Light Intensity; LED vs HID

[Hybridway]

nobody said that.
112,000 lumens is the approximate total amount of light produced by 4 of those lights, where as 140,000 lumens is an approximate total amount of light produced by 1K. in this case because of the technology it will take about 5 250hps to produce the same amount of light as a 1000hps.

The total amount of light produced by any lamp is NOT the same as the instantaneous reading at any point on the canopy.
This is like the difference between "PPF" of a lamp versus the "PPFD" at any point on the canopy.

Learn to understand what people have been trying to say, ignorance and refusal to learn makes you the one trolling this thread.

If you have never grown pot, how can you understand what I'm trying to say?

Only those with hands on experience growing can understand, because there are no math equations that I am aware of that take into account the saturation point of Cannabis.

IT TAKES INTENSITY/DENSITY/PENETRATION TO GROW LONG, HARD NUGS.
You can have an even 800 PPFD from several spread out, low current COBs all you want. As we have seen here though, the drop is real.
All I am trying to explain is that it may be possible to decrease the drop by using more intense sources of light.
If cranking up your cob accomplishes that, then what do you guys have against those whom might wanna try it to finally be able to accomplish long, hard colas similar to that the HPS growers have been accomplishing for years before COBs or LEDs in general?
Just can't fathom why you would not want that???
Try growing with both & tell me I'm wrong!
COBs are great. Spreading out light is great. Growing Donkey Dicks is what we all want from any light source, that would be great.
I'm done repeating myself. I see some get what I'm saying. Some have selective hearing like a scorned woman.
I'll try to say it using all scientific terms later when I can reference my old notes so not to be unheard do to a technicality in terms used. It's sad really that it's come to that.

Is there really no HPS growers here to verify what I'm saying to be true????

 

[Hybridway]

I made an inopropriate comment earlier in this thread in defense of another person that was being called a stupid troll for understanding my points.
I've been being called names too. I don't care but others are a bit sensitive obviously & can dish it out but can't take it in.
So, I apologize to anyone who's feelings may be hurt from any comment I made.
With that said, I am only expressing a different veiw then what has been a common misbelief in my honest opinion & is also the opinion of many others whom are afraid to speak against the bully's who call names.

 

[hillbill]

Sometimes I'm amazed at how many crops have grown under direct sun and mostly clear skies. Take into account also that the sun directly strikes more of the plant as it arches across the sky. Also, the intensity is the same from the top of the plant and at ground level. Inverse square from 93,000,000 miles!

The 1000 hps has been the standard among commercial growers for a reason, shear power.

 

[testiclees]

Sometimes I'm amazed at how many crops have grown under direct sun and mostly clear skies. Take into account also that the sun directly strikes more of the plant as it arches across the sky. Also, the intensity is the same from the top of the plant and at ground level. Inverse square from 93,000,000 miles!

The 1000 hps has been the standard among commercial growers for a reason, shear power.

Something very similar was said about the steam engine ...sheer power.

 

[churchhaze]

It's threads like these that make me really appreciate having an IQ of over 100.

 

[ticklykayak]

Based on my observation in terms of which last longer and efficiency wise, it could be Led more than Hid.

 

[a mongo frog]

Add the fact that most connoisseurs I know prefer not to smoke the massive donkey dick buds anyway, instead favouring the medium sized nugs from slightly lower down the plant. I include myself here. Also as a grower I prefer to have more uniformity from having a bunch of slightly smaller colas than a few massive ones when it comes time to jar up.

This part is a joke right? Don't you guys know how to trim and brake down?

 

[sixstring2112]

i cant believe i just read that,grow less donkey dicks and more fluffy nuggets lmao.anyways im pretty sure this topic is forbidden here because it uses the terms " HID" in the led section hahahaha.

 

[Scarce26]

 

[dandyrandy]

It's threads like these that make me really appreciate having an IQ of over 100.

Quick question off topic and I'll fade away. I saw you ran 4 Vero 29' s off a 185 1400 driver. I think it was a 1400 ma. Anyway did they fire up OK? Enough voltage for 4?

 

[churchhaze]

Quick question off topic and I'll fade away. I saw you ran 4 Vero 29' s off a 185 1400 driver. I think it was a 1400 ma. Anyway did they fire up OK? Enough voltage for 4?

The vero 29s only run at 1.1A on that driver because the voltage maxed out by 1 or 2 volts. I do use it, but I will eventually re-purpose those drivers and cobs for something else. (may end up just selling the driver on ebay)

 

[dandyrandy]

The vero 29s only run at 1.1A on that driver because the voltage maxed out by 1 or 2 volts. I do use it, but I will eventually re-purpose those drivers and cobs for something else. (may end up just selling the driver on ebay)

I'm thinking of popping some 3k vero29's on my 3590 heatsink and switch between them for bloom. It appears the 3500 k aren't quite the bud builder the veros were. I'll supplement with those a few blurple cobs for uv etc. I swapped 4 of the 3590's with 3k and the buds look better. Thanks!

