked in that area as well. I was not able to cover my mortgage for that house, by a long shot. A couple hundred dollars a month wouldn't have hurt, but I would have been upside down by over $1,200 a month, and that was financial risk I didn't want to take.
 

see4

Well-Known Member
Both sides give tax reductions to businesses and the wealthy.

You are only mad when one side does it.

I am in favor of a flat sales tax. No reductions to business or the wealthy. No more having to prove to the government what you make and what you spend.
People have suggested a flat sales tax in replacement to income taxes. Which is an idea I'd be all for, except nobody has come up with an actual rational plan.
Oh and states rights. I'm assuming you're for "states rights"? Or is that yesterday's Republican mantra?
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
People have suggested a flat sales tax in replacement to income taxes. Which is an idea I'd be all for, except nobody has come up with an actual rational plan.
Oh and states rights. I'm assuming you're for "states rights"? Or is that yesterday's Republican mantra?
I think a flat tax would be a disaster, but that is still better than what we have now... making our current tax system a catastrophe in progress.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Flat tax is another one percenter trick meant to sound fair to the ill-informed.
I think an example of a fair tax might be as follows; on your home mortgage, the tax system encourages home ownership by subsidizing the interest portion of the loan in the form of letting the homeowner write it off his taxes. Currently there's no upper limit, so a very wealthy person can get millions in deductions just by having a monster house- that is itself an albatross in terms of social utility.

Instead, phase out the deduction above a certain level; full deductibility on the value of the house up to $500k, a step down of 20% for each $100k of home value above that until it's phased out completely for all amounts above a million dollars. If the wealthy individual wants a mansion, fine, but the American taxpayer need not subsidize it at the expense of multiple more practical homes. He's rich, right? Then he can afford it without ripping the rest of us off to get it!
 

bearkat42

Well-Known Member
I think an example of a fair tax might be as follows; on your home mortgage, the tax system encourages home ownership by subsidizing the interest portion of the loan in the form of letting the homeowner write it off his taxes. Currently there's no upper limit, so a very wealthy person can get millions in deductions just by having a monster house- that is itself an albatross in terms of social utility.

Instead, phase out the deduction above a certain level; full deductibility on the value of the house up to $500k, a step down of 20% for each $100k of home value above that until it's phased out completely for all amounts above a million dollars. If the wealthy individual wants a mansion, fine, but the American taxpayer need not subsidize it at the expense of multiple more practical homes. He's rich, right? Then he can afford it without ripping the rest of us off to get it!
I hadn't really thought of that, but it makes sense to me. But republicans would obviously be against this, and the saddest part of it all, is the fact that they would trick those in their party who it would most benefit into voting against it. You know, because it would lead to millions of abortions and they'd lose their guns.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
I hadn't really thought of that, but it makes sense to me. But republicans would obviously be against this, and the saddest part of it all, is the fact that they would trick those in their party who it would most benefit into voting against it. You know, because it would lead to millions of abortions and they'd lose their guns.
And takes money away from 'job creators', as if the middle class people who would benefit most from affordable housing aren't creating many MORE jobs every day with their aggregate purchasing power.

And Obama.
 

bearkat42

Well-Known Member
And takes money away from 'job creators', as if the middle class people who would benefit most from affordable housing aren't creating many MORE jobs every day with their aggregate purchasing power.

And Obama.
It's kinda hard to believe that people still go for that "job creators" nonsense. On second thought, it's not hard to believe at all.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
It's kinda hard to believe that people still go for that "job creators" nonsense. On second thought, it's not hard to believe at all.
It's easy to buy this trope; the important wealthy person does the hiring, right? The consumer who supports the business opportunity in the first place is never sitting in on the interview.
 

see4

Well-Known Member
I think a flat tax would be a disaster, but that is still better than what we have now... making our current tax system a catastrophe in progress.
Flat tax is another one percenter trick meant to sound fair to the ill-informed.
I agree. Flat income tax is just plain stupid. But I think if someone were to come up with a reasonable plan for Flat Sales Tax, there may be something to it.

I wonder if a Progressive Sales Tax is something that would work. A $20,000 car has a 5% tax, while a $90,000 car has a 10% tax, and a $200,000 car has a 30% tax. A loaf of bread has no tax, while a $90 can of caviar has a 5% tax.
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
I think an example of a fair tax might be as follows; on your home mortgage, the tax system encourages home ownership by subsidizing the interest portion of the loan in the form of letting the homeowner write it off his taxes. Currently there's no upper limit, so a very wealthy person can get millions in deductions just by having a monster house- that is itself an albatross in terms of social utility.

Instead, phase out the deduction above a certain level; full deductibility on the value of the house up to $500k, a step down of 20% for each $100k of home value above that until it's phased out completely for all amounts above a million dollars. If the wealthy individual wants a mansion, fine, but the American taxpayer need not subsidize it at the expense of multiple more practical homes. He's rich, right? Then he can afford it without ripping the rest of us off to get it!
No deductibility on anything....

