Top bin COB comparison 2
- Thread starter robincnn
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Sativied
Well-Known Member
Since you've been so receptive of my reply...
Correct me if I'm wrong but they seem to be roughly half the price of cree cxb. $10 led (well, if you buy 42) at 700ma puts out more light than I have in my germ/clone/preveg cabinet... (Only 54-72 watt but is on 18/24 hours a day, 365 days a week).
What's the lowest forward current in practice for these? 350 possible?
350ma, 35.9Vf = 12.565 watt, 2278lumen = 181lumen per watt the fuck?
Obviously the total lumen is a little hard to get from the graph but even with a margin that is quite a difference. Not just from relatively more lumens from lowering the current, but to reach that lower current relatively less voltage is required, lowering the wattage and thus raising lum/watt in two ways. Again, according to the Vf - Vc graphs in the pdf, I frankly have no idea how that second way works but the graph pretty clear on it.
Going by that graph Vf, 700ma, 37.5Vf = 26.25 watts, 4288 lumen = 163.5lum/watt. Nice...
Correct me if I'm wrong but they seem to be roughly half the price of cree cxb. $10 led (well, if you buy 42) at 700ma puts out more light than I have in my germ/clone/preveg cabinet... (Only 54-72 watt but is on 18/24 hours a day, 365 days a week).
What's the lowest forward current in practice for these? 350 possible?
350ma, 35.9Vf = 12.565 watt, 2278lumen = 181lumen per watt the fuck?
Obviously the total lumen is a little hard to get from the graph but even with a margin that is quite a difference. Not just from relatively more lumens from lowering the current, but to reach that lower current relatively less voltage is required, lowering the wattage and thus raising lum/watt in two ways. Again, according to the Vf - Vc graphs in the pdf, I frankly have no idea how that second way works but the graph pretty clear on it.
absolutely
caretak3r
Well-Known Member
I couldn't find a spectrum graph for that model. Do you have one?
Malocan
Well-Known Member
Hello Growmau5
i asked once supraspl about this pink chips and he told they are not as efficent like cxb. i have a pdf about this chips from citizen, i will post it in a 1min.
Here i found the pdf
well in that pdf citizen is still "promoting" blurple style spectrums, which we know is nonsense.
note their discussion about "active ppf" .....
BuddyColas
Well-Known Member
Being as your looking at Citizen cobs...check out the "Is this a Vero killer?" thread and the link to a Citizen design spreadsheet. Super cheap at $12.55 and efficient on the CLU048-1212 in 3K 70cri. Just saying.
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Malocan
Well-Known Member
you guys in america are really lucky with cdiweb.com they offer really cheap the citizen cobs. in germany the only option(which i know) to buy them is digikey.de
Facking digikey.de is mega expensive, i have to pay for this chip (CLU048-1212 in 3K 70cri) 25euros without tax (tax=19%)
BuddyColas
Well-Known Member
Ouch! The same premium on Cree and Vero?
Malocan
Well-Known Member
i dont know about vero:/, but cree is too expensive in compare to jerry. i buy my cree chips from jerry.
one CXB3590-0000-000N0HCD35G cost at digikey.de 57euro(without tax) and at mouser.de it cost 59euro(without tax).
In germany/europa we are facked, but thanks to jerry and cutter im happy
one CXB3590-0000-000N0HCD35G cost at digikey.de 57euro(without tax) and at mouser.de it cost 59euro(without tax).
In germany/europa we are facked, but thanks to jerry and cutter im happy
Sativied
Well-Known Member
http://www.tme.eu/en/katalog/white-power-leds-cob_113365/#id_category=113365&page=1&products_only_new[]=on&products_only_new[]=on&s_field=artykul&s_order=ASC&visible_params=2,1088,754,1113,1096,1102,1101,120,1110,2456&used_params=2:52558;1110:355676;
Haven't actually checked where they ship but .eu site, located in Poland, supports german language... should be good. $12.50 when buying 9+, $15.63 per piece. Only problem..., not in stock, takes 7 weeks...
Malocan
Well-Known Member
thanks for the tip
, i will check that out
BOBBY_G
Well-Known Member
is it? are there any studies side by side on cobs vs newer HQ blurple tech cause i havent seen anything like that....
Abiqua
Well-Known Member
Thinking out loud here....it would be nice to try out some of my piddly yielding on a consistent basis under good ole white light [3k,3.5k, 4k] and put them under something like @PSUAGRO. 's past phillips blurple Rig. ...
Will those strains be the strain dependent one's....? I wish I could find out
another thing, since we haven't even dipped two toes into the chemotype pool yet...all this light bickering over a spectrum is still just pissin in the river....for now...maybe the pee is different colored, but how spectrum affects chemotype and when that chemotype becomes properly intepreted.....is hardly understood.
its called the McCree curve, which completely undermines the blurple theories which are based on the absorption of algae in a test tube, instead of what light actually drive photosynthesis.
photons are photons within PPF range, what tech is used to create the photons is irrelevant ( of course except for raw efficiency).
Greengenes707
Well-Known Member
And your idea of efficiency=photons across the range is accurate?
Photons are photons is far more accurate than efficiency = photons.
I suggest a googleing of "energy per photon" or something along those lines.
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Sativied
Well-Known Member
A lot has changed since Engelmann 1882.
Not looking to argue white cob spectrum, I pull enough from the cheap electricity I use and the main thing that makes led attractive for me is the spectrum control. It's like with NPK (and Ca Mg etc) ratios. You can grow cannabis on a wide range of different NPK ratios but some are better than others, and some elements can push the expression of desirable traits.