 

[Stealthstyle]

They both have good points. cobs dont need a hole in the roof for heat exhaust for starters. HIDgrow bigger buds i guess, that might be true but they both have uses.

 

[OneHitDone]

This brings some perspective to "spread" vs "intensity" and "penetration"
Maybe a "small confined space" for photon emission is best? Particularly when using led's of differing nm

 

[Greengenes707]

How about some real sources.
Diffused light over direct...spread over concentrated.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18028265
http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2014/04/29/aob.mcu071
http://www.actahort.org/books/957/957_4.htm

 

[Sativied]

3000k better bud builder than 3500k huh...

Just can't fathom why you would not want that???

Because it would decrease their imaginary efficiency and gpw numbers. Running cobs at lower current does not equate to low intensity on plants though and spectrum and light direction play a large role in penetration and growing donkey dicks, besides just intensity itself. With led one can control all of those separately, just like the efficiency... if one would choose to do so...

Or else, there's always this one
https://www.rollitup.org/t/1000watt-hps-replacement-bulb.903735/
Including more "real" sources lol

 

[akdrum]

Thank you for respectfully adding useful information here!
Your information is not shit. Not saying any data is shit. All is good but should be taken into account with actual growing for full benifit is my only point there.
Just edited my last post. Would you mind reading it & getting back to me about cooling the COBs to make them last or simply replacing them every 3--5 runs if need be when they begin to diminish? They are cheaper then bulbs & if the driver is in tact, why not just switch em out? You'll be increasing your yields & could also grow bigger plants, I believe. Thank you!
Also, keep in mind that a cob shoots its light from only one side. A bulb does 360• & it's intensity will be best determined by accounting for the style reflector or hood being used. Like my little Phantom hood will put out A higher PPFD @ 12" then my Raptor.
I think we should put 2 COBs together @ 1/2 power (if trying to maintain said efficiency) to give you the reduction in PPFD drop. Wouldn't that make a differance? Do the same as DIY'rs do now with spreading them out, but double the light output from each set (acting as one), either by turning it up or adding another cob in the same place.

I would like to know something about distance and discreet diode spacing in relation to how close you can hang lights to the canopy. If you have a light that is say 500w and you hang it 3 ft above the canopy to get a specific spread of the light, say a 4' x4' coverage, and you have an average PPFD of some given # at that height, could you take those same diodes and spread them over say a 4' x 4' space and lowered them to say about 6" over the canopy, use no reflectors, would/could you achieve the same PPFD but have a more uniform coverage of the space. Light density decreases with distance so is there an advantage to moving in close? Is this a good idea to pursue for a build? I have not found any reference about this. Any thoughts?

 

[MrTwist1]

I would like to know something about distance and discreet diode spacing in relation to how close you can hang lights to the canopy. If you have a light that is say 500w and you hang it 3 ft above the canopy to get a specific spread of the light, say a 4' x4' coverage, and you have an average PPFD of some given # at that height, could you take those same diodes and spread them over say a 4' x 4' space and lowered them to say about 6" over the canopy, use no reflectors, would/could you achieve the same PPFD but have a more uniform coverage of the space. Light density decreases with distance so is there an advantage to moving in close? Is this a good idea to pursue for a build? I have not found any reference about this. Any thoughts?

You are basically describing what most people here do all day long with their COB LEDs. The advantage is a better spread and uniformity, and increased efficiency. Amazingly there are folks here who will argue til they are blue in the face that this is wrong, but anyone with a cursory understanding of physics knows it to be true.

FYI if you're mixing discrete diodes up close; Just make sure that you allow enough distance for the different light frequencies to mix before the light hits the plants. Good luck.

 

[testiclees]

FYI if you're mixing discrete diodes up close; Just make sure that you allow enough distance for the different light frequencies to mix before the light hits the plants. Good luck.

Mr t, why does the mixing matter?

 

[MrTwist1]

Mr t, why does the mixing matter?

Haha that's actually a really good question! I'll be honest and say that I cannot prove it to matter, although it does seem to be the common consensus.

Basically I believe that photosynthesis works more efficiently when the separate chloroplasts each receive a full spectrum of light. That is to say, I do not believe that, even if separate chloroplasts can act cooperatively to accumulate different frequencies of light to then be summed within the plant... that it would be as efficient as a full spectrum of light covering each and every chloroplast.

I am ready to be corrected if anyone can shine further light on this (pun intended).