Purple Tiny Stems and stunted Growth

[Shastafarian]

Hello I have a major issue been growing same strains from seed Hashbar from Archive and a few others for 18months had them dialed almost100% in then boom something started acting up bad around christmas time veg and bud started acting funny and yield started decreasing allot vegging growth was very slowed to a crawl the stems are purpleing slowy and they are getting choked off tiny skinny stems. There are some tiny little micro crawlys under the pots from time to time but notthing really big deal honestly and in the soil when I pull a good bit back the roots aren't growing near as good anymore I get 1/4 the development I was told root aphids and got Green Cleaner, Azamx, Dr. Doom Bombs the whole deal right and still same issues 7months later and the new strains are getting it so Im thinking disease? maybe? or some shit. I use a very good line of FFOF soil and Plain Omri listed Perlite my Nutes and additives are every other watering typically I use the Biobizz entire line from Root Juice, Algae mic, BioHeaven, Grow,Fish-Mix, and then Super-Thrive vitamin mix and Hygrozyme on Veg...... all those except Root Juice but add Bloom and Top Max during budding yet my shit looks funky as it can look. I have yet to figure this shit out and I have cleaned the Tents out 2x in the past 4months but my new clones aren't as fast and I even start seedlings that get slow. I used 1200-1500 ppm C02 for crying out loud in veg and bloom for this last grow and still didnt help too.

Im at my whits end I almost want to kill them all but Ive really put too much effort in selecting badass Phenotypes and Moms to quit now I could never replace them or quickly enough anyways. I depend on my garden to eat lets put it that way too so its essential I fix this problem. Any Ideas? Had the dead leaves too but no bugs under leaves or eggs I can see with my naked eye and Im pretty keen but they just aren't happy. Thought it was a water issue with chloramine and high traces of amonia but I bought a filter and I lightly treat it with PRIME for fish tanks to neutralize any of that shit so that made a world of difference right there but these things are still slow as christmas. PLEASE IM NOT LOOKING FOR JUST GUESSING even though it is a guessing game I need wisdom and experience.Im a 12yr Veteran grower and have never ran across this issue so I can say its funky.

 

[coreywebster]

Post a picture

 

[Shastafarian]

This is a Hashbar that used to be very vigorous and grow fast but now it barely rejuvenates clones and they are thin tiny and weak and take forever to bud like 3xtra weeks when they used to finish with heavy thick green hollow stems and chunky crystal covered buds.




These are some slow clones in veg some that are yellow just because they came out of the clone machine so that happens always but green up in a few days the rest are taking there sweet time almost 3wks old most of them and they're nothing like they should be. This Silver Back Jack Mom is only 2nd generation and selected for fast solid fat greasy clunkers but not now they give 1/3 the quality.
This is my El Fuego doing the same its a clone at least 1 month old been in veg and looks this scrawny like its only getting water yet I feed them way too well for all that with the best of the best.
And the El Fuego mom struggling in veg to even give healthy clones.
And this is El Fuego how she should look 50 days after 12/12 she's badass pheno but not nomo it seems
And you can see she isn't a scrappy producer, yet the one I have now in 12/12 is prob 35days in and looks nothing as it should as far as trichome development or growth structure and yield. they just dont have the root development anymore and I been adding rooting extras to boost development without solid success???

 

[bobtokes]

have you bought a new tent, or put anything new thats made of something like PVC in your tent
might be a bad batch of nutes, different soil mix

 

[kcc420]

Purple stems can be caused by low temperatures as well as mag deficiencies. Ffof is a very hot soil and you may be creating lockouts due to over feeding
It also retains water which will cause slow growth if it doesnt dry out.
800-1000ppm veg
900-1300 flower
No need to ever go higher.
I kind of doubt its a nutrient issue seeing as you have very little to no burn on your leaves

I dont know anything about your nutes so i cant comment about that

6.3-6.5ph

If you use tap water has your water quality changed recently? Did you add anthing new to your nutrient regiment.

I use some nitrozime foliar in veg and it helps to regain some growth vigor in my personal experience.

As for your bug problem you have a few possibilities. You can try ladybugs, they usually take care of most issues but it will be slow. Organic option.

