stunned veg in Ebb and grow

[ligrow]

Good day guys,

Im grow 11 plants in 7 liter ebb and grow system.
under 2 600watt MH at 75%
This is my first grow with this ebb system. I got my plant stunned, and even throw one out.

Flood 15mins for every 3 hours. straight hydroton
maxibloom with tap water

I set EC 0.7 when I put those clones in system. they were like 2-3 inches tall.
then it showed brown on top of fan leaves. I post on plant problem forum. someone told me my EC was too high. I flush my system for one day, and cut my nutrient to EC 0.3. its about a week now, problem still there.
as you can see in the pic below.

I set my res PH 5.5 and it rise to 6.3 in less than three day.
is that normal? I dont have PH rise this quick when growing DWC

I also found something got my hydroton white. as pic below
What is that? is that a sign of salt build up?

When I change my res, fill with EC 0 tap water. I still have EC 0.2.
I guess its some nutrient that left in the buckets that have it rise
how do you actually flush when in ebb and grow system?

I also put another pump in the res keep nutrient mix it up and having more oxygen in water stead of airstone.
Do I really need to put more oxygen in the res? I realized pump in the res operate 24/7 also have the my res temp a little higher.

Pls leave some feedback if you know how to deal with it
much appreciate and happy grow

 

[SSampsy]

Good day guys,

Im grow 11 plants in 7 liter ebb and grow system.
under 2 600watt MH at 75%
This is my first grow with this ebb system. I got my plant stunned, and even throw one out.

Flood 15mins for every 3 hours. straight hydroton
maxibloom with tap water

I set EC 0.7 when I put those clones in system. they were like 2-3 inches tall.
then it showed brown on top of fan leaves. I post on plant problem forum. someone told me my EC was too high. I flush my system for one day, and cut my nutrient to EC 0.3. its about a week now, problem still there.
as you can see in the pic below.

I set my res PH 5.5 and it rise to 6.3 in less than three day.
is that normal? I dont have PH rise this quick when growing DWC

I also found something got my hydroton white. as pic below
What is that? is that a sign of salt build up?

When I change my res, fill with EC 0 tap water. I still have EC 0.2.
I guess its some nutrient that left in the buckets that have it rise
how do you actually flush when in ebb and grow system?

I also put another pump in the res keep nutrient mix it up and having more oxygen in water stead of airstone.
Do I really need to put more oxygen in the res? I realized pump in the res operate 24/7 also have the my res temp a little higher.

Pls leave some feedback if you know how to deal with it
much appreciate and happy grow

idk why i can open your pics but it won't let me but if its like almost chalky white stuff its prob just dried salt. i use flood trays with hydroton but i only flood once every 6 hours and my mothers are fully mature. i am thinking about switch to every 4 hours though but could you be overwatering? which could be fucking with the roots which could then be fuckin with the PH? I couldn't give you a definitive answer on that though....and are you saying you have a water pump going 24/7 to keep the water moving instead of an airstone? only time i put a water pump in my res is when i first mix my nutes, other than that i use 2 air stones in a 22 gal res also i also add 29% h2o2 like 125ml every 3 days as a preventative

 

[ligrow]

idk why i can open your pics but it won't let me but if its like almost chalky white stuff its prob just dried salt. i use flood trays with hydroton but i only flood once every 6 hours and my mothers are fully mature. i am thinking about switch to every 4 hours though but could you be overwatering? which could be fucking with the roots which could then be fuckin with the PH? I couldn't give you a definitive answer on that though....and are you saying you have a water pump going 24/7 to keep the water moving instead of an airstone? only time i put a water pump in my res is when i first mix my nutes, other than that i use 2 air stones in a 22 gal res also i also add 29% h2o2 like 125ml every 3 days as a preventative

Thanks for your feedback.
just took some pics. They are still not getting well.
but I can see white root coming out of the inner bucket from the bottom



sometimes when I chick on pics it dont show nothing either.
Do yoi have to worry about dried salt?

