supercritical co2 extraction - diy community?

[schnooby]

ok so recently ive been looking into the technology behind this up and coming extraction process thats poised to dominate the market very soon. I think the superiority of the method speaks for itself......a closed loop system using a recoverable solvent which is entirely harmless even if not fully purged and producing a very high quality and quantity of extract.

The only problem? The price of admission,


So what i propose, if there isnt already such a thing on these forums, is a community project wherein we share any info especially related to low cost diy alternatives which can level the playing field a bit so those of us who dont have 100k lying around have a better chance at getting in in the action.

obviously there are youtube vids of amatures out there doing some pretty cool diy setups......so.....if anyones interested in getting a reservoir of useful info on getting into this maybe this thread can be a launching point, if there isnt already one such....?


Thanks....

 

[Twitch]

I think someone used a co2 tank filled it with material then put co2 in it... this was also oilmaker who did it so not advised. Also there is co2 extracts all over and they are not dominating the market.

 

[schnooby]

Twitch im not sure what process youre referring to, but the one im talking about is a very specific TYPE or application of using co2 as a solvent in a closed loop system under VERY high pressures sometimes exceeding 2 or 3 thousand psi. Please view the following videos and tell me if you think we are talking about the same thing.....

 

[Twitch]

Yep co2 oil retains alot of water and actually has a shelf life I have see co2 oil after 30 days start darkening up. The outside would have a layer that appeared to turn darker due to being exposed by air, people had complained it lost potency. The dispensary give it to me to process into an absolute. I have a thread some where that shows the co2 wash its actually pretty gross all the waxes and shit that was pulled out. It was like 12% waxes 8% water I can't remember.

 

[schnooby]

Thats curious because if true there are alot of companies selling extremely expensive machines for a product of questionable quality and storage potential......

 

[Twitch]

This is true, do you live in a med state? Most med states have shops that carry co2 oil, alot of it goes into cartridges or syriges then you will see co2 cake oil which is like the second videos consistency you see dumping out of the machine.

 

[KLITE]

Yep co2 oil retains alot of water and actually has a shelf life I have see co2 oil after 30 days start darkening up. The outside would have a layer that appeared to turn darker due to being exposed by air, people had complained it lost potency. The dispensary give it to me to process into an absolute. I have a thread some where that shows the co2 wash its actually pretty gross all the waxes and shit that was pulled out. It was like 12% waxes 8% water I can't remember.

I only came across co2 extracts myself a few times out here in barcelona, and the residue left on the nail when i tried them made me reach a similar conclusion. Co2 must pick up the larger molecules in comparisson to other solvents. I wouldnt buy it over some nice shatter.

 

[Fadedawg]

ok so recently ive been looking into the technology behind this up and coming extraction process thats poised to dominate the market very soon. I think the superiority of the method speaks for itself......a closed loop system using a recoverable solvent which is entirely harmless even if not fully purged and producing a very high quality and quantity of extract.

The only problem? The price of admission,


So what i propose, if there isnt already such a thing on these forums, is a community project wherein we share any info especially related to low cost diy alternatives which can level the playing field a bit so those of us who dont have 100k lying around have a better chance at getting in in the action.

obviously there are youtube vids of amatures out there doing some pretty cool diy setups......so.....if anyones interested in getting a reservoir of useful info on getting into this maybe this thread can be a launching point, if there isnt already one such....?


Thanks....

We've done passive SCFE CO2 extraction, which works, but the results were disappointing from the standpoint of aroma, flavor, and appearance. What we discovered is that more CO2 volume and more precise pressure control are required for more pristine results, and watching the big boys with their expensive toys, has demonstrated the value of fractionating on decompression.

SCFE CO2 works, and with the right equipment and process can produce good results, but in my experience not cheaply or very fast. As noted, most of the SCFE CO2 extracts in these parts are going into carts and medibles, so appearance

 

[Crippykeeper]

We've done passive SCFE CO2 extraction, which works, but the results were disappointing from the standpoint of aroma, flavor, and appearance. What we discovered is that more CO2 volume and more precise pressure control are required for more pristine results, and watching the big boys with their expensive toys, has demonstrated the value of fractionating on decompression.

SCFE CO2 works, and with the right equipment and process can produce good results, but in my experience not cheaply or very fast. As noted, most of the SCFE CO2 extracts in these parts are going into carts and medibles, so appearance

Good afternoon is it possible to achieve stable oil / shatter from co2 extract ?

 

[Fadedawg]

Good afternoon is it possible to achieve stable oil / shatter from co2 extract ?

I don't know. I wasn't able to with my passive extractor and haven't seen any CO2 shatter done by others. I have sampled fractionated CO2 extracts, with terpenes added back, which were delightful and that would compete very competitively in a blindfold test.

For what it's worth, I dab everything from "poo" to gem quality shatters, and some times the poo has better aroma, flavor, and effects, which is how I judge my personal stash.

I will leave answering the shatter question to the CO2 extractors on forum.

 

[Crippykeeper]

I don't know. I wasn't able to with my passive extractor and haven't seen any CO2 shatter done by others. I have sampled fractionated CO2 extracts, with terpenes added back, which were delightful and that would compete very competitively in a blindfold test.

For what it's worth, I dab everything from "poo" to gem quality shatters, and some times the poo has better aroma, flavor, and effects, which is how I judge my personal stash.

