DNC Email Leak

[Padawanbater2]

How much did media manipulation affect you or Ty? I'm pretty sure you think you are immune. So, you aren't affected but others are?

No, I'm sure I'm subject to a certain degree of media bias, too. But nowhere near the extent of your average American voter. Being consciously aware of the way the scam is perpetrated is the most effective weapon against it just like any other scam. Older Americans being affected the most;

Uninformed voters are the ones that fall for it and it's a really sad state of affairs when even some of the 'informed voters' excuse it

 

[Padawanbater2]

He ran against Hillary and her organization. It's basically the same organization and Democratic Party insiders that Nader ran against in 2004. Read his take on what it was like. They were dirty and did every trick they could to suck funds from him. That's politics in the real world. You seem to think that Hillary should have given Bernie a handicap. Really?

I can't believe you guys. What do you want? Maybe Bernie should have been just handed 100 delegates just to make it even?

Clinton was who the establishment picked preceding the 2008 election, then Obama received widespread support from the base, then the superdelegates and establishment switched to Obama, he promised Clinton a high cabinet position to vacate the race and endorse with the knowledge that she would be running in 2016 and he would endorse her. This has been in the works since AT LEAST 2008.

"Given Bernie a handicap"? By playing with a fair set of rules? Nader ran 3rd party, Sanders ran as a democrat, the DNC has rules that say they're supposed to remain neutral during the primary, the situation with Nader is completely different.

Why is it so hard for you to admit they didn't play fair and they cheated to get Clinton to the general? This is a fact, we know they colluded together. We know the media was involved which is actually illegal IIRC. Not sure on the actual law that was broken, but I'm pretty sure that's illegal.

 

[Fogdog]

These are the rules that have been identified as being broken by the DNC

There are no consequences I could find for breaking these rules, none of it is against the law

No, rules were broken. Why even have the rules if there are no consequences for breaking them?

How can you hold such a dismissive view of the blatant subversion of democracy in the democratic primary? They stole the election by breaking the DNCs own rules that aren't illegal (gee, I wonder why they're not illegal...). If Donald Trump or Bernie Sanders did the exact same thing, people would be screaming for legal action, but because it's Clinton, she and the DNC get another pass.

This is complete bullshit and you know it

I'm not holding a dismissive view. It is bullshit what happened. You are right in that without consequences and accountability those rules aren't worth shit. Guess what? The rules aren't worth shit. Why are you staying on as Democrats? This is how the party has operated for a really, really long time. I think it can change but it's going to take time. You seem to have expected it to change last year and only just now caught on to the idea that the rules were not written to protect the outsider from cronyism.

Hillary won the primaries.

If Hillary is stripped of her nomination because of this, I'll be glad. But she won't.

Hillary is running against Trump.

I'm voting for Hillary. I don't like her but I think there is a good possibility that she will be a good if not great president, certainly better than Trump.

Your vote won't count if you vote for Bernie. I'd rather see it go to the Green Party than be wasted but I respect your right to decide to do whatever you choose. I'd like it if you would respect my decision. I'll be glad to argue with you if you want to.

The time to work on campaign reform is in 2017.

What I'm not going to do is rage futilely and throw my vote in the toilet.

 

[Fogdog]

No, I'm sure I'm subject to a certain degree of media bias, too. But nowhere near the extent of your average American voter.

Uninformed voters are the ones that fall for it and it's a really sad state of affairs when even some of the 'informed voters' excuse it

There it is. You just said you are have superior powers of observation. This is the real problem with you guys. You talk as though you can see through the BS better than everybody else. What I'm saying is that you are wrong. People chose Hillary for their own reasons and not yours.

We don't really disagree about many things but on the ability of the average person to vote in their own best interest, we do. Very much so. You dismiss the ability of 14 million people to make a decision that is in their own interest. Because you chose differently.

 

[ttystikk]

I don't give a shit what you think or do or whatever.

How much did media manipulation affect you or Ty? I'm pretty sure you think you are immune. So, you aren't affected but others are?

We are outliers because we understood the implications of the vote. Most Americans by stark contrast did not. We are the politically interested 1%.