I think about over water at first, then I cut my flood time from every 3 hrs to 5 hr for 15 mins.
It didnt get better, and I think about over feed. I cut my EC from 0.7 to 0.3 with 24 hrs flush.
didnt help either.
I wonder if I did not flush it properly. because when I change res to EC 0 tap water. I still got EC 0.2 when it mix with the nutrient that left in the buckets. I am now thinking flush it for a couple days to see if it gets better. how do you flush when in Ebb and grow?

I found every time It flood, it drain back with ph a bit higher. (around 0.5)

I heard its not necessary to put air stones in ebb system?
The reason I go with another small pump its I heard I does the same job as air stone, and I can have my res mix all the time. I also heard air stone can cause algae or some kind of shit like that.

 

[ligrow]

Any feedbacks still welcome
thanks guys!!

 

[VegasWinner]

What is your reservoir temps ? Pump running 24/7 could raise water temps. Peace

 

[ligrow]

What is your reservoir temps ? Pump running 24/7 could raise water temps. Peace

Thanks for the feedback
My res is around 24C. I use a bit h2o2 every three or four day.
Do you think its the res temp cause my plants stress?

 

[SSampsy]

Thanks for your feedback.
just took some pics. They are still not getting well.
but I can see white root coming out of the inner bucket from the bottom
View attachment 3656856
View attachment 3656861
View attachment 3656860
sometimes when I chick on pics it dont show nothing either.
Do yoi have to worry about dried salt?

I think about over water at first, then I cut my flood time from every 3 hrs to 5 hr for 15 mins.
It didnt get better, and I think about over feed. I cut my EC from 0.7 to 0.3 with 24 hrs flush.
didnt help either.
I wonder if I did not flush it properly. because when I change res to EC 0 tap water. I still got EC 0.2 when it mix with the nutrient that left in the buckets. I am now thinking flush it for a couple days to see if it gets better. how do you flush when in Ebb and grow?

I found every time It flood, it drain back with ph a bit higher. (around 0.5)

I heard its not necessary to put air stones in ebb system?
The reason I go with another small pump its I heard I does the same job as air stone, and I can have my res mix all the time. I also heard air stone can cause algae or some kind of shit like that.

Nah dried salt should be fine aslong as it isn't drying on the roots but your e.c is still going up because you didn't flush enough. you should keep replacing your water till the e.c is zero if flushing is what you want to do and to flush you do what you did, just add r.o water, let it flood/rinse and keep replacing the water till it comes back around 0ppm or <50ppm.... and your temps could be a problem too you might want to consider a chiller (or use icepacks or something or just get rid of the water pump) to bring the temp down... you're prob gonna need one by summer time anyway if your temps are that high already in april and idk who told you that pump thing but airstones are literally pumping oxygen into the res (al b fuct says the airstone can make quite the difference) theres a reason people use air pumps instead of water pumps and another good thing is if your res is smaller then you can put your air pump somewhere cold and let it pump cool air into your res to help keep the temp lower. id use the water pump to mix nutes, not to replace an air stone. plus your dissolved oxygen is already higher than it should be because how high the temps are so a stone would def help plus your temps would go down if you took the pump out of there and airstones aint gonna add algae if you're using h2o2 (id use more like every 2.5-3 days to be sure no algae grows) I'm actually one the look out for a better alternative than h2o2 because how quick it wears out

 

[toaster struedel]

how many gallon is your res? whats your tap water ppm and ph? salt build up that early i bet your water is hard. a bigger res like 40 gallon will keep your water temps down and ph more stable. you definately wanna keep an airstone is your res because the warmer the temps the less oxygen will be available. also im not a big fan of h2o2 something along the line of hydro guard worx wonders for healthy roots.

 

[ligrow]

Nah dried salt should be fine aslong as it isn't drying on the roots but your e.c is still going up because you didn't flush enough. you should keep replacing your water till the e.c is zero if flushing is what you want to do and to flush you do what you did, just add r.o water, let it flood/rinse and keep replacing the water till it comes back around 0ppm or <50ppm.... and your temps could be a problem too you might want to consider a chiller (or use icepacks or something or just get rid of the water pump) to bring the temp down... you're prob gonna need one by summer time anyway if your temps are that high already in april and idk who told you that pump thing but airstones are literally pumping oxygen into the res (al b fuct says the airstone can make quite the difference) theres a reason people use air pumps instead of water pumps and another good thing is if your res is smaller then you can put your air pump somewhere cold and let it pump cool air into your res to help keep the temp lower. id use the water pump to mix nutes, not to replace an air stone. plus your dissolved oxygen is already higher than it should be because how high the temps are so a stone would def help plus your temps would go down if you took the pump out of there and airstones aint gonna add algae if you're using h2o2 (id use more like every 2.5-3 days to be sure no algae grows) I'm actually one the look out for a better alternative than h2o2 because how quick it wears out

