Khronik kandy
Well-Known Member
So i have put black trash bags over my plants around 10am to transition into bloom i just want to know how long till i can take trash bags off and if this is a one time thing
Transitioning veg into bloom
- Thread starter Khronik kandy
- Start date
Resinhound
Well-Known Member
If these are regular photosensitive strains they will require 12 hour dark periods throughout flower, it's not a one time thing. If this is a problem for you, you should look into autos.
Trash bags isn't a good way to achieve this, a dark room is preferred.
Trash bags isn't a good way to achieve this, a dark room is preferred.
Khronik kandy
Well-Known Member
So black them out at noon then then wake them up in the morning 12/12
Resinhound
Well-Known Member
That's correct
BubbaGumpHemp
Well-Known Member
I agree trash bags are not going to work out well. Better off shoved in a closet or cabinet, anything really. I have devoted a lot of time and energy into understanding the tradition process, as for me it was one of the more difficult things to learn on my own. Any strain that has sativa can be substantially influenced by N availability. Contrary to most I cut N at transition and depend mostly on the natural N assimilation process in the soil. Worked wonders, I will copy my post about it here.
BubbaGumpHemp
Well-Known Member
i posted this in a different thread earlier today, we were discussing different fertilizer regiments in regards to the transition period between veg and flower and weather to flush or not. which happens to be the area i try to focus mostly on as its the most important phase IMO. like i said earlier in this journal i stop fertilizer 2 weeks before flower and rely on symbiosis with the microbes i use to get by on minimum N and in turn reduce node spacing, and in some cases density. Dr. Who enjoyed this i hope you will to 
heres the explanation as to why this counter intuitive technique works well for me
and yes my methods are a little different than most. after college i figured if u want to see something different u got to try something different, so i stepped out of my old "by the book" way of growing and haven't looked back since (i prefer going by the latest science). there is a lot of new research out there regarding the need for synthetic nitrogen. if you use a live culture of both aerobic and anaerobic microbes they are constantly decomposing elements into usable form for the plants. forgive me but this is going to get a little scientific here. to understand why and when the plant truly needs nitrogen u need a basic understanding of how N is converted to different forms.
the first step would be the conversion of atmospheric N (which is happening in your roots all the time) through a process called nitrogen fixation which is carried out by beneficial bacteria living in the root zone the (diazotrophs) combine hydrogen with nitrogen to produce ammonia (NH4) in a process called ammonification. this is important because the latest research has shown that when soils are lacking N these beneficial organisms will produce ammonia (which is converted to NO2 during nitrification by the oxidation of ammonium) in exchange for some carbohydrates. (another fascinating thing that is yet to be fully understood by the scientific community is the fact that the plant trades back some of the amino acids it produces back into the bacteria inorder to skip the whole process of ammonium assimilation process. however NO2 still cannot be used by the plant, this requires another step, yet again by the microbes you should be adding to your soil every month at least. once the nitrites (NO2) are converted by nitrifying bacteria into nitrates (NO3) which is important because nitrite is toxic to plants, the N can finally be assimilated by the plants roots mostly as nitrate ions. once in the plant the nitrate ions are converted into ammonium ions. the ammonium ions are the final product of this long and fascinating process. once the N has been assimilated into ammonium ions the ammonium is what the plant uses to build amino acids, chlorophyll and nucleic acids, which as you know are the fundamental building blocks to life. that's the basic logic behind why i am getting away with lower N levels in early flower/late veg. microbes microbes microbes. did i mention microbes? lol this is a little overly simplified. there is a lot more complexity to the exchange of amino acids between microbes and the plant but i don't feel like typing a whole thesis here atm. I have to say this little symbiotic relationship that goes on between microbe and plant is only just now beginning to be understood. its been a lot of fun putting all these theories and research to real life application in the cultivation of cannabis
okay im done. just wanted to explain a bit of reasoning behind my madness. this transittion period is the part of the plant cycle that i have really been working hard to understand, as i believe it is the most critical point in the entire cycle for the best end result. yes N is very important however u can cut the added N way back in the transition. let the microbes do the fine tuning for u in transition and see your nodes get tighter and tighter https://www.rollitup.org/t/3-pound-goal-48-oz-or-greater-4-plants-one-1000-watt-hps-scrog.836164/
↑
Nicely put there Bubba.!
