Whats your favored NPK?

[Cajuncannabinoid]

What is your favored levels of NPK during each stage of growth?
Germination-if any (I do not, and also have a very odd or rare way of germination aparently)
Seedling- Me(7-4-10)
Flowering- Me(unknown as of now)
Final Stages of Flower- Me(unkown as of now)
Foliage Feeding- Me(.7-.5-.7)

All nutrients are organic. I am also open to recommendations and criticism.

 

[jafro daweedhound]

Hi
The three numbers that you are referring to for npk do not tell you how much of each of the three nutrients are in your plant food. They merely tell you what there ratio is in relation to each other.

One product that is 20-20-20 tells you that n /p /k are in equal quantities to each other

A second product may be 4-3-3 in that nitrogen is higher than the p /k amounts.

Where most people get confused is that example 2 may have 10 times more nitrogen than example 1. If it is that much stronger then the mixing instructions from the manufacturer will reflect that. so if some one says they use 20-20-20 with out knowing is it potassium nitrate or magnesium nitrate, ect and you actually under standing atomic weights, the ratios of each compound, there purity ect those three numbers may be misleading you.

In furtherance to this each strain can and will respond slightly different to feeding. in general higher N during veg, higher phosphorus during flower - every grower has a little different idea as to what works best - thing is different people have different specific growing conditions.

 

[Cajuncannabinoid]

wow that is extremely useful knowledge i was thinking the 7-4-10 was in regards to its concentration to the entire mixture. I will def remember this very very helpful post when purchasing my next batch of nutes.

 

[jeroly]

Hi
The three numbers that you are referring to for npk do not tell you how much of each of the three nutrients are in your plant food. They merely tell you what there ratio is in relation to each other.

One product that is 20-20-20 tells you that n /p /k are in equal quantities to each other

A second product may be 4-3-3 in that nitrogen is higher than the p /k amounts.

Where most people get confused is that example 2 may have 10 times more nitrogen than example 1. If it is that much stronger then the mixing instructions from the manufacturer will reflect that. so if some one says they use 20-20-20 with out knowing is it potassium nitrate or magnesium nitrate, ect and you actually under standing atomic weights, the ratios of each compound, there purity ect those three numbers may be misleading you.

In furtherance to this each strain can and will respond slightly different to feeding. in general higher N during veg, higher phosphorus during flower - every grower has a little different idea as to what works best - thing is different people have different specific growing conditions.

This is incorrect information.
Per Wikipedia,

The N value is the percentage of elemental nitrogen by weight in the fertilizer.​

In other words, a higher value indicate more of that kind of element. So 20-20-20 has twice as much of each of N, P, and K as a fertilizer that's 10-10-10.

However, if you use twice as much of the 10-10-10, you're providing the plant with the exact same amount as if you used 20-20-20. So the important thing is the ratio combined with knowing the EC/ tds. In veg you want higher N relative to P and K, for example.

 

[papa canna]

If npk are just ratios can't someone explain why nutrients would be labeled 10-10-10 when they could just be 1-1-1 and get the same point across?

 

[Alienwidow]

Hi
The three numbers that you are referring to for npk do not tell you how much of each of the three nutrients are in your plant food. They merely tell you what there ratio is in relation to each other.

One product that is 20-20-20 tells you that n /p /k are in equal quantities to each other

A second product may be 4-3-3 in that nitrogen is higher than the p /k amounts.

Where most people get confused is that example 2 may have 10 times more nitrogen than example 1. If it is that much stronger then the mixing instructions from the manufacturer will reflect that. so if some one says they use 20-20-20 with out knowing is it potassium nitrate or magnesium nitrate, ect and you actually under standing atomic weights, the ratios of each compound, there purity ect those three numbers may be misleading you.

In furtherance to this each strain can and will respond slightly different to feeding. in general higher N during veg, higher phosphorus during flower - every grower has a little different idea as to what works best - thing is different people have different specific growing conditions.

Well thats why you use liquid nutes with gaurenteed values.

 

[jafro daweedhound]

If npk are just ratios can't someone explain why nutrients would be labeled 10-10-10 when they could just be 1-1-1 and get the same point across?

