Pk 13/14

[Scottmurphy12]

I know most people recommend using canna's pk 13/14 for only a week but I run a massive 800 litre modular flood and drain system and only flushing at the end of the cycle (10 week perpetual)

So will using this product during the stage the first bud sites appear have adverse effects due to not being flushed out and still being present throughout the grow.

 

[MeJuana]

Although I feel p/k booster is unnecessary many folks use it religiously. So the simplest way to answer your question is not really if you didn't see a problem. But an excess of these can cause other nutrients to become unavailable and to an untrained eye you might not even have noticed it when the plant was coming to end of life. This of course would be a few percentage points difference in final yield. But all the same if it were me I'd skip it or at the very least reduce it dramatically from recommended dosage.

 

[Dr. Who]

I see the word "perpetual" and have to say that you will begin to see problems with plants getting early exposure. Plants exposed to early and too high a P content will "yellow out". You will see reduced yields and quality with that problem! May take a cpl a weeks to get going but it will come on fast......after that.

I have such a hard time with the word "flush" as you never actually "flush" anything from the plant! In a solid media, you might "leech" most of the problem as in overage from the media BUT, in hydro, there is no such thing as "flush"...Only a reduction in available nutrient, and the plant reacts to that. Once a plant gets too much P....The damage is done and you can not "reverse" it.
You can slow it and sometimes stop it if caught fast enough. The use of a slightly higher N value can slow it.

Some nutrient lines use way high P&K levels and "hide" the P problem by raising N levels to delay the P overage from showing. It should be prudent to remind all, that N levels can be too high in bloom and can significantly reduce THC levels......
These products do NOT allow for reaching plant potentials in my book.....I could list a few but don't feel like a pissing match with those who swear by them......

 

[Scottmurphy12]

I see the word "perpetual" and have to say that you will begin to see problems with plants getting early exposure. Plants exposed to early and too high a P content will "yellow out". You will see reduced yields and quality with that problem! May take a cpl a weeks to get going but it will come on fast......after that.

I have such a hard time with the word "flush" as you never actually "flush" anything from the plant! In a solid media, you might "leech" most of the problem as in overage from the media BUT, in hydro, there is no such thing as "flush"...Only a reduction in available nutrient, and the plant reacts to that. Once a plant gets too much P....The damage is done and you can not "reverse" it.
You can slow it and sometimes stop it if caught fast enough. The use of a slightly higher N value can slow it.

Some nutrient lines use way high P&K levels and "hide" the P problem by raising N levels to delay the P overage from showing. It should be prudent to remind all, that N levels can be too high in bloom and can significantly reduce THC levels......
These products do NOT allow for reaching plant potentials in my book.....I could list a few but don't feel like a pissing match with those who swear by them......

Well this run I added about 10% recommended dose of the pk.
I agree I've done my due diligence when it comes to flushing I tried a side by side once but no more, I'm a week or two from harvest and there still lush and green.
I'm.currently at 2.4 ec.
The a and b I run is growth technologies.
Are there better bloom boosters you'd recommend. Or are you of the opinion that boosters do more harm than good.
I run a sealed room Co2 enriched with a modular flood and drain in hydroton and 6 gavita 1000 de. This run in the beginning the bluelab guardian meter shit the bed and had the ph . 6 under. So it was hard to see if I was pushing them too far with the nutes as they already had the signs of burn from the lockout. However I'm more confident about this run about to go in. I normally average around 5 keys. Every 10 weeks

 

[Dr. Who]

Well this run I added about 10% recommended dose of the pk.
I agree I've done my due diligence when it comes to flushing I tried a side by side once but no more, I'm a week or two from harvest and there still lush and green.
I'm.currently at 2.4 ec.
The a and b I run is growth technologies.
Are there better bloom boosters you'd recommend. Or are you of the opinion that boosters do more harm than good.
I run a sealed room Co2 enriched with a modular flood and drain in hydroton and 6 gavita 1000 de. This run in the beginning the bluelab guardian meter shit the bed and had the ph . 6 under. So it was hard to see if I was pushing them too far with the nutes as they already had the signs of burn from the lockout. However I'm more confident about this run about to go in. I normally average around 5 keys. Every 10 weeks

10% won't effect the plants to much extent. No worries there!

IF YOU PERPETUAL and have differing age plants being serviced by one res.
I would isolate the "stages" of bloom to their own res. You can shift the pots down the "line" or dump and refill as needed - up to you. Sounds liker you keep to a fairly tight dump and fill sched anyway.

What are the NPK's of those A&B parts you use and how do you use them as in a feeding chart or list the way you might increase the use of ???......THIS is the only way I could suggest a "P&K booster". The ratio's have to fit the primary in harmony with timing and length of use !

I do have several idea's for what you ask already!

 

[MeJuana]

I believe by flush he meant swap out the reservoir but what you said was right.

 

[Scottmurphy12]

10% won't effect the plants to much extent. No worries there!

IF YOU PERPETUAL and have differing age plants being serviced by one res.
I would isolate the "stages" of bloom to their own res. You can shift the pots down the "line" or dump and refill as needed - up to you. Sounds liker you keep to a fairly tight dump and fill sched anyway.