Do I actually need to use RO water? I grow in DWC with GH flora two part without much problem.
This is my first run use ebb buckets and maxibloom as my based nutrients.

Do you mean I have to change res more then once when flush?
Thats a lot of work...is there any way that I can have my system flush without change res more then one time?
I think I might need three or four res change to get my EC at 0...

I was think not using chiller this summer, I will have window A/C blowing in the room.
Hopefully just some frozen bottle will do the job. I know DWC like somewhere around 19C.
Whats the idea res temp when in ebb system?

I am sure I will put some air stones res!

thanks for the knowledge you share.
much appreciated!

how many gallon is your res? whats your tap water ppm and ph? salt build up that early i bet your water is hard. a bigger res like 40 gallon will keep your water temps down and ph more stable. you definately wanna keep an airstone is your res because the warmer the temps the less oxygen will be available. also im not a big fan of h2o2 something along the line of hydro guard worx wonders for healthy roots.

Thanks for the feedback

my res is around 35 gallon.
tap water EC 0 , PH 7.0
As i know my city water shouldnt be hard water, but i am not 100% sure tho

I will put airstone in the res for sure.
I still having problem when using hydro guard in my previous grow.
I have also tried bleach, h2o2. I think they all work for me.
How do you use hydro guard? like the amount you add? how often?

 

[ligrow]

some quick shot that I just took



I change out one of my MH to COB LED light two days ago
some of my plants showing brown spot, and have some burn on the leaves in a night.
pls check out the pics, and share with me what would you do if its your grow.
thanks and happy grow

 

[toaster struedel]

i use 2ml hydro guard per gallon, and i add it every time i change my nutes. i dont use a chiller but i do use frozen 2 liter bottles, a frozen bottle will drop my 40 gal rez 3 degrees so i drop one in at lights on and another right before lights out. it keeps my temps around 66-68 f

 

[Skylander]

Have you checked your root zone? Looks like root rot. I used bucket systems before and my plants would look very similar around bloom phase. The roots would sit in water 24/7. I hope thats not the case but check it out.

 

[SSampsy]

Do I actually need to use RO water? I grow in DWC with GH flora two part without much problem.
This is my first run use ebb buckets and maxibloom as my based nutrients.

Do you mean I have to change res more then once when flush?
Thats a lot of work...is there any way that I can have my system flush without change res more then one time?
I think I might need three or four res change to get my EC at 0...

I was think not using chiller this summer, I will have window A/C blowing in the room.
Hopefully just some frozen bottle will do the job. I know DWC like somewhere around 19C.
Whats the idea res temp when in ebb system?

I am sure I will put some air stones res!

thanks for the knowledge you share.
much appreciated!


Thanks for the feedback

my res is around 35 gallon.
tap water EC 0 , PH 7.0
As i know my city water shouldnt be hard water, but i am not 100% sure tho

I will put airstone in the res for sure.
I still having problem when using hydro guard in my previous grow.
I have also tried bleach, h2o2. I think they all work for me.
How do you use hydro guard? like the amount you add? how often?