There is also products like monterey once a year whixh contains imidacloprid. This is a soil drench that has supposedly minimum 60 day halflife but i would guess its longer due to the fact it says its applied yearly. There is also monterey fruit and tree systemic which is just a diluted version of the imid in once a year. I have used these products in the past but only for mother plants in which i intended to continue vegging for 2 months then take cuttings and veg those cuttings for another month and then flower. This gives adequate time for the soil drench to work its way out. This stuff will kill anything on your plant. I use it at much lower doses than recommended. Some people use this up to 2 weeks into flower but id strongly only recommend using this in a vegging plant that you dont intend to flower for a while.

 

[kcc420]

This is a Hashbar that used to kill it now it barely rejuvenates clones and they are tiny and weak and take forever to bud like 3xtra weeks when they used to finish with heavy thick green hollow stems even in veg like this.View attachment 3724078




These are some struggling clones in veg taking there sweet ass time like 3wks old most of them and nothing like they should be but this is a Silver Back Jack Mom is key I painstakingly worked through and selected for fast great solid fat greasy buds but not now they give 1/3 the quality. View attachment 3724080
This is my El Fuego doing the same its a clone at least 1 month old been in veg and looks this scrawny like its only getting water yet I feed them way too well for all that with the best of the best.View attachment 3724082
And the El Fuego mom struggling in veg to even give healthy clones.View attachment 3724087
And this is El Fuego how she should look 50 days after 12/12 she's badass pheno but not nomo it seemsView attachment 3724085 View attachment 3724086
And you can see she isn't a scrappy producer or grower yet the one i have in 12/12 now is prob 35days in and looks nothing as it should as far as trichome development or growth structure and yield. they just dont have the root development anymore and I been adding rooting extras to boost development without solid success???

Your root issues can be caused by inadequate drainage, overwatering etc. Great shark makes a great micro product if you want mychorizae and trichoderma. Mykoz is also a great product that is far cheaper but it needs to be dusted on transplant. Silica products can help produce a sturdier plant such as pro silicate. Soil has a certain portion of silica in it that will eventually be depleted and this can help the cell walls as well as make it more difficult for sap suckers to feed.

The yellowing on your leaves to me looks like an early nitrogen defficiency. You shouldnt be seeing that yet its too early. Many people on this site run green till the end with high nitrogen and dont have any problem with it. I personally like to fade out but thats my preference and ive never been able to figure out which is actually better, maybe just grower preference.

As for trich production boosts you can foliar with light silica products and it tends to help with that. 1ml per quart @ about 250ppm total inclusing water. Ph to 6.3 and foliar your buds.. very light mist do not soak. You should barely be able to feel any dampness. I cut this off at about week 6.

Epsom salt can help with trich production (mag and sulfur) some say its really the sulfur content that does it. If you look at any bottles they all have sulfur and mag boosters for late flowering. Example botanicare sweet, citrus, berry. Its nothing complicated just sugar and sulfur/mag

Not sure what nutes you use, i have gone away from bottled stuff after doing alot of research and asking questions from a few of the jacks nutrient users here. Its simple, it works and best of all its cheap. U dont need expensive shit to grow a weed. Any nutrient. Will give you decent results if used correctly but alot of them will affect your wallet very badly to do so.

Even with bottled nutes id mix my old ratios as close to either
1-1-1 or 2-1-1 or 2-1-2 for veg (no noticeable difference)
1-3-2 early flower
1-2-3 late flower


Hope some of this helped a little (this is just my personal experience)

I know you dont want to hear this but when i have problems like what you are experiencing i end up starting fresh with new moms. Once they get stressed its really hard to bring them back to that old vigor

 

[coreywebster]

Could it be a loss of vigour from the clone been so old? I Run clones myself for long period and not really noticed it, but maybe some strains lose vigour quicker than others?
I hear a lot of folks saying it happens.
Could there be a lack of iron issue? I only say that due to the new growth in the veg pic, the yellowing from inner leaf. That could be a small sign or just because its new growth.

 

[Shastafarian]

Could it be a loss of vigour from the clone been so old? I Run clones myself for long period and not really noticed it, but maybe some strains lose vigour quicker than others?
I hear a lot of folks saying it happens.
Could there be a lack of iron issue? I only say that due to the new growth in the veg pic, the yellowing from inner leaf. That could be a small sign or just because its new growth.

