Is flushing based on any science?
- Thread starter bgmike8
- Start date
Mad Farmer DeeJ
Member
holy shit bg mike i just noticed your pic…. i don't knw what to say… rofl
No worries. sometimes shit doesnt read the way it was meant.I reread my comment.. sorry.. i didn't mean for it to come out that way… I'm not an organic snob i swear
it really just came out wrong.. silly as in hehehe
qwizoking
Well-Known Member
we all know that "flushing" removes nutes from soil (assuming inert medium blah blah) this is why people against it say why flush or only use water at the end, the plant still needs nutes...right...inevitably this lowers overall nutes in the plant. this isnt really debated, what is..is why do this,
that white stuff we call ash...its nutes. simply put...
theres nothing wrong with them being in the bud, and as i said from studying the tobacco industry we can learn how ratios and types of nutes effect burn qualities etc
this is nothing new.. theres a reason other crops including tobacco arent flushed.. stoners seem to be afraid of things they dont understand
for example potassium expands when heated giving a more efficient burn allowing more oxygen. burning anaerobic causes carbon to be left behind as moisture is driven off. carbon + oxygen = co2 leaving the white ash ie the non flammable portion of the nutrients.
another thing to keep in mind is that during the cure, the plant acts as a cutting, through gas exchange (hydrolysis and respiration) much of the nitrates etc are broken down..but i could go down a rabbit hole in all of these topics
irrationally being afraid of a synthetic nute or organic makes no sense, or smoking the grown bud
From my minor and short experienceswith cannabis and other plants
, they will form an abscission layer in the leaves when in a low nute environment. This stops overall depletion of nutes as the leaf is not completing photosynthesis or providing more energy than its using.. and not taking anything in from the stem and the plant at that point ,instead of a net loss the plant cuts off the leaf. This keeps the levels of nutes in buds stable.
This constant stability (homeostasis) is pretty hard to disrupt. notice the buds turn yellow long after the leaves edit.. whoops, other way around lol, yall know what i meant
anyway i forgot what i was saying
that white stuff we call ash...its nutes. simply put...
theres nothing wrong with them being in the bud, and as i said from studying the tobacco industry we can learn how ratios and types of nutes effect burn qualities etc
this is nothing new.. theres a reason other crops including tobacco arent flushed.. stoners seem to be afraid of things they dont understand
for example potassium expands when heated giving a more efficient burn allowing more oxygen. burning anaerobic causes carbon to be left behind as moisture is driven off. carbon + oxygen = co2 leaving the white ash ie the non flammable portion of the nutrients.
another thing to keep in mind is that during the cure, the plant acts as a cutting, through gas exchange (hydrolysis and respiration) much of the nitrates etc are broken down..but i could go down a rabbit hole in all of these topics
irrationally being afraid of a synthetic nute or organic makes no sense, or smoking the grown bud
From my minor and short experienceswith cannabis and other plants
, they will form an abscission layer in the leaves when in a low nute environment. This stops overall depletion of nutes as the leaf is not completing photosynthesis or providing more energy than its using.. and not taking anything in from the stem and the plant at that point ,instead of a net loss the plant cuts off the leaf. This keeps the levels of nutes in buds stable.This constant stability (homeostasis) is pretty hard to disrupt. notice the buds turn yellow long after the leaves edit.. whoops, other way around lol, yall know what i meant
anyway i forgot what i was saying
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Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
In testing with gaschome - if you know what your doing - you can tell WHAT fert the person has used! My tester can. He was always right when I was experimenting with differing synthetics.....He can tell the dif in Org to synth too!
I have to ask @Mad Farmer DeeJ .
How do you dry and cure and did you grow all the product you tested?
What exactly are you testing for result? Actual buds? Dried and cured?
The Cure will deplete residual nutrient levels in any plant that is cured for consumption....
I think your testing is skewed some how.
I'm rather familiar with your equipment from my past employment on the yew farm!
The thing that gets my attention is the 83% (Whats your baseline?) reduction of nutrient levels in the measured substance.
If that was the actual NPK at harvest. That plant would have been very unhealthy and looked it too!
I'm sorry but I think you NEED to test just harvested plant matter (That you will actually smoke "after" the dry and cure) for ACTUAL measure of any reduction in contained NPK values per several methods of "flush" to gain credible results!
You see as the nutrient levels in a "flushed" plant reduce. Any that are mobile will move inside the plant to where actual needs are for that growth. Buds do not really "reduce" in available nutrition very much at all.
Your equipment is meant more for metering fresh plant matter and soils (in my use) in a way to judge availability, quantity, up-take and up-take quality in relation to specific nutrient formulations and the local soils needs and variations in said soils as in relation to nutrient requirements for optimal growth in the plants....
Hope your not confused! I'm not and I used equipment just like that.
So in a nutshell. You can not test dried or cured matter and gain actual scientific results !!
In my eye's (as one who's used said equipment in Ag field science). You have to test just picked samples to get accurate results in plants that are NOT flushed (Baseline) and then several that have been "flushed" with what ever method you propose!
THIS COULD shed some interesting light on the subject......It could show lots of things - Like overuse of P in yellowing plants. And that brings out another variable! The plants SHOULD have been feed the same nutrition, same time, plant strains and temps. You would have to remove as many variables as possible in the grows and keep them identical..
This is an interesting idea! Kinda hard and time consuming to accomplish - doable!
Doc
WeedFreak78
Well-Known Member
I'm fairly convinced flushing is a process that's come about because people nuke their plants with ferts in flowing then need to leech it out at the end. I've found a tapered reduction in nutes from full strength down to about .5 Ec starting end of week 6 to mid week 8 allowed the plants to use stored reserves while still providing trace nutes. I'll top up with RO the last few days but try keeping EC above .2.
