Newb SCROG Setup / Pot Size Question

[T.C. Bosby]

The tent I'm using is 2.6 ft x 4 ft x 5 ft (just ordered it after flip flopping between different sizes).

The newbie in me wants to cram a million plants in there with fantasies of pounds of gorgeous bud rolling out. But I'm realistic and taking all advice I've gotten so far on this board seriously.

So, I've decided that I will go with a 2 plant SCROG. What size pot should I go with? I'd like to maximize my potential yield and my thoughts would be going with a larger pot, let's say 10 gallons. But I'm just guessing here. Any input would be much appreciated.

 

[nomofatum]

If you don't have clones to start with, I would go with more smaller plants. Find your keeper, clone it, then do the SCROG.

5 gallon DWC bucket will be hard to beat on yield in that size space.

 

[GreenThumbsMcgee]

depends on what medium you choose. If you are doing a soil grow, then using a 5, 7, or 10 gal. pot would do just fine. If you are looking at using coco coir then you would want a smaller pot. ( I use coco, and am in a 2.5 gal, works great)
If you are using soil and are going to use a bigger pot, remember to start it off in a smaller pot, and up pot it. Planting directly into a large pot not only wastes nutrients, but it slows your growth. Something about having the roots somewhat constricted keeps new growth at optimal conditions. I have tried to plant directly into large pots when growing auto strains, because they don't take well to transplanting. Growth was at a snails crawl, so even when growing auto-flowering strains, I start them out in a solo cup, or equivalent and transplant them as needed.
as for you wanting to cram pack your tent...i see how you would think that, but when you start adding more plants, you start crossing over into the SOG technique, rather than SCROG, even if there is a SCreen. remember, the point of scrogging is to utilize your entire canopy by using the screen to keep you plant opened up, and thus maximizing the amount of colas.
Hit me up if \you got anymore questions man, I am making a run of my first scrog as we speak, and i have done TONS of homework.

been vegging this Grape God for aprx. 7-8 weeks now, and I JUST flipped her today. Since this is my first scrog, I really dont know exactly what to expect, but judging from pics I have looked at from other growers, I think i am on point, and should be able to count on a hefty yeild. In the past I have always used LST as my main technique. Prety much the same concept, except I dont have to tie down EVERY new shoot with twist ties. That is why there are screws hanging out the side of my pot. I would just tie them down to the screws, and I had pretty good success using that method, but I kept seeing SCROG grows that were Just amazing, and the scrog grows were producing no larf bud, just all top shelf buds. The way i used to grow, I would get amazing yeilds. my last one was aprx 7 zips, but the difference is mine had about 3 oz of popcorn buds. This will be excluded when scrogging, so thats why I decided to give it a go. I have been growing for 3+ years, and kept putting off trying the scrog method for whatever reason, but now Its off and running.
Anyway, got off track some there. Hope that helps.
good luck and happy growing.
GTM

 

[T.C. Bosby]

If you don't have clones to start with, I would go with more smaller plants. Find your keeper, clone it, then do the SCROG.

5 gallon DWC bucket will be hard to beat on yield in that size space.

Any suggestions on who to go with for a DWC System? I was looking at a company/product called Root Spa (Note: I know DIY would save me money, but I am no handyman so I'm willing to pay a little extra.) Thanks!

 

[T.C. Bosby]

Given my space, if I went with Hydro (probably 5 gallon DWC), how many plants do you think would be appropriate?

 

[GreenThumbsMcgee]

Any suggestions on who to go with for a DWC System? I was looking at a company/product called Root Spa (Note: I know DIY would save me money, but I am no handyman so I'm willing to pay a little extra.) Thanks!

Def DIY man. You can do it. trust me. It is simple.

I am telling you, you CAN do it. you need to drill like one hole i believe.
and in a 2x4, using scrog technique, i would say, 2-4 buckets under your screen, but thats my guess, as i dont use DWC.

 

[GreenThumbsMcgee]

https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/96570/GROW-RS5GALSYS.html?utm_source=SmartFeedGoogleBase&utm_medium=Shopping&utm_term=GROW-RS5GALSYS&utm_content=Deep+Water+Culture+Systems&utm_campaign=SmartFeedGoogleBaseShopping&gclid=Cj0KEQjwt763BRDZx_Xg3-Pv2cABEiQAoDfeGEmartKYLpW3vxjLFFBnBDxBfu0fMpQ4a3_qLl4jCYQaAjKv8P8HAQ

on 2nd thought...heres one for $30, complete from 1000 bulbs. i actually like this style that spouts from the bottom better. Its easier to change nutrients and whatnot. Thing is, its hard to scrog with a DWC, since you cant move it at all once its in place. Something to consider.