Great posting, I enjoy the science you share. Your methods are, as I stated earlier, interesting!
And everyone should know that if it works for you.....It WORKS.
Thanks for sharing and I may just give your method a good old American try on a few with a side by side testing.
I sure don't have anything to loose by trying! (maybe some time and work, but I like to try out different things to "see" for myself).
There are things I will closely monitor when I do.
Trying is how we learn.
Grow on!
thank you Dr.! heck yeah thats what i always say! i love trying new techniques ive never tried or heard of science is my passion well i may like cannabis a little more but i am trying to put the latest scientific info i learn to use in a real life way. i always say the day i don't enjoy learning new things is they day i just need to give up. that technique takes some tinkering thats for sure! need to find the right live cultures to use in you region, grow room, media etc., as different ratios of different species in the culture will yield different results. the strain varies it a lot as well, i havent quite figured it out yet but there seems to be a big difference between incica and sativas in how they share proteins and molecules and how much they share. sativas from what ive seen so far, seem to react better than indicas when tampering with that delicate symbiosis. not to say it wont work in indicas by any means, i just havent dialed it in. i have Bubblicious (my more sativa strain) and OG18 X purple wreck (mostly OG indica pheno) the bubblicious responded very well to my little experiment. the POG went a little N deff early in bloom, resulted in super dense buds but the node spacing has def left something to be desired, it streched like CRAZY on me whereas the Bubblicious all tightened right up and turned out spectacular. this next crop i will have mostly POG growing since i feel like i have my Bubblicious mostly figured out now. im keeping fingers crossed it can go as well.
i have a bit of a theory as to why it doesn't work so well with indicas, mind you i have no proof or research to back up my thought process (i dont believe anybody has studied sybiosis of anyplants at altitude to my knowledge yet). indica is native to areas of a generally higher altitude, meaning that the air is thinner where they grow naturally. that makes me think that the plant does not rely as heavily on that symbiosis between microbes and plant as much since there is less N and less O to oxidize the ammonium into protein chains (amindo acids, clorophyl etc.). so it may just be a genetic pre-disposition of sativas to be able to manipulate growth by biological processes. idk i find it interesting to think about, but im just a science nerd lol im entertained by funny things like that
heres the explanation as to why this counter intuitive technique works well for meand yes my methods are a little different than most. after college i figured if u want to see something different u got to try something different, so i stepped out of my old "by the book" way of growing and haven't looked back since (i prefer going by the latest science). there is a lot of new research out there regarding the need for synthetic nitrogen. if you use a live culture of both aerobic and anaerobic microbes they are constantly decomposing elements into usable form for the plants. forgive me but this is going to get a little scientific here. to understand why and when the plant truly needs nitrogen u need a basic understanding of how N is converted to different forms.