What are the NPK's of those A&B parts you use and how do you use them as in a feeding chart or list the way you might increase the use of ???......THIS is the only way I could suggest a "P&K booster". The ratio's have to fit the primary in harmony with timing and length of use !

I do have several idea's for what you ask already!

Due to the large reservoir I only dump after every 10 week run.
Sacrilege I know, but there's always lush an green up until harvest. I apply nutrients pro rata every time.i top up one of the res'.
I have a separate bloom room that has a separate reservoir. I've just been on the growth technology website and see they do there own pk boost so may look into that. My ec starts at around 1.2 after a couple weeks in the humidome/propagata and get to about 1.7 in veg and then in flower steadily get increased to about 2.4 has my water is fairly hard at 0.6 ec ( I've yet to set up my RO filter). I don't have the guaranteed analysis or the npk to hand but will post in the next few days.

 

[Dr. Who]

Due to the large reservoir I only dump after every 10 week run.
Sacrilege I know, but there's always lush an green up until harvest. I apply nutrients pro rata every time.i top up one of the res'.
I have a separate bloom room that has a separate reservoir. I've just been on the growth technology website and see they do there own pk boost so may look into that. My ec starts at around 1.2 after a couple weeks in the humidome/propagata and get to about 1.7 in veg and then in flower steadily get increased to about 2.4 has my water is fairly hard at 0.6 ec ( I've yet to set up my RO filter). I don't have the guaranteed analysis or the npk to hand but will post in the next few days.

If, your following the makers sched. You should be free to use any PK booster of the same or very close ratio.....

If you run less, or more. Simply adjust the use by the same %, up or down....

I tend to agree with no need for "boosters" BUT, Some of these synthetic lines that have a "booster" in the line up are pretty much built that way on purpose and are actually quite balanced for it. Some even have it used properly and at the right time to avoid the yellow out and give near potential results.

Hesi
Canna
Ionic

Are some off the top of my head, that are pretty good for that.

Sounds like you'll be fine..

 

[DesertGrow89]

Some nutrient lines use way high P&K levels and "hide" the P problem by raising N levels to delay the P overage from showing. It should be prudent to remind all, that N levels can be too high in bloom and can significantly reduce THC levels......

So what ratio of nitrogen in bloom to p and k would you consider to be too high? Is 3:1:2 too high? What do you think is an optimal ratio?

 

[MeJuana]

Look at the nutrient vendors to see what their total line up consists of NPK wise. That's your answer to what we as a community have found to work. Some of us only use the base of those nutrients but many of us use every single additive. So that's your range. When I was reverse engineering nutrients mixing my own chemical salts that's how I do

 

[Dr. Who]

So what ratio of nitrogen in bloom to p and k would you consider to be too high? Is 3:1:2 too high? What do you think is an optimal ratio?

Nice question! Depending on just how and when you apply your nutrients can be the key.....3-1-2 is a great all the way through basis to work from.....3-2-2 and even 3-1-1 can work also. I never liked one single ratio in any run!
I always changed mine at times.
At the "flip" I liked to actually up my N by 1.0 and the PK by only .5 for 2 weeks (Veg NPK value used 3-2.5-3 I like a higher K value at all stages Flip values 4-3-3.5). At 3 - 4 weeks I would "boost" the P&K by 0-7-5 and at week 5 the K by 0-0-3.....So at week 4 the totals were 4-10-8.5 and at week 5 4-10-11.5 .....

This was in a basic soil (Potters Gold) depleted of it's own nutrients long ago! I also feed everyday at this value a metered amount to just get the plant to the next days lights on to again "water-feed". I tended to feed Sativa's by the water one day and feed the next alternating sched...I adjusted them from there.

In hydro I ran in veg (All compared to the above values)
N = .5 lower
P = .5 lower
K = .5 higher!

At the "flip"
Add .5 N
Add 2.0 P
Add 2.0 K

At the week 4 "boost"
Add 9.0 P
Add 7.5 K

This was my dialed in nutrient use for "most" strains. Very high % Sativa's began lower values and that changes again for "pure" or "landrace" one's. I would have to say you should dial in your own from there....
The above "dial in" has room to play with! It was just my favorite in soil and hydro to maybe make a specific adjustment for a particular strain..

Good luck.

 

[Dr. Who]

Look at the nutrient vendors to see what their total line up consists of NPK wise. That's your answer to what we as a community have found to work. Some of us only use the base of those nutrients but many of us use every single additive. So that's your range. When I was reverse engineering nutrients mixing my own chemical salts that's how I do

For the most part, yeah, I did it that way to start me out.....You have to remember that many nutrient makers are over doing it on the "push" and that many (most) have you starting increases in p-k too soon and by too much!

That was the "you better know what your doing" part!

But like I said. It's just to easy to say 3-1-2 or something. The point being that others work too. Using several at different times in the run is best (in my book). Timing changes is key!

 

[DesertGrow89]

Thank You I'll add this to my notes