 

[T.C. Bosby]

https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/96570/GROW-RS5GALSYS.html?utm_source=SmartFeedGoogleBase&utm_medium=Shopping&utm_term=GROW-RS5GALSYS&utm_content=Deep+Water+Culture+Systems&utm_campaign=SmartFeedGoogleBaseShopping&gclid=Cj0KEQjwt763BRDZx_Xg3-Pv2cABEiQAoDfeGEmartKYLpW3vxjLFFBnBDxBfu0fMpQ4a3_qLl4jCYQaAjKv8P8HAQ

on 2nd thought...heres one for $30, complete from 1000 bulbs. i actually like this style that spouts from the bottom better. Its easier to change nutrients and whatnot. Thing is, its hard to scrog with a DWC, since you cant move it at all once its in place. Something to consider.

Well, damn. That's a great point regarding DWC.

Now, I see you opened yourself up to questions, so I must exploit this opportunity.

1) In regards to coco coir, I thought it was a growing medium for hydro setups only (newb alert!). Can I use it as a replacement for soil in non-hydro setup?

2) You mention that you use a 2.5 gallon pot for your coco coir grow. Are you able to plant a clone in it and leave it as is (no transplanting needed)?

3) In a 2' x 4' tent, if going with coco coir, how many plants do you think is appropriate for a scrog?

4) And lastly (for the moment), what kind of light do you use? I've read a lot of fan fare of using LED lights in a scrog setup.

 

[nomofatum]

What do you have for seeds/clones to start with? If I were you I would start 6-8 plants in 3 gallon soil pots and give them very little veg time. Take clones of each plant. When the 6-8 plants are done, toss all clones except your favorite selections. Now that you have your winners you can place 2 cuttings into 5 gallon DWC buckets (no holes are required unless you are connecting the bucket to a rez/circulating system.) All you need is a 5 gallon bucket, a net pot lid, airline, aquarium pump, and an airstone. You can feed the air line down the holes in the side of the net pot lid before adding coco or hydroton.

My main point is, find good plants before you grow them big!

 

[T.C. Bosby]

What do you have for seeds/clones to start with? If I were you I would start 6-8 plants in 3 gallon soil pots and give them very little veg time. Take clones of each plant. When the 6-8 plants are done, toss all clones except your favorite selections. Now that you have your winners you can place 2 cuttings into 5 gallon DWC buckets (no holes are required unless you are connecting the bucket to a rez/circulating system.) All you need is a 5 gallon bucket, a net pot lid, airline, aquarium pump, and an airstone. You can feed the air line down the holes in the side of the net pot lid before adding coco or hydroton.

My main point is, find good plants before you grow them big!

A friend of mine who grows will be setting me up with OG Kush clones.

 

[nomofatum]

A friend of mine who grows will be setting me up with OG Kush clones.

Depending on the cut, OG can be a bit of a pain, especially for SCROG. They like to grow long viney vertical branches...

You should probably go with 2 plants if doing SCROG with 5 gallon DWC.

 

[GreenThumbsMcgee]

haha...too funny on the newb alert comment. No worries man, I enjoy helping.
So, first off, I want to say that I am not trying to steer you away from DWC. Just pointing out all involved. I'm sure there is a simple fix to that problem, I just am not knowing of that answer.

1) In regards to coco coir, I thought it was a growing medium for hydro setups only (newb alert!). Can I use it as a replacement for soil in non-hydro setup?
Coco coir IS a hydro setup. Its considered a "hydro" medium. This is because you treat it completely different than soil. You water coco until you get runoff every feed, so ultimately the roots are surrounded by water a majority of the time when using coco. Coco retains oxygen much better than soil, so you are able to water it heavily, unlike if you were in soil, and watered like you did coco, you would have a sodden mess on your hands, and your plant would be drooping to high heaven. I gotta mention, you can't water your plant heavily like that until your root system has formed, otherwise, you will see signs of over-watering.

2) You mention that you use a 2.5 gallon pot for your coco coir grow. Are you able to plant a clone in it and leave it as is (no transplanting needed)?
Yes. You COULD if you wanted to, but I am going to suggest that you don't do that, as i mentioned above, the roots like the restriction of a smaller pot. It pushes them to grow more vigorously. You could do it though if you absolutely do not want to transplant. I was kind of scared to re-pot plants when i started, but it is no issue if you do it properly. just gotta finesse them babies!