If you truly want to be fair stop judging people on the size of their wallet.
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
Flat tax is another one percenter trick meant to sound fair to the ill-informed.
It is a truly fair tax. Everyone pays the same rate. What we have now is unfair and you want to make it more unfair in the name of fairness.... LOL!!!
 

bearkat42

Well-Known Member
I agree. Flat income tax is just plain stupid. But I think if someone were to come up with a reasonable plan for Flat Sales Tax, there may be something to it.

I wonder if a Progressive Sales Tax is something that would work. A $20,000 car has a 5% tax, while a $90,000 car has a 10% tax, and a $200,000 car has a 30% tax. A loaf of bread has no tax, while a $90 can of caviar has a 5% tax.
The progressive sales tax is an interesting idea.
It is a truly fair tax. Everyone pays the same rate. What we have now is unfair and you want to make it more unfair in the name of fairness.... LOL!!!
Case in point: The ill informed
 
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Red1966

Well-Known Member
You can not morally justify takling from others for your own gain.
When someone starts a business, they do all the work. 120 hrs a week and more. They take all the risks, too.
"Freedom" is not taking others property and labor at gunpoint.
You can be happy while starving to death. Stupid standard.
When someone lives on welfare they use public resources- fire, water, sewage, roads, police, ect. They need to pay closer to the real cost of these things, instead of demanding others do so.
Socialism's goal is absolute control of everybody.
Nobody but a dedicated few would work under your stupid scenario. They tried it at Jamestown and half of them starved the first winter.
The following is the stupidest post ever.
I dont think anyone here is backing hilary. Normally I would never watch the news, but It was interesting I saw a bit at the gym (local community center, socialism at work) and they were talking about how hilary is the democratic establishment candidate. Very interesting to see it out in the open like that, either im paying more attention now or things are a bit more transparent.
lets look at these 5 point and really analyze them.
Number one is reasonable. There is a cost to anything, the old economic saying is theres not such thing as a free lunch. So the first point makes some sense. But the costs will be on the rich. The negative impact will be on them, because economic disparity is out of control. You cannot morally justify the disparity between people who have multiple mansions, yachts, private planes and the average working class individual. Freedom is not the freedom to have as much physical goods and money as you can possible acquire. That my friends is greed. Why would one individual ever need to take home more that 250k per year? IF you cannot live a full, happy life on that, maybe you should reanalyze your goals and priorities in life. No religion or spiritual outlook would justify such a huge amount of money as necessary for happiness.
2&4 can be analyzed together. How do rich people get their money? When someone starts a business, they rarely do all the labor themselves. They have employees do the physical work while not giving them the full reward for their output of labor. This is because the person who starts the business controls the means of production, but this does not mean they have the right to take a disproportionate share of the profit. People are entitled to much more of the outcome from their labor than they typically receive.
Further, when someone starts a corporation they use public resources- fire, water, sewage, roads, police, ect. They need to pay closer to the real cost of these things, via higher taxes or wealth redistribution to their employees. That money they make using peoples labor and public resources needs to be put back into the system which they exploit to make their profits.
When companies move manufacturing to other countries they need to be taxed very high. Anything coming in or out of the country needs to be taxed alot as well. This would promote local manufacturing and create jobs in our country. Some materials we need to get from other countries if cost is a concern, but we need to look at the big picture and ask if this is sustainable. The bottom line profits cannot be the driving force of policy (rebuplican way), because this would leave the world in shambles (we are well on the way).
This leads me to #5. This country is still the most prosperous in the world. But it wont stay that way if we have no middle class and all the wealth end up in the hands of the top % of rich people (again, we are getting very close). Innovation? IMHO we dont need more inventions and scientific break throughs. We have enough technology, we have enough resources, medicine is advanced enough (cancer can be treated in different ways, high cbd treatments, going after the root cause, ect.). I think most scientists working in medicine will still work in medicine for the good of all people and because they enjoy science. Even if innovation becomes stagnant, realistically why do we need to advance any more? We dont need rapid advancement, we need a better quality of life for all people in this country. Thats what socialism has as a goal.
Lets talk about classes. People say there wont be any motivation under socialism, I dont agree. IN a socialist system, the lower class would be for people who dont work, cant work, or only want to work 8-16hrs a week. They could still sustain themselves, having guaranteed food clothing and shelter. This would be the smallest class. The middle class would be the biggest. This would include most working people, unskilled labor more so than skilled. If you work had 16-32 hrs, you should automatically be in this class. This would be pretty kushy, with enough to have hobbies, a nice house, a nice car, ect. The upper class would be skilled or highly educated people- scientists, doctors, lawyers, ect. These people would make more than the middle class but not a lot more- only a moderate amount. Basically all jobs would land people in the middle-upper class. There would be no upper 1%. This would not be allowed, the money would be taken from anyone who earns that much and redistributed through profit sharing or taxation.
#3, we are already prosperous. We are going downhill because the rich are greedy and hoarding all the resources. These super rich are building their empires on war money, oil money, and exploitative business models. IMO socialism would generally make all decisions for the good of all people, restructuring business models through wealth redistribution across the board.
 
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