No you don't have to use r.o but you prob should to flush since the whole point is to bring the ppm down and yeah it is a pain in the ass to flush thats why we try to make it so we don't have too in the first place. you could just try rinsing/hanwatering from the top. the also have flushing products you can look into but yeah whatever works to keep the temps down and really the best temp is the lowest temp... but def 70 or less, 60-68 from what I've read as water holds more oxygen the colder it is and your less likely to get pythium and other bacterial and fungal problems but yeah def get the airstone and try to put the airpump in the coldest place possible to blow cold air into the res and also taking out the water pump should drop the temp some too. goodluck

 

[ligrow]

i use 2ml hydro guard per gallon, and i add it every time i change my nutes. i dont use a chiller but i do use frozen 2 liter bottles, a frozen bottle will drop my 40 gal rez 3 degrees so i drop one in at lights on and another right before lights out. it keeps my temps around 66-68 f

How often do you change nutes? I change it around three weeks, Does it last that long? I have one right now, but I got it better by using bleach and h2o2. I hope I can have my res cold enough without using chiller.
thanks for sharing your experienced. have a nice day

Have you checked your root zone? Looks like root rot. I used bucket systems before and my plants would look very similar around bloom phase. The roots would sit in water 24/7. I hope thats not the case but check it out.

Thanks for the feedback!
I dont think there is any root rot. I have healthy white root came out of inner bucket on the bottom.
Im also curious why my plants get stunned upper side, but strong on root zone.
I read some thread about ebb bucket system, some ppl mentioned they dont even have root came out of inner bucket when finished.

How did you do to deal with root rot issue that i had?
Why you using bucket system and have the roots in water 24/7? is that DWC bucket?
I used DWC before, I never have my root zone 100% healthy. I heard its less root rot issue in ebb system, because root is not in water all the time. Still trying to figure out how to deal with my def. tho..

No you don't have to use r.o but you prob should to flush since the whole point is to bring the ppm down and yeah it is a pain in the ass to flush thats why we try to make it so we don't have too in the first place. you could just try rinsing/hanwatering from the top. the also have flushing products you can look into but yeah whatever works to keep the temps down and really the best temp is the lowest temp... but def 70 or less, 60-68 from what I've read as water holds more oxygen the colder it is and your less likely to get pythium and other bacterial and fungal problems but yeah def get the airstone and try to put the airpump in the coldest place possible to blow cold air into the res and also taking out the water pump should drop the temp some too. goodluck

Thanks for all the detail!
I will put some air stones in the res tonite. I will see what the res temp would be when A/C on. Dont want do run another chiller as it also exhaust heat from the back, which will my A/C have to operate more to have the room cold enough.
btw its window unit, I cool the room, and have exhaust and intake on tent to have the air exchange in and out.
res is sitting out side of the tent, so does chiller if I really need it. I heard can have couple degree higher by using hydro guard. Hope I can just have some frozen bottles and some hydro guard or h2o2.

so...back to my topic...
Do you guys think its res temp too have cause this def.?
I thought when temp too hight in res, always seeing unhealthy root first. I have healthy milky white roots came out from the bottom of inner buckets. that means that I am not having rot on roots zone right?
this really bother me day and night. not sure if I need another flush or what I have to do to deal with it
Any feedbacks still welcome!
really appreciated that and happy grow

 

[toaster struedel]

Nute changes should be done every 7-10 days so nothing bad will grow in your Rez.

 

[SSampsy]

ow often do you change nutes? I change it around three weeks, Does it last that long?

That prob your problem right there... unless you're topping off the res with nutes you should be replacing your res water every 1-2 weeks or once you add back the same amount of water in your res (if you have 22 gal res, once you've used 22gal to top off replace the res water)

I dont think there is any root rot. I have healthy white root came out of inner bucket on the bottom.

then you prob don't



res is sitting out side of the tent, so does chiller if I really need it. I heard can have couple degree higher by using hydro guard. Hope I can just have some frozen bottles and some hydro guard or h2o2.

that is true there are products like h2o2 that let you keep temps higher

so...back to my topic...
Do you guys think its res temp too have cause this def.?

no. unless its messing with your roots, then the consequence of bad roots would be bad uptake which could lead to deficiency looking problems. are you using shitty nutes? are you shaking them and using them as directed?

I thought when temp too hight in res, always seeing unhealthy root first. I have healthy milky white roots came out from the bottom of inner buckets. that means that I am not having rot on roots zone right?

i doubt its root rot if roots look as healthy as you say. if it makes you feel better just keep flushing with r.o till you get less than 50 ppm then start over feeding them

 

[ligrow]

ow often do you change nutes? I change it around three weeks, Does it last that long?