Yet another suddenly lame ass argument from someone who definitely can do better, and has in the recent past.

Wtf?

 

[ttystikk]

He ran against Hillary and her organization. It's basically the same organization and Democratic Party insiders that Nader ran against in 2004. Read his take on what it was like. They were dirty and did every trick they could to suck funds from him. That's politics in the real world. You seem to think that Hillary should have given Bernie a handicap. Really?

I can't believe you guys. What do you want? Maybe Bernie should have been just handed 100 delegates just to make it even?

WE WANT A LEVEL, IMPARTIAL PLAYING FIELD BECAUSE THAT WHAT DEMOCRACY DEMANDS.

Or are you seriously trying to tell us that you believe democracy can survive under a rigged system?

Because I do not.

 

[Fogdog]

We are outliers because we understood the implications of the vote. Most Americans by stark contrast did not. We are the politically interested 1%.

Yet another suddenly lame ass argument from someone who definitely can do better, and has in the recent past.

Wtf?

As I said to Paddy, you are now claiming to have superior powers of observation. Do you really think that? This is where you and I differ in that I believe that most people are able make choices that are in their own best interest.

What you are saying is that 14 million people chose wrongly, they are dupes. Because they did not agree with you. That sounds pretty arrogant and unjustified to me.

 

[Fogdog]

WE WANT A LEVEL, IMPARTIAL PLAYING FIELD BECAUSE THAT WHAT DEMOCRACY DEMANDS.

Or are you seriously trying to tell us that you believe democracy can survive under a rigged system?

Because I do not.

Well, now that we know you think you have superior powers, I think you can just go off and mutter to yourself. Because I don't think you are that smart. The idea that you are the top 1% in intellect is pretty much laughable.

I do not think that 14 million people were duped into voting against their best interest. For myself, I wasn't duped by your standards because I voted for Bernie. But because I differ with you on this and won't vote for Bernie because he isn't running for prez, then you now have proof that I'm not your equal.

I don't know why you spend the time trying to correct me. Maybe you should give up.

 

[ttystikk]

As I said to Paddy, you are now claiming to have superior powers of observation. Do you really think that? This is where you and I differ in that I believe that most people are able make choices that are in their own best interest.

What you are saying is that 14 million people chose wrongly, they are dupes. Because they did not agree with you. That sounds pretty arrogant and unjustified to me.

I claim no such thing and you'll refrain from sticking words in my mouth.

@Padawanbater2 and I were both clear about the fact that we chose to become very educated on the facts and the choices.

Speaking for myself, I can easily see where a lack of similar due diligence would certainly set me apart from the average American voter; but we aren't special, just perhaps less distracted and more interested in the outcome.

Your mischaracterisations of our self image and abilities are again a rather lame argument.

Most Americans are very swayed by the media they consume and this fact is well supported by studies. Mr Sanders' treatment in the media would certainly account for much of the vote 'gap', which was also affected by plenty of other shenanigans, as discussed above.

I'll vote for whom I please. You've already said you don't care.

 

[Fogdog]

WE WANT A LEVEL, IMPARTIAL PLAYING FIELD BECAUSE THAT WHAT DEMOCRACY DEMANDS.

Or are you seriously trying to tell us that you believe democracy can survive under a rigged system?

Because I do not.

Bernie never had a level playing field. He started late and didn't have enough money or organization to beat Hillary. Hillary gamed the system through and through.

Do you think politics is played like a soccer match? It has been a dirty game for a long, long time. Call it what you like but it is the same system that we've had for about 200 years and it is called Democracy. 14 million people disagreed with you and Paddy. Because you are superior, you can say they are wrong. I don't say that however.

 

[ttystikk]

Well, now that we know you think you have superior powers, I think you can just go off and mutter to yourself. Because I don't think you are that smart. The idea that you are the top 1% in intellect is pretty much laughable.

I do not think that 14 million people were duped into voting against their best interest. For myself, I wasn't duped by your standards because I voted for Bernie. But because I differ with you on this and won't vote for Bernie because he isn't running for prez, then you now have proof that I'm not your equal.

