Light Intensity; LED vs HID

Resinhound

Resinhound

Well-Known Member
guod said:
plants counting and weighted the length of a day; - time calculation to start flowering.
they also count and weighted the red/far red ratio.
they make logical decision about the spectrum; - standing in the shade or is this a sunny place
these are all forms of simple math!
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They aren't making any calculations, they are responding to an environment they have adapted to. We are merely trying to duplicate that environment indoors so they might complete their processes, they don't know the difference between 12 hours of darkness or 6 hours. If we could figure out a way for plants to accumulate enough ethylene to flower under 6 hours of darkness, they would happily do so.
 
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JorgeGonzales

JorgeGonzales

Well-Known Member
One thing I will say is that
guod said:
plants counting and weighted the length of a day; - time calculation to start flowering.
they also count and weighted the red/far red ratio.
they make logical decision about the spectrum; - standing in the shade or is this a sunny place
these are all forms of simple math!
Click to expand...
Plants are crazy, yo.
 
JorgeGonzales

JorgeGonzales

Well-Known Member
BM9AGS said:
Here's a company where you can rent high end spectrometers and par meters and other cool stuff.

I might rent some things to test my bull headed thesis and shits and giggles.

I want to confirm my pure mathematical calculations based on this:
View attachment 3717149
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FWIW, forgetting all the fancy graphics, Gavita claims > 2000 PPF, and using Supra's numbers ummm 2.62*48.85*16 = 2047 PPF

So, yeah. Same # of photons, different spectrum, about 800 PPFD over all.
 
Resinhound

Resinhound

Well-Known Member
guod said:
without any logic?
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Plants don't have logic, they simply have processes that they complete.Those processes require a certain environment to complete. They aren't making any calculations, chemical processes happen, they aren't choosing why or how those happen.
 
BM9AGS

BM9AGS

Well-Known Member
JorgeGonzales said:
FWIW, forgetting all the fancy graphics, Gavita claims > 2000 PPF, and using Supra's numbers ummm 2.62*48.85*16 = 2047 PPF

So, yeah. Same # of photons, different spectrum, about 800 PPFD over all.
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I'm using ledil Stella HB lenses. Which robincnn tested here:image.jpeg

I know a lense doesn't make its own light but it directs it Mo Betta. So would the ppf change with a lens?

The point metered ppfd meter has higher numbers.

Thanks for the info jorge
 
JorgeGonzales

JorgeGonzales

Well-Known Member
BM9AGS said:
I'm using ledil Stella HB lenses. Which robincnn tested here:View attachment 3717265

I know a lense doesn't make its own light but it directs it Mo Betta. So would the ppf change with a lens?

The point metered ppfd meter has higher numbers.

Thanks for the info jorge
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PPF, to reinterate, is literally Photosynthetic Photon Flux, aka actual photons between 400-700nm leaving the LES. The only thing a lens would do is cause a small amount of light loss, say 2-5%.
 
guod

guod

Well-Known Member
Resinhound said:
Plants don't have logic, they simply have processes that they complete.Those processes require a certain environment to complete. They aren't making any calculations, chemical processes happen, they aren't choosing why or how those happen.
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smartphones don't have logic, they simply have processes that they complete.Those processes require a certain environment to complete. They aren't making any calculations, ....
 
Resinhound

Resinhound

Well-Known Member
BM9AGS said:
I'm using ledil Stella HB lenses. Which robincnn tested here:View attachment 3717265

I know a lense doesn't make its own light but it directs it Mo Betta. So would the ppf change with a lens?

The point metered ppfd meter has higher numbers.

Thanks for the info jorge
Click to expand...
Well i might be wrong as I said I'm not an expert on all the technical calculations, but from what I gathered from here and else where. PPF is the total photons created and PPFD is the concentration of those photons over a given area. So to my thinking lenses would increase PPFD by concentrating PPF into a given area. If I understand this correctly anyways.
 
Resinhound

Resinhound

Well-Known Member
guod said:
smartphones don't have logic, they simply have processes that they complete.Those processes require a certain environment to complete. They aren't making any calculations, ....
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You're right smartphones don't choose to carry out those processes, they simply carry out the processes programmed into them... Nice analogy thanks.

One there is logic cause and effect at work here, but there isn't choices or decisions being made by the plant based on that logic, that's my only point.
 
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Hybridway

Hybridway

Well-Known Member
Resinhound said:
Well it's easy to add those things to the spectrum, I do it as well. But I don't call it "cannabis specific" I call it complete.Closer to the sun? Heh maybe.. Closer then plain cobs I'm sure, but still no magic here. And still pretty far from sunlight I'm afraid. Like I said, it's a decent light but all the mumbo jumbo rubs me the wrong way.
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I think they call it Canna-Specific because it is a well thought out (based on R+B/R+D) sun mimicking design. And the sun would be the ultimate canna-specific light. They took both, split the differance & tested it thoroughly on marijuana specifically to obtain the best cannabis flowering spectrum available on the horticultural led grow light market at the time. And still continues to be that way in my opinion. That is if one believes firing all photosynthetic receptors with a full spectrum is better for flowering bud then the previous popular belief of targeting only specific Chloro peaks.
But I guess until more side by sides have been done, that will only be a matter of opinion to many.
But those whom have done the comparison (like me) will remain w/ the opinion that the full - yet select, spectrum will flower better.
I believe those whom use white share the same opinion as their shooting for a full spectrum themselves.
Why so many of them think the ball should stop rolling at white only rather then enhancing it & taking the step forward to a more full spectrum is beside me?

Can we talk about why the LED intensity drop in depth is so much higher then the HPS drop? I am having a hard time understanding that. I would gain allot from data & equations in this matter as I do have HPS experience primarily.
Is it due to the centralized light source, & that is why the Spectrum King held its own more in that test?
If so, why wouldn't you guys believe my point about spreading out more intense light (600watt equivalents) rather then those that maintain a high PPFD on the canopy rather then sharing the high PPFD w/ the penetration available through using a stronger source?
 
cdgmoney250

cdgmoney250

Well-Known Member
Abiqua

Abiqua

Well-Known Member
RM3 said:
So the actual chemicals are thinkin bout what they're doin?

or you sayin there is understood human logic with regard to what happens?
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define logic first and if it relates strictly to carbon.
shouldn't that be the 1st question.
know one else is trying to put the anthropomorphic spin on it....logic is beyond humans as well, unless we narrow our parameters, just sayin......
 
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