That prob your problem right there... unless you're topping off the res with nutes you should be replacing your res water every 1-2 weeks or once you add back the same amount of water in your res (if you have 22 gal res, once you've used 22gal to top off replace the res water)

I dont think there is any root rot. I have healthy white root came out of inner bucket on the bottom.

then you prob don't



res is sitting out side of the tent, so does chiller if I really need it. I heard can have couple degree higher by using hydro guard. Hope I can just have some frozen bottles and some hydro guard or h2o2.

that is true there are products like h2o2 that let you keep temps higher

so...back to my topic...
Do you guys think its res temp too have cause this def.?

no. unless its messing with your roots, then the consequence of bad roots would be bad uptake which could lead to deficiency looking problems. are you using shitty nutes? are you shaking them and using them as directed?

I thought when temp too hight in res, always seeing unhealthy root first. I have healthy milky white roots came out from the bottom of inner buckets. that means that I am not having rot on roots zone right?

i doubt its root rot if roots look as healthy as you say. if it makes you feel better just keep flushing with r.o till you get less than 50 ppm then start over feeding them

That prob your problem right there... unless you're topping off the res with nutes you should be replacing your res water every 1-2 weeks or once you add back the same amount of water in your res (if you have 22 gal res, once you've used 22gal to top off replace the res water)

---I put 10 gal more then my system need. I thought this can replace the top off work that you just mentioned.

no. unless its messing with your roots, then the consequence of bad roots would be bad uptake which could lead to deficiency looking problems. are you using shitty nutes? are you shaking them and using them as directed?

--- I am using GH maxibloom, I mix it up with water first them add it to res. I think I will have ot flush again since I can not sure what exactly my problem is.

once again thank for your time, sharing your experienced.

 

[Skylander]

Thats good news! No root rot I mean. I just had a poorly designed bucket system. It left close to 2 inches of standing water after each flood cycle is why I said 24/7. I had bad experiences with two bucket systems actually. One had a inner bucket design and the other used smart pots with a 2 inch insert at the bottom. The roots grew through the holes in the bottom of the inner bucket and the smart pot particularly in the bloom stage when the roots really took off so I would have nice healthy plants until bloom stage. Now I use a 20 gallon tote with a 10 gallon smart pot on top using a top feed ring(see the Capns Corner). I used rockwool cubes for my media which is great if you properly prepare it. With the top feed I also have no salt build up. After changing my configuration and beefing up my beneficial bacteria game I saw great results.I still use the 55 gaI res and controller that came with my first system. I had a 808 headband with a stalk almost three inches. I have to leave two weeks at a time for my job and Ive found this setup is solid for my situation. However, if you are not having my problems then no need to spend the money.

 

[ligrow]

@Skylander Thanks for all the detail.
My system have some design to avoid water left in the buckets. I think about top feed too. this is my first time grow in ebb system. If regular flood and drain can have the job done, should be easier for me( my location is not hydro friendly, have to get most of my supplies oversea)
I wonder how to use smart pot growing in ebb bucket? whats the benefit of it?
would like to know that, because I have some smart pot that I bought it wrong...
Do you use straight rockwool? isnt that holding too much water? I flood once a day in your from veg to finished?



I just took some quick shot of roots and upper side. I think it shows some other symptoms. some random brown spot on leaves, also look burn or some scratch on the surface of leaves. as my pics show.

I flush again last night. Still unsure how to deal with it.
Any more helps or feedbacks still welcome!
really appreciated you guys feedback
happy grow

 

[Skylander]

Google oxygen pot systems... That is the system I used last until switching to the capn's grow method. As far as rockwool holding too much water... that is almost impossible unless you compress it too much ie. mash it together taking away its porosity. When using rockwool I flood every 3 hours during during day cycle. Never had a problem with over watering. Are you using a Cal/Mag supplement? Thats the only other thing that I can think of at this point. With my setup I found that any 3 part or 2 part with cal/mag (because I use ro water) alone is enough to get great results. I change my res whenever my ppm begins to rise or two week max whichever comes first. Because I use a 55 gal res if my ppm raises within a 2 weeks I just add water to dilute my nutrients prevent wasting nutrients. I have a chiller keeping my res at 65 degrees with six large airstones.