Hey Corey thanks for reading my post before commenting. I use General Organics Cal-Mag every other watering & I also use both Fish-Mix by Biobizz and Bio-Grow 1-2ml each in my gallon of water along with 2ml Hygrozyme a root supercharger thats amazing it eats dead material and turns it into root development typically and biobizz Root Juice and Potassium Silcate all of these bottles are brand spankin new because I thought maybe the last batch was going bad or old maybe but I just wasted a bunch of expensive Organic Nutes by finding out the new bottles are not making the difference. I also use a Highly concentrated Vitamin supplement called Super Thrive that strengthens the immune system and helps root development and yield tremendously typically. I also use fresh bagged Fox Farm Ocean Forrest soil with lots of Mycorrhizae and my Fish Mix helps to increase them along with most organic nutes. I used potassium Silicate this entire past 3 months to strengthen them and it probably did some but the main thing is I use a Root Juice an organic Root enhancer made by my Biobizz that works amazing when the plants are healthy. So I would say that multi generational clones aren't really my main issue probably not the best hybrid vigor left but still I have seen some old as hell clones doing great. So I been popping new seeds/strains since Feb.to restart some better vigorous growing ladies incase that was going on but even they aren't growing like they should, they start slow and grow slower then normal with 1/3 the root mass that I always used to get full roots and super fast growth in my smart pots that I wash in bleach after every other grow. I also have a portable AC system that helps to evaporate soil moisture every night so it regulates that over watering and humidity to help the beneficial bacteria and environment to be ideal. I 1/4of the pot blended into my soil of Omri listed Perlite to ensure that proper oxygen flow through the roots. I have to water every day and a half tops so sitting water is not a issue. And the yellowing you see on my 2 pics of the finished El Fuego next to the Rogue sticker or my computer is always natural in allot of strains because its using the last nitrogen in the leaves during flush with fresh water so it finishes the leaves looking yellow on some and even multi colors on other strains/ phenotypes.

 

[Shastafarian]

have you bought a new tent, or put anything new thats made of something like PVC in your tent
might be a bad batch of nutes, different soil mix

Bob yes kind of I put 2 new tents in around christmas and thats when I noticed the majority of issue start, although I think I gave them both a lite bleach wash not crazy but I cleaned it some. This issue that shows up only during winter and then it relaxes in summer its trippy honestly but I thought even maybe the little cracks in the house allowed whatever to sneak in or on my shoes maybe and got into my garden possibly. I washed the whole room inside and out of tents a month later with lite bleach and Physan 20 an anti viral cleaner after I noticed issues because I thought the tents where clean fresh out of plastic but I just have not been able to fix it. I dont want to think of having to kill everything then start completely new because they are extremely important to my survival at this point if you catch my drift.

 

[bobtokes]

Bob yes kind of I put 2 new tents in around christmas and thats when I noticed the majority of issue start, although I think I gave them both a lite bleach wash not crazy but I cleaned it some. This issue that shows up only during winter and then it relaxes in summer its trippy honestly but I thought even maybe the little cracks in the house allowed whatever to sneak in or on my shoes maybe and got into my garden possibly. I washed the whole room inside and out of tents a month later with lite bleach and Physan 20 an anti viral cleaner after I noticed issues because I thought the tents where clean fresh out of plastic but I just have not been able to fix it. I dont want to think of having to kill everything then start completely new because they are extremely important to my survival at this point if you catch my drift.

a few people i know, have had problems with new tents bought from the internet, prolly made in china
turns out they have been made out of a materials that give off a gas toxic to plants when it gets warm, that might be your problem
your plants dont look like they have a disease to me

 

[Shastafarian]

a few people i know, have had problems with new tents bought from the internet, prolly made in china
turns out they have been made out of a materials that give off a gas toxic to plants when it gets warm, that might be your problem
Your plants dont look like they have a disease to me

Thats a new one to me never knew toxic gas was emitted from pvc plastics. Ive had them for 8months and the first 2 harvest were amazing then stuff hit the fan. I think it might have been a water issue. I have to filter it first then still add 2drops of Prime fish tank water chloramine and Ammonia neutralizer just to make it worthy of uptake because the city did something different to the water around last christmas and thats when they hated it even with trying to add vitamin -C tablets added still didn't help.I had to get a 50$ water hose filter specifically made for filtering ammonia bonded chloramines and that still wasn't enough. I had to add that Prime still onto of that then they jumped back a good bit. But you should have seen them back then when the city first changed the water treatment I stopped using it and I was giving them straight bottled water for a month and that didn't even help the tiniest they had that funk inside some of their systems one strain seemed to be more resistant but then succumb to its fate. Thats why I say a disease maybe, Ill show you pics back then later when I find them.