the first step would be the conversion of atmospheric N (which is happening in your roots all the time) through a process called nitrogen fixation which is carried out by beneficial bacteria living in the root zone the (diazotrophs) combine hydrogen with nitrogen to produce ammonia (NH4) in a process called ammonification. this is important because the latest research has shown that when soils are lacking N these beneficial organisms will produce ammonia (which is converted to NO2 during nitrification by the oxidation of ammonium) in exchange for some carbohydrates. (another fascinating thing that is yet to be fully understood by the scientific community is the fact that the plant trades back some of the amino acids it produces back into the bacteria inorder to skip the whole process of ammonium assimilation process. however NO2 still cannot be used by the plant, this requires another step, yet again by the microbes you should be adding to your soil every month at least. once the nitrites (NO2) are converted by nitrifying bacteria into nitrates (NO3) which is important because nitrite is toxic to plants, the N can finally be assimilated by the plants roots mostly as nitrate ions. once in the plant the nitrate ions are converted into ammonium ions. the ammonium ions are the final product of this long and fascinating process. once the N has been assimilated into ammonium ions the ammonium is what the plant uses to build amino acids, chlorophyll and nucleic acids, which as you know are the fundamental building blocks to life. that's the basic logic behind why i am getting away with lower N levels in early flower/late veg. microbes microbes microbes. did i mention microbes? lol this is a little overly simplified. there is a lot more complexity to the exchange of amino acids between microbes and the plant but i don't feel like typing a whole thesis here atm. I have to say this little symbiotic relationship that goes on between microbe and plant is only just now beginning to be understood. its been a lot of fun putting all these theories and research to real life application in the cultivation of cannabis
okay im done. just wanted to explain a bit of reasoning behind my madness. this transittion period is the part of the plant cycle that i have really been working hard to understand, as i believe it is the most critical point in the entire cycle for the best end result. yes N is very important however u can cut the added N way back in the transition. let the microbes do the fine tuning for u in transition and see your nodes get tighter and tighter https://www.rollitup.org/t/3-pound-goal-48-oz-or-greater-4-plants-one-1000-watt-hps-scrog.836164/↑
Nicely put there Bubba.!
Great posting, I enjoy the science you share. Your methods are, as I stated earlier, interesting!
And everyone should know that if it works for you.....It WORKS.
Thanks for sharing and I may just give your method a good old American try on a few with a side by side testing.
I sure don't have anything to loose by trying! (maybe some time and work, but I like to try out different things to "see" for myself).
There are things I will closely monitor when I do.
Trying is how we learn.
Grow on!
thank you Dr.! heck yeah thats what i always say! i love trying new techniques ive never tried or heard of
science is my passion well i may like cannabis a little more but i am trying to put the latest scientific info i learn to use in a real life way. i always say the day i don't enjoy learning new things is they day i just need to give up. that technique takes some tinkering thats for sure! need to find the right live cultures to use in you region, grow room, media etc., as different ratios of different species in the culture will yield different results. the strain varies it a lot as well, i havent quite figured it out yet but there seems to be a big difference between incica and sativas in how they share proteins and molecules and how much they share. sativas from what ive seen so far, seem to react better than indicas when tampering with that delicate symbiosis. not to say it wont work in indicas by any means, i just havent dialed it in. i have Bubblicious (my more sativa strain) and OG18 X purple wreck (mostly OG indica pheno) the bubblicious responded very well to my little experiment. the POG went a little N deff early in bloom, resulted in super dense buds but the node spacing has def left something to be desired, it streched like CRAZY on me whereas the Bubblicious all tightened right up and turned out spectacular. this next crop i will have mostly POG growing since i feel like i have my Bubblicious mostly figured out now. im keeping fingers crossed it can go as well.i have a bit of a theory as to why it doesn't work so well with indicas, mind you i have no proof or research to back up my thought process (i dont believe anybody has studied sybiosis of anyplants at altitude to my knowledge yet). indica is native to areas of a generally higher altitude, meaning that the air is thinner where they grow naturally. that makes me think that the plant does not rely as heavily on that symbiosis between microbes and plant as much since there is less N and less O to oxidize the ammonium into protein chains (amindo acids, clorophyl etc.). so it may just be a genetic pre-disposition of sativas to be able to manipulate growth by biological processes. idk i find it interesting to think about, but im just a science nerd lol im entertained by funny things like that
Resinhound
Well-Known Member
Keep in mind if you are covering your plants with bags you are depriving them of airflow. This kind of thing can get you a nice case of bud rot in late flower, not to mention it's just plain bad all around for the health of the plant.