When raw materials are formulated into "Nutrients with Guaranteed Analysis" atomic weights are used for the formulation of nutrients (powdered or liquid/ organic or inorganic same thing) These numbers are confusing but are the best indication short of bringing a chemist with you the next time you need some new nutrients from the store....10-10-10 or 1-1-1 will have varying amounts of filler, such as; water ( in liquid nutrients) , clays (in powdered time release nutrients) are two examples. The actual inerts are not usually revealed. The 1-1-1 may in fact contain more nutrients than the 10-10-10. comparing apples to oranges quality to crap.
As Allienwidow said, "Well that's why you use liquid nutes with guaranteed values." That's why I do to. Good food all the way to crappy food - use the same method to give you the nutrient analysis. Stick with a good source that you trust. Use the directions as your guide to mixing and feeding.
I ve tried to keep this simple as not to require a degree to figure out what im saying

When I started using hydroponics we couldn't buy nutrients premade. We had to make our own.
Start with potassium nitrate , calcium nitrate, magnesium sulfate, ammonia nitrate, chelating agent, trace elements ect,ect ,ect. I couldn't call up company X and get instructions, as like computers, they just didn't exist for some underground grower. I had to use atomic weights to figure this out and/ or risk killing my crop. Now a days we just go down and buy some jugs of "nuts with guaranteed analysis" follow the directions and we are growers. This is so much easier and the N-P-K numbers are an indication of the relationship between these various compounds to make things easier for the consumer.
"i need a food with high nitrogen" - well get the 51-0-0 as an example ( full of nitrogen, no phosphorus or potassium - and lots of inert fillers too.)
In furtherance to the above example it doesn't tell you the source of nitrogen which may be a factor of importance. Nitrate nitrogen is quit different than ammonia nitrate- but both make up the number for "N'. Both are important forms of nitrogen - but used for different purposes within the plants system.

Hope this helps - don't read too much into it - go grow some herbs and have fun

Peace and Pot

 

[jafro daweedhound]

This is incorrect information.
Per Wikipedia,

Howard M Resh Ph.D. book entitled Hydroponic Food Production. Learn it and we can talk. It is used in universities usually in 3 or 4 year botany courses. Then you can go correct Wikipedia for the next guy.
A little information can be a dangerous thing.
Thanks

 

[Dr. Who]

A ratio of 3-1-2 is very popular from start to finish.....2-1-1 (12-6-6 at half strength) was mine for veg and bloom was rather a "fluid" situation.

I don't use liquid ferts anymore......Water only organic soils........Took awhile to get what I wanted out of it but, once you have it dialed in - LOOK OUT.......

 

[superbak3d]

I run 2-10-5 (actual value) for flower. 2-1-1 for veg

At week 6 I'll double up the PK and do 0-30-20 or 0-25-15.

After that I go back to an organic 0-0-0 tea and raw sugar feed to restore the lost microbial life from the high PK dosage. I do this until harvest.

 

[RM3]

I use a 2-1-2 ratio for veg and 1-2-3 ratio for flower

 

[superbak3d]

If npk are just ratios can't someone explain why nutrients would be labeled 10-10-10 when they could just be 1-1-1 and get the same point across?

Because those numbers represent % available per full dosage, per gallon.

The higher the value the more concentrated the amount.

If a 10-10-10 nutrient was labelled as 1-1-1, you can see why it would cause some issues when a grower is mixing nutrients.

It's vital to know the exact % of available NPK

 

[green_gorilla]

If npk are just ratios can't someone explain why nutrients would be labeled 10-10-10 when they could just be 1-1-1 and get the same point across?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labeling_of_fertilizer#Converting_nutrient_analysis_to_composition

http://chemicalland21.com/industrialchem/inorganic/NPK.htm

http://www.convertunits.com/molarmass/K2O

With phosphorus derived from p2o5, and potassium derived from k2o:
1-1-1 = 1% elemental nitrogen, .4% elemental phosphorus, .8% elemental potassium
10-10-10 = 10% elemental nitrogen, 4% elemental phosphorus, 8% elemental potassium

This could be right... I imagine someone will chime in eventually.
In any event the difference between 1-1-1-, and 10-10-10 is the concentration of available nutrients.