 

[saiyaneye]

Thats a new one to me never new toxic gas was emitted from pvc plastics. Ive had them for 8months and the first harvest was amazing then stuff hit the fan. I think it might have be a water issue. I have to filter it then still 2drops of Prime just to make it worthy of uptake because the city did something different to the water around last christmas and they hated it even with vitamin -C tablets added I had to use this then my plants came back. But you should have seen them back then I was giving them straight bottled water for a month and that didnt help the tiniest they had the funk inside their system. Thats why I say a disease maybe, Ill show you pics back then later when I find them.

I've heard about the China grow tents doing that, but I thought they stopped making those tents?

 

[Shastafarian]

I have some decent tents they aren't that old but they are Chinese. I had great results at first with them at least one full good harvest then the next got a little smaller yield and the next was even worse like I said and they are the same brand as the smaller tents I originally had & replaced them they where really jamming with my ladies. I also supplement with C02 so that really should help and I have fans in them with vent flaps open so if any gases where being emitted Id think my good C02 would help correct that but nothing helped they were in suspended chill mode with the slowest growth Ive ever seen even on 2nd generation Mom to her clones they don't flourish like they used too. Sorry to keep repeating myself fellas. Thank you so Much for the ideas everyone they are very good thoughts and your all helping me allot. Please keep them coming if you got more,

 

[Shastafarian]

Your root issues can be caused by inadequate drainage, overwatering etc. Great shark makes a great micro product if you want mychorizae and trichoderma. Mykoz is also a great product that is far cheaper but it needs to be dusted on transplant. Silica products can help produce a sturdier plant such as pro silicate. Soil has a certain portion of silica in it that will eventually be depleted and this can help the cell walls as well as make it more difficult for sap suckers to feed.

The yellowing on your leaves to me looks like an early nitrogen defficiency. You shouldnt be seeing that yet its too early. Many people on this site run green till the end with high nitrogen and dont have any problem with it. I personally like to fade out but thats my preference and ive never been able to figure out which is actually better, maybe just grower preference.

As for trich production boosts you can foliar with light silica products and it tends to help with that. 1ml per quart @ about 250ppm total inclusing water. Ph to 6.3 and foliar your buds.. very light mist do not soak. You should barely be able to feel any dampness. I cut this off at about week 6.

Epsom salt can help with trich production (mag and sulfur) some say its really the sulfur content that does it. If you look at any bottles they all have sulfur and mag boosters for late flowering. Example botanicare sweet, citrus, berry. Its nothing complicated just sugar and sulfur/mag

Not sure what nutes you use, i have gone away from bottled stuff after doing alot of research and asking questions from a few of the jacks nutrient users here. Its simple, it works and best of all its cheap. U dont need expensive shit to grow a weed. Any nutrient. Will give you decent results if used correctly but alot of them will affect your wallet very badly to do so.

Even with bottled nutes id mix my old ratios as close to either
1-1-1 or 2-1-1 or 2-1-2 for veg (no noticeable difference)
1-3-2 early flower
1-2-3 late flower


Hope some of this helped a little (this is just my personal experience)

I know you dont want to hear this but when i have problems like what you are experiencing i end up starting fresh with new moms. Once they get stressed its really hard to bring them back to that old vigor

Your right I been trying I got Hashbar originally stayed with her 3 phenos and a single El Fuego that did great then bought a bunch of new gear got Casper Og all died truly weird, RudeBoi Og all but 2 died and one was ok pheno not really a keeper but I ran her again for fun. I then got SinCities Blu Petrol and Silver Back jack did 6 each and all 6 came out great then the 2 month old gorgeous moms slowed down started getting sick and died and only one of each held up to whatever was going on which wasn't my favorite pheno of either but still real good and they now are doing that slow down very little rejuvenation of nodes and the budding clones take a full 2-3 wks extra to bud out and its 1/3 less weight. I was also popping a bunch of single freebees in this time that sucked nuts and Im not sure if one brought a hereditary disease that came out after a little growth but they each wasted precious space and time dont bother with those Mid week song freebees from Spanish Seeds they suck ass you'll maybe get a mediocre pheno at best. Then I started popping In House Genetics Nitro Cookies and Lemon Crippler which where all subpar crosses IMHO I then got some Bodhis More Cowbells tried 6 of them after bug bombimg the entire room cleaning from top to bottom and still they been not the best after changing to brand new Nutes which I might add are some the finest on the market. Biobizz is a Dutch company known for its excellent results the best of the best truly. If you can give it a try just do it you'll see its no joke it has natural sugars derived from beats in it that makes Trichome development second to none.