Our plants are still maturing and growing when we harvest, they aren't dead, just at their peak of flowering, and they still need small amounts of nutes. I've seem plants live for weeks after the harvest window, just a slow decline to death.
Our plants are still maturing and growing when we harvest, they aren't dead, just at their peak of flowering, and they still need small amounts of nutes. I've seem plants live for weeks after the harvest window, just a slow decline to death.
nicougrik
Well-Known Member
I've just read through this whole damn thread. I think two important questions, which we all came to see answered, were not answered regarding flushing.
1. What is better for YIELD (quantitative)? Flushing or not flushing?
2. What is better for QUALITY (qualitative)? Flushing or not flushing ?
Now I do not have the experience nor the professional knowledge to answer these questions, please enlighten us with yours with a brief explanation.
Thank you
1. What is better for YIELD (quantitative)? Flushing or not flushing?
2. What is better for QUALITY (qualitative)? Flushing or not flushing ?
Now I do not have the experience nor the professional knowledge to answer these questions, please enlighten us with yours with a brief explanation.
Thank you
ScHuM3r14
Well-Known Member
Flushing your plants in the last two weeks of a grow is one the most common pieces of knowledge when it comes to pre-harvest time.
So is flushing your plants before harvest a good idea? Yes. But not for the reason that most people think…
Any time you feed your plants, they intake nutrients which - in too-high amounts - are not able to be used by the plants and therefore can add a 'chemically' taste to your buds. Flushing in the last two weeks gives your plant a chance to “drink water” without extra minerals to further alter the taste. It also clears out any build up of excess minerals or nutrient salts in your medium (such as coco coir, or water for DWC).
However, flushing does not "leach out" nutrients/minerals that are already in the buds. While your plant can use up extra stored nutrients in the leaves of the plant, this does not remove a "chemical" taste from your buds if you've provided too many nutrients throughout the flowering stage.
Many people believe that flushing with plain water takes nutrients (and thus bad taste) out of the buds, in a sense, returning them to their ‘natural flavor’. Unfortunately, this just isn’t the case.
When it comes to ensuring good taste and smell of your cannabis plants, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Instead of relying on the flush to prevent extra nutrients from being stored in your buds, it's better to avoid ever giving the plant more nutrients than it can use in the first place. That means keeping nutrient levels as low as you can throughout the grow while preventing nutrient deficiencies.
So is flushing your plants before harvest a good idea? Yes. But not for the reason that most people think…
Any time you feed your plants, they intake nutrients which - in too-high amounts - are not able to be used by the plants and therefore can add a 'chemically' taste to your buds. Flushing in the last two weeks gives your plant a chance to “drink water” without extra minerals to further alter the taste. It also clears out any build up of excess minerals or nutrient salts in your medium (such as coco coir, or water for DWC).
However, flushing does not "leach out" nutrients/minerals that are already in the buds. While your plant can use up extra stored nutrients in the leaves of the plant, this does not remove a "chemical" taste from your buds if you've provided too many nutrients throughout the flowering stage.
Many people believe that flushing with plain water takes nutrients (and thus bad taste) out of the buds, in a sense, returning them to their ‘natural flavor’. Unfortunately, this just isn’t the case.
When it comes to ensuring good taste and smell of your cannabis plants, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Instead of relying on the flush to prevent extra nutrients from being stored in your buds, it's better to avoid ever giving the plant more nutrients than it can use in the first place. That means keeping nutrient levels as low as you can throughout the grow while preventing nutrient deficiencies.
Anon Emaus
Well-Known Member
In regards to flushing being that you only feed water for the last two weeks and you had a great grow with no overfeeding issues or such.
1. Not flushing is better. By starving your plant of nutrients it wants at a very critical point in it's life you will most likely decrease your yield.
2. Not flushing is better. Keeping your plant healthy until the end can only create a better quality end product.
Did i test either of these with scientific accuracy, no, did anyone, no... Marijuana is too taboo for us to get quality scientific tests as of yet so we'll have to wait for the myth to finally be killed off.
nicougrik
Well-Known Member
So annoying, this whole thread and no answers.. sigh
Anon Emaus
Well-Known Member
Even cave men argued over flushing or not flushing....saw it drawn on a cave wall once
greasemonkeymann
Well-Known Member
problem with this logic is that assuming cannabis material is devoid of anything to begin with.
ALL green plants are relatively high in nitrogen to naturally, so how do you figure what is exactly what.
whats the baseline?
seems a bit scientifically flawed
bgmike8
Well-Known Member
I think the more it is legalized the better chances we will see real experiments done.
Right now it's just ancedotal. I've got guys saying they can tell the difference and guys saying otherwise.
Since yield is important to me I'm not going to flush. I'm going to cure it properly.
Now I am pushing the nutes hard so maybe if I'm ready to harvest for sure I might flush it 2 days or something just for the fuck of it.
If I can get some decent yields in the future then maybe I will play around with it . Do some side by side experimentation. But then it will still be ancedotal because it's just some asshole saying "it tastes like this"
Right now it's just ancedotal. I've got guys saying they can tell the difference and guys saying otherwise.
Since yield is important to me I'm not going to flush. I'm going to cure it properly.
Now I am pushing the nutes hard so maybe if I'm ready to harvest for sure I might flush it 2 days or something just for the fuck of it.
If I can get some decent yields in the future then maybe I will play around with it . Do some side by side experimentation. But then it will still be ancedotal because it's just some asshole saying "it tastes like this"
SPLFreak808
Well-Known Member
Still waiting for that test result sheet....