I do agree there's more to it, McCrees action spectra were primarily for field crops too, which is why a lot of research has and is being done to determine optimal action spectra for modern greenhouse crops and not just per plant species but even different cultivars as there are significant differences. Absorption and efficiency is measured in numerous different ways, directly real time on live plants. Using amongst others a modified Licor Li6400, photos at different wavelenghts, measuring photosyntate, desired structure and characteristics, quality and yield. Determining the most suitable spectrum is a major aspect of led in horticulture and is still heavily focussed on blurple even when not pure blurple.
The best spectrum for the plant is also not necessarily the same as the best spectrum for the grower, but it's all about control and cannabis can benefit from a veg (green leafy plant) and flower spectrum (budding and trichome production). If it weren't for prohibition there'd be little discussion about this.
Intellectual honesty forces me to add that the most siginifcant differences are at what we would consider low intensity. It makes sense that if you run the low umol the spectrum becomes a lot more important than at high intensity. Research specifically done in climate chambers showed light with an "artificial sun light spectrum" resulted in higher bio mass than blurple led. On the other hand, some species perform best under blurple or high amounts of reds in addition to some daylight like spectrum.
Anyway, thanks man... you indirectly led me to this little titbit:
"With roses there are huge differences in photosynthetic spectrum between cultivars. In roses with high anthocyanin (red leaves) photosynthesic efficiency under LED can be 35% higher than under SON-T [hps]." http://edepot.wur.nl/205198
That 35% franky seems high but it's also known it's feasible to increase the anthocyanin level (main breeding interest for me atm) with the right led spectrum. And thus utilize it. Huge potential.
The classic test is to grow a plant species under pure red, pure blue, and blurple/white (or both). Anyone done that yet with cannabis? I'm up for doing that. Outcome is predictable but should be fun. 3 x 12 or so XP-E2 mini cabinets. Drivers recommendation anyone?
BOBBY_G
Well-Known Member
i never said that efficiency = photons. that was a devils advocate response to photons be photons argument
and mccree curve is a great study. of course plants are complex and its not as simple as simply matching the absorbance/ response/action curves with a spectrum
a few other points before i lay this to rest
@PurpleBuz approached it from the point of view that blurples are dead in the water and thats a known fact
. I countered that by asking if anyone has actually done a real side by side with a modern blurple (i.e top shelf stuff, BML/fluence, 2015 CLW w/3w osrams, etc). There is one respected grower on here (eludes me but you guys know him) who still claims his best results to this day came from an apache AT600 with whites and reds. to circle back to my point, comparing your CXBs or even 3070s with blurples you may have used a few years ago (and many of dubious origin) is perhaps not the levelest of playing fields.
To date i still dont have a cob rig in action because i still have too much gear (5x9's filled with AC/DEs, phantom, cmh's, and 2015 osram CLWs respectively) and im too busy to even keep those rooms full right now.
GG gave me static for hyping up cobs without having experience with them so i heeded his advice and i dont do that anymore. Now i speak to what i know and i have yet to achieve better results with anything better than the 2015 CLWs (12-14 165Watters in a 5x9 in a nice pattern) and that goes for quantity and quality. crushing both the 2014 clews and kinds which i also tried in the last 2 years.
so that said let me be the purple knight here (RIP Prince), that will be my first comp is white vs blurple vs mixing them up.
not my day job so things are moving slowly. irritates me that the tents are full right now but im still finishing and trimming last of the last crop and want to go hospital aseptic on everything before going again.
anyway, that got long. dont write off blurples i think there a lot we dont understand. my cob build im working on has 6 3500k 3590s on a bar @ 50W each, interspersed with 5 cutter triple star 660s @ 30W/bar. so thats my angle. up against my best blurple which is MY reference (for now)
Back to mccree @PurpleBuz dismissed basis for blurple tech as being limiting as it was algae in a test tube or something. well mccree was 30 umol on food crops so again it should be taken in context.that may not accurately indicate results at 800-1200 umol + co2 etc.
point being a lot of assumptions are made. i dont think you can say white light is best/blurples are garbage without recognizing that HPS was and still is industry dominant with a CRI of 22 or whatever. We got a lot to learn and god bless all you guys for pushing it like nowhere else
ive been doing this for a long time off and on and my mind is blown by how far its come in just the last 12 months or so. A fantastic amount of resources here and i get shit on sometimes for coming off as a know-it-all. I try to earn and help others and speak to what i know. GG put me in my place for talking up cobs without the experience and he was 100% right. i come from an technical background outside of this arena and try to offer help on electrical, thermodyamics, math, efficiency, etc. where i can. and ill happily take on a friendly debate on any of those. I have the utmost respect for those of you who have the knowledge and experience and share it (that said i have little respect for the dick waving "pics or it never happened" trolls who insist that if you dont have 4 foot cola pics at the ready well your opinion is not valid. you get what im saying- sorry for the long winded response
im gonna take a shitload of uniform cuts and hopefully in a few weeks i can be that side-by-side blurple vs cob test weve been lacking. (though again my cob rig will have 660s so maybe not representative). in any case as i mentioned to @ttystikk in another thread, its really hard to get apples to apples when comparing past runs as everybody is constantly tweaking every aspect of medium, nutes, atmosphere, etc. even @SupraSPL started off his famous thread by saying (i was using 25% monos, then some hps, then some XPEs with the HPS
im unaware of anyone who has yet to do a modern blurple vs cob. HQ blurples arent bad. remember this?:
BML is a generation beyond that already
nobody has even given blurple cobs a fair shake yet