Mr.Marijuana420
Well-Known Member
I made a dark tent to flower some out early one year, and thats exactly what happened. Easily 100 degrees in there and humid with no airflow, and the buds finish at the hottest time of the year. This is a recipe for rot. Add the pain in the ass of going there twice a day for over two months, not worth it.
Amshif87
Well-Known Member
Most people will blackout at 7 pm and take the tarp off at 7am so the 12 hours of light the plant gets are the best 12. If you black out at noon you will lose the daylight from noon til 9:30 or whenever sun sets in your neck of the woods. Also when you take the bag off at midnight, instead of coming out to the sun, it will be coming out to 4-5 additional hours of darkness. Garbage bags work. Not ideal but they will work. contractor bags are better and It probably wouldn't hurt to put a white garbage bag on top of the black to reflect heat a bit
Amshif87
Well-Known Member
If he starts covering now he won't be covering til the end of flower. About halfway through natural light will have dropped down to the point where they continue to flower
Khronik kandy
Well-Known Member
Ok i in san diego to give ya a idea of my backyard sunlight will take off trash bags now at 9:30am and cover her up at 7pm i was gonna give it 24 hr of darkness but im still learning so i know the light cycle for flowering is 12/12 but to transition from Veg to bloom i follow the same light cycle thats where im confused i want to make sure i fully translation my seeds from veg into bloom I do have fans on and get to 85°-90°
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Amshif87
Well-Known Member
You are going to have to put on and remove the bags daily until the daylight hours drop. I'm way up north so I don't know when flowering starts naturally down there. I'd check with the locals and stop pulling tarp when everyone's full term plants start to flower. 24 hour of darkness is something that people use right before they switch the light cycle from 18/6 to 12/12. It is said to give plants a boost while transitioning, however this alone will not induce flowering a 12/12 schedule must be followed every day to do this.
Khronik kandy
Well-Known Member
Thats is what i thought im tryin to transition of my seeds from veg into bloom then do 12/12 but how do i for sure they have flowered ima have to get new panda wrap cuz trash bags burned one of my plants should i cut da top cuz i dont think it gonna grow back just look at what da trash bag did damn
edibleeater
Active Member
Hey KK. Looks like you're finished your plants in 5 gal containers? Is there anyway you can bring them inside for part of the day. Maybe inside of a shed or garage? As for the burnt plant I would cut off the damaged parts. Whether it's in veg or flower it will not come back.
Amshif87
Well-Known Member
Yeah cut it off it must be getting blasted with direct sun when the bag is on to be getting it hot enough to do that. What time was it covered at?
Khronik kandy
Well-Known Member
I think i put it on at 10 yesterday morning but they were in my greenhouse and panda wrap dont cover all my greenhouse so i put trash bags on them at took them off da next mornin
Larry {the} Gardener
Well-Known Member
12/12 is what indoor growers like to use because it is simple and easy. The light trigger for going into flower is less than 13 1/2 hours of sun {and said another way, more than 10 1/2 hours of dark} You need to figure out what time works best for you, and stick to it. Say your nights are already 9 hours long, so you would need to get your tarps {air flow, air flow, air flow} in place an hour and a half before dark. Then sometimes after dark, you go in and move them. This has to be done everyday, at as close to the same time as possible. Lots and lots of work. Look into auto's, or even the semiautomatics some breeders are making.
Most growers like the morning sun to dry the dew, so stretching the tarps in the PM is the most common method.
Most growers like the morning sun to dry the dew, so stretching the tarps in the PM is the most common method.
Larry {the} Gardener
Well-Known Member
It only needs to stay covered until good dark. Get it uncovered as quick as you can.
Khronik kandy
Well-Known Member
someone say to put it on at 7pm and take it off 7am i wish i had thought of that i was tryin to do 24 hrs but it got to hot so ima just let it do its own thing non of them have gown yet pollen sacks so im guessing they all female but something tells me thats not da case