 

[jafro daweedhound]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labeling_of_fertilizer#Converting_nutrient_analysis_to_composition

http://chemicalland21.com/industrialchem/inorganic/NPK.htm

Thanks for those links

Another example is when you take your food whatever the ratio is between n/p/k and add it to your reservoir you will still have the same N/P/K ratio, but now its mixed into 100 gallons of water or what ever size your reservoir is. the ratio is the same. The concentrations/strength /TDS has changed.

 

[jeroly]

Howard M Resh Ph.D. book entitled Hydroponic Food Production. Learn it and we can talk. It is used in universities usually in 3 or 4 year botany courses. Then you can go correct Wikipedia for the next guy.
A little information can be a dangerous thing.
Thanks

http://www.learn2grow.com/gardeningguides/fertilizer/basics/understandingfertilizernumbers.aspx
http://www.michigan.gov/mdard/0,4610,7-125-1569_16993_19405-49343--,00.html

Learn the facts, and then you can talk something other than nonsense.

20-20-20 is not the same as 10-10-10. It contains 20% of each of N, P, and K, whereas 10-10-10 contains 10% of each by weight.
Have you ever seen 1000-1000-1000 fertilizer?
Ever wonder why not?
If it was just a question of ratios then everybody that's listing their fertilizer NPK would make the numbers as big as possible.
I don't know whether this Resh guy you cite actually wrote the BS you're quoting or whether you just can't parse textual information, but neither case makes it true.

 

[jeroly]

When raw materials are formulated into "Nutrients with Guaranteed Analysis" atomic weights are used for the formulation of nutrients (powdered or liquid/ organic or inorganic same thing) These numbers are confusing but are the best indication short of bringing a chemist with you the next time you need some new nutrients from the store....10-10-10 or 1-1-1 will have varying amounts of filler, such as; water ( in liquid nutrients) , clays (in powdered time release nutrients) are two examples. The actual inerts are not usually revealed. The 1-1-1 may in fact contain more nutrients than the 10-10-10. comparing apples to oranges quality to crap.
As Allienwidow said, "Well that's why you use liquid nutes with guaranteed values." That's why I do to. Good food all the way to crappy food - use the same method to give you the nutrient analysis. Stick with a good source that you trust. Use the directions as your guide to mixing and feeding.
I ve tried to keep this simple as not to require a degree to figure out what im saying

When I started using hydroponics we couldn't buy nutrients premade. We had to make our own.
Start with potassium nitrate , calcium nitrate, magnesium sulfate, ammonia nitrate, chelating agent, trace elements ect,ect ,ect. I couldn't call up company X and get instructions, as like computers, they just didn't exist for some underground grower. I had to use atomic weights to figure this out and/ or risk killing my crop. Now a days we just go down and buy some jugs of "nuts with guaranteed analysis" follow the directions and we are growers. This is so much easier and the N-P-K numbers are an indication of the relationship between these various compounds to make things easier for the consumer.
"i need a food with high nitrogen" - well get the 51-0-0 as an example ( full of nitrogen, no phosphorus or potassium - and lots of inert fillers too.)
In furtherance to the above example it doesn't tell you the source of nitrogen which may be a factor of importance. Nitrate nitrogen is quit different than ammonia nitrate- but both make up the number for "N'. Both are important forms of nitrogen - but used for different purposes within the plants system.

Hope this helps - don't read too much into it - go grow some herbs and have fun

Peace and Pot

The reason one would sanely choose liquid nutrients is because they're already dissolved and ready to use, and in the case of cannabis preformulated for specificity of cannabis' veg or flowering needs, not because they're richer in nutrients.

The 1-1-1 contains 1/10th of the nutrients of the 10-10-10 as defined by the supply of nitrogen, phosphate, and potash, not more.

 

[jeroly]

If npk are just ratios can't someone explain why nutrients would be labeled 10-10-10 when they could just be 1-1-1 and get the same point across?

They're not and you can't without making things up like jafro is doing.