 

[bobtokes]

I have some decent tents they aren't that old but they are Chinese. I had great results at first with them at least one full good harvest then the next got a little smaller yield and the next was even worse like I said and they are the same brand as the smaller tents I originally had & replaced them they where really jamming with my ladies. I also supplement with C02 so that really should help and I have fans in them with vent flaps open so if any gases where being emitted Id think my good C02 would help correct that but nothing helped they were in suspended chill mode with the slowest growth Ive ever seen even on 2nd generation Mom to her clones they don't flourish like they used too. Sorry to keep repeating myself fellas. Thank you so Much for the ideas everyone they are very good thoughts and your all helping me allot. Please keep them coming if you got more,

what your saying about your grows getting worse fits with the dodgy tent theory as the tents produce more toxic gases as they get older, so your grows would get worse
using CO2 would be useless unless the extractor fans were cut off while the plant absorbs it as it would be sucked out, thats if it doesn't leak out of the vent flaps, CO2 is the heaviest gas in your room it needs to be blown back up to the canopy as it is heavy, but you prolly know all that
surely anything they put in the water that would kill plants would be damaging to humans as well ?
could you collect rainwater

 

[Shastafarian]

Sounds pretty weird about the tent gas but thanks Bob. I do have my fan on a timer set to go off when C02 is turned on but I dont do big ladies either I do 2-3wk veg and start Bloom in 1-2gal Smart Pot. I cant do rain water I live in the inner city and so I cant set up a water system like that. I can either buy water by the 5 gal jug of Spring Water at the grocery store for like 6-7$ a pop which gets old quick and a little pricey or I can Filter then treat my sh$%y City water. I use quite a bit since my AC helps regulate humidity and the plants are looking a little better in the past 3 days I gave them a heavy dose of SuperThrive and its made them pretty alive again I'm gonna get some beneficial Nematodes for a bit of extra assurance and help. I need to check my PH again also.

 

[kcc420]

If ur looking for new archive stuff, you can grab them from artizen seeds. I think archive opened a shop in portland. The dude is really cool u might be able to get him to ship u some new stuff. If u get a hold of him on IG he usually answers questions. . Usually when i get those kinds of issues i start fresh. Happened once when i let my casper mom sit in the same pot too long and she tried to flower due to being root bound. No idea what exactly happened to yours though thats strange. Ive got from attitude before as well hut they are extremely expensive. I got gdp and candyland. Both were legit.

 

[Shastafarian]

If ur looking for new archive stuff, you can grab them from artizen seeds. I think archive opened a shop in portland. The dude is really cool u might be able to get him to ship u some new stuff. If u get a hold of him on IG he usually answers questions. . Usually when i get those kinds of issues i start fresh. Happened once when i let my casper mom sit in the same pot too long and she tried to flower due to being root bound. No idea what exactly happened to yours though thats strange. Ive got from attitude before as well hut they are extremely expensive. I got gdp and candyland. Both were legit.

Ya KC I dont mess with the Tude anymore either really unless I have too but I did get my first Archive gear from them Hashbar and they gave me that El Fuego and Grizzly Purp.K that all turned out amazing but I dont think that Doc would just hook me up but Ill try. Im on IG.also I was looking at Artisan a few weeks ago saving my money for French Toast Or Bro G or even some Casper or Kirkwood but they all are gone and I knew it would happen. I hate when that happens I waited all year for them to get restocked and then they all get scooped up. I know better but I even have a seed bank that not many people know so from that I needed some new Archives or Swamp Boys or CSI is good and GDP's candy land is very good. I did although make a bunch of seeds from each keeper phenotype from one of my 2 best Hashbar Males which I only got 2 out of 12pk