3) In a 2' x 4' tent, if going with coco coir, how many plants do you think is appropriate for a scrog?
I would suggest using the same amount of plants, as if you were doing DWC, or coco. 2-4. I do one in my 2x2 tent.

4) And lastly (for the moment), what kind of light do you use? I've read a lot of fan fare of using LED lights in a scrog setup.
I have read the same things as you. I use a mixture of lighting, and i cant yet comment on if the mixture is where i want it, but i do believe i should have success, as I use a optic 120 (COB stlye LED) you wil have to look those up. they are a newer led tech, that is much simpler, and FAR more efficient then the LED of yesteryear. So I use the optic 120, and a Rocket Plasma LEP system. I got the plasma light for a good deal. Normally they run $1000 but i scored one for $300, so I couldnt refuse. I really cant find alot of info on them, as the price is too steep for anyone to use them! I do think i got a damn good setup, but only time will tell. I strongly suggest looking into COB lighting though. there is too many good things to list here, i would go on for pages.

hope that helps man.

 

[GreenThumbsMcgee]

If I were you I would start 6-8 plants in 3 gallon soil pots and give them very little veg time. Take clones of each plant. When the 6-8 plants are done, toss all clones except your favorite selections. Now that you have your winners you can place 2 cuttings into 5 gallon !

^^that is good advice IMO about doing a DWC... if you are going to start with soil. You got options man. Haha!

 

[nomofatum]

The optics on LEDs drives me nuts. For our purposes, any lens or reflector on a LED = loss of light. If you go LED, get bare CXB3590 or CXB3070 chips, no optics/lens, they are the most efficient light source currently available.

Hydro is more likely to end in failure the first run or two, so I would recommend you try running 1 hydro bucket and a couple of soil/soiless pots for your first run. Try filling half the space with DWC and half with soil/soiless to increase the likelihood of quality results from at least one plant.

 

[GreenThumbsMcgee]

The optics on LEDs drives me nuts. For our purposes, any lens or reflector on a LED = loss of light. If you go LED, get bare CXB3590 or CXB3070 chips, no optics/lens, they are the most efficient light source currently available.
.

I like the lens on mine. the penetration is amazing. this light uses vero 18's, and I wish it had the 29's. (I am in a 2x2 and so i dont mind losing a little of the spread)
I plan on making a DIY COB and am going to use the cree 3070's. w/out a lens.
definetley the most efficient out there.

 

[T.C. Bosby]

I like the lens on mine. the penetration is amazing. this light uses vero 18's, and I wish it had the 29's. (I am in a 2x2 and so i dont mind losing a little of the spread)
I plan on making a DIY COB and am going to use the cree 3070's. w/out a lens.
definetley the most efficient out there.

With a COB LED, how many watts would you recommend?

 

[nomofatum]

With a COB LED, how many watts would you recommend?

It depends on the efficiency of the LED. Honestly the easiest way to ensure you size your lighting correctly is to convert to lumens and size to 5000-7500 (higher if using CO2) lumens per square foot. Par watts would be even better, but par watts are only published for some light types.

 

[Dogenzengi]

Doesn't a lens remove some of the spectrum of light?

I know nothing about LED's, just reading the thread.
Bless,
DZ

 

[nomofatum]

Doesn't a lens remove some of the spectrum of light?

I know nothing about LED's, just reading the thread.
Bless,
DZ

Depends on the lens and what it's made of, but typically a lens will remove the UVB and part of the UVA portion (not applicable to most of the COBs as they put out no or almost no UVA/UVB)

Aside from UV light, a quality lens or reflector will cause 2-5% loss of total light output. It's more efficient to use a 2% loss reflector on the walls, especially with a directional light source like a LED.

 

[nomofatum]

Make sure you pick up a PH meter, a PPM meter, and calibration fluid for both. These are absolutely vital for DWC.

I honestly have to say I've had the best results with the yellow/red $10 PH meters, they have performed as well or better than most of the >$50 ones I have had in the past. Get 2 $10 ones and use them both all the time. Re-calibrate them when they don't agree, when you can't get them to match, it's time to replace one.

PH Meter (buy two):
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00N7432II

PPM Meter (buy one):
www.amazon.com/dp/B002C0A7ZY