I don't know why you spend the time trying to correct me. Maybe you should give up.

STRAW MAN; dr

 

[Fogdog]

I claim no such thing and you'll refrain from sticking words in my mouth.

@Padawanbater2 and I were both clear about the fact that we chose to become very educated on the facts and the choices.

Speaking for myself, I can easily see where a lack of similar due diligence would certainly set me apart from the average American voter; but we aren't special, just perhaps less distracted and more interested in the outcome.

Your mischaracterisations of our self image and abilities are again a rather lame argument.

Most Americans are very swayed by the media they consume and this fact is well supported by studies. Mr Sanders' treatment in the media would certainly account for much of the vote 'gap', which was also affected by plenty of other shenanigans, as discussed above.

I'll vote for whom I please. You've already said you don't care.

No, man, you just said you have superior powers of observation. And I'm not letting that go. This is exactly what's wrong with the Bernie baby movement.

 

[ttystikk]

Bernie never had a level playing field. He started late and didn't have enough money or organization to beat Hillary. Hillary gamed the system through and through.

Do you think politics is played like a soccer match? It has been a dirty game for a long, long time. Call it what you like but it is the same system that we've had for about 200 years and it is called Democracy. 14 million people disagreed with you and Paddy. Because you are superior, you can say they are wrong. I don't say that however.

Of course politics is a dirty game; which is why it needs rules. Rules that are enforced, or we have chaos.

Pander to and shill for whom you like.

 

[ttystikk]

No, man, you just said you have superior powers of observation. And I'm not letting that go. This is exactly what's wrong with the Bernie baby movement.

You're playing straw man games again;

At least get my quote right; I said were the politically interested 1%, not the smartest, not the most astute - we just give a shit in a land where most have given up caring about their political representation, and are suffering the consequences.

 

[Olive Drab Green]

So any clue who is more likely to win? Pretty sure GOP took a publicly oppositional stance on cannabis recently. That doesn't bode well for us.

 

[Fogdog]

Of course politics is a dirty game; which is why it needs rules. Rules that are enforced, or we have chaos.

Pander to and shill for whom you like.

What you said: "Speaking for myself, I can easily see where a lack of similar due diligence would certainly set me apart from the average American voter; but we aren't special, just perhaps less distracted and more interested in the outcome."

Who are you to dismiss the ability of other people to decide for themselves what is in their own interest. This unjustified arrogance is really the nut of what is wrong with Bernie babies.

 

[ttystikk]

No, man, you just said you have superior powers of observation. And I'm not letting that go. This is exactly what's wrong with the Bernie baby movement.

I said no such thing. Quote it or stop lying about my words.

 

[Fogdog]

I said no such thing. Quote it or stop lying about my words.

What you said: "Speaking for myself, I can easily see where a lack of similar due diligence would certainly set me apart from the average American voter; but we aren't special, just perhaps less distracted and more interested in the outcome."

Who are you to dismiss the ability of other people to decide for themselves what is in their own interest. This unjustified arrogance is really the nut of what is wrong with Bernie babies.

 

[ttystikk]

What you said: "Speaking for myself, I can easily see where a lack of similar due diligence would certainly set me apart from the average American voter; but we aren't special, just perhaps less distracted and more interested in the outcome."

Who are you to dismiss the ability of other people to decide for themselves what is in their own interest. This unjustified arrogance is really the nut of what is wrong with Bernie babies.

I listen to others, and the vast, VAST majority tell me the above. They don't have time, they don't care, they don't see it as relevant to their lives. That leaves those of us who do care, and we are definitely in the minority.

That's their choice, but to say that uninformed guesswork is as valid as considered inquiry is idiocy, of the very sort you've been spewing of late. Very out of character for you.

 

[Fogdog]

So any clue who is more likely to win? Pretty sure GOP took a publicly oppositional stance on cannabis recently. That doesn't bode well for us.

Man, I hope we can change the subject. Thanks for this.

That's it. Is anybody really surprised that Trump would change his stance on this? So, now, at least there is one issue people on this board can at least agree upon.