I will leave answering the shatter question to the CO2 extractors on forum.

thank you for the response. the reason I'm asking is I have someone about to pull the trigger on a 20l scfe set up and for the cost i want to make sure we can produce some quality oil not just in potency but in appearance as well. if i am not mistaken the system were gonna be looking at has automated fractioning capabilities. thanks again for any info really appreciated.

 

[BobCajun]

Maybe a different supercritical compound would be better than CO2 for the purpose. See this article abstract about extracting terps from orange rinds with supercritical ethane. Probably much like butane, same family. Though actually it's very dangerous to handle and would have similar drawbacks to butane. There's supercritical water, but the temp is in the 300s C and it also dissolves polar stuff. I think plain old alcohol or ethyl acetate would be as good as the supercriticals and relatively safe and convenient to work with.

 

[Crippykeeper]

Maybe a different supercritical compound would be better than CO2 for the purpose. See this article abstract about extracting terps from orange rinds with supercritical ethane. Probably much like butane, same family. Though actually it's very dangerous to handle and would have similar drawbacks to butane. There's supercritical water, but the temp is in the 300s C and it also dissolves polar stuff. I think plain old alcohol or ethyl acetate would be as good as the supercriticals and relatively safe and convenient to work with.

Thank you. Due to zoning issues we cant use flammable/explosive solvents. going to a demo in a few weeks at eden labs to see the unit at work and to learn the process their automated unit has fractioning settings so perhaps they will demo some way of making stable co2 oil. thanks again for the response

 

[BobCajun]

Thank you. Due to zoning issues we cant use flammable/explosive solvents. going to a demo in a few weeks at eden labs to see the unit at work and to learn the process their automated unit has fractioning settings so perhaps they will demo some way of making stable co2 oil. thanks again for the response

There's always chloroform too, which is non-flammable and supposedly the best solvent for Cannabis, leaving virtually no residue. From a paper called THC Resin Extraction;

"The best solvent found to date is chloroform. It is non-flammable, which makes it safer to handle than ethanol. Further, it has a low boiling point (61 C., 142 F.), and a residue after evaporation of .0005 percent. This low residue percentage means that virtually no trace solvent remains to contaminate the oil and cause an aftertaste, which is usually a problem encountered with ethanol unless time-consuming distillation processes are used. Another important concern is that chlorophyll is relatively insoluble in chloroform, eliminating the heavy "green" taste that always results from ethanol extractions."

Closed loop chloroform extraction may be feasible. Obviously the vapors would be dangerous. I don't know if regs would allow the use of chloroform or not. People may think it's too toxic or something. Here's a pdf article about extracting with it.

 

[Crippykeeper]

There's always chloroform too, which is non-flammable and supposedly the best solvent for Cannabis, leaving virtually no residue. From a paper called THC Resin Extraction;

"The best solvent found to date is chloroform. It is non-flammable, which makes it safer to handle than ethanol. Further, it has a low boiling point (61 C., 142 F.), and a residue after evaporation of .0005 percent. This low residue percentage means that virtually no trace solvent remains to contaminate the oil and cause an aftertaste, which is usually a problem encountered with ethanol unless time-consuming distillation processes are used. Another important concern is that chlorophyll is relatively insoluble in chloroform, eliminating the heavy "green" taste that always results from ethanol extractions."

Closed loop chloroform extraction may be feasible. Obviously the vapors would be dangerous.

Hats of to you sir I've

There's always chloroform too, which is non-flammable and supposedly the best solvent for Cannabis, leaving virtually no residue. From a paper called THC Resin Extraction;

"The best solvent found to date is chloroform. It is non-flammable, which makes it safer to handle than ethanol. Further, it has a low boiling point (61 C., 142 F.), and a residue after evaporation of .0005 percent. This low residue percentage means that virtually no trace solvent remains to contaminate the oil and cause an aftertaste, which is usually a problem encountered with ethanol unless time-consuming distillation processes are used. Another important concern is that chlorophyll is relatively insoluble in chloroform, eliminating the heavy "green" taste that always results from ethanol extractions."

Closed loop chloroform extraction may be feasible. Obviously the vapors would be dangerous.

i had never heard about chloroform for extractions thanks for the knowledge. I'm going to read up on it see what end product looks like but I believe it would pass the zoning issue. Much appreciated

 

[BobCajun]

Hats of to you sir I've

i had never heard about chloroform for extractions thanks for the knowledge. I'm going to read up on it see what end product looks like but I believe it would pass the zoning issue. Much appreciated

I guess it's on the DEA watched chem list, but if you're legal it wouldn't matter. Just be careful because I'm sure you know that it will knock you out like an anesthetic.

 

[BobCajun]

Actually I found out that chloroform degrades to phosgene while stored, so not a good idea to use it after all. Apparently "ionic liquids" are the safest and non flammable. Just look for patents and articles about extractions with ionic liquids.

 

[Crippykeeper]

Actually I found out that chloroform degrades to phosgene while stored, so not a good idea to use it after all. Apparently "ionic liquids" are the safest and non flammable. Just look for patents and articles about extractions with ionic liquids.

I'll look into that thank you

 

[BobCajun]

I'll look into that thank you

Here's an example where they extracted Rosemary with it. Carnosic acid is very much like THCA so it would be similar conditions. Here's one where they used a microwave to speed up the extraction, different type of plant though.

Apparently the best ones to use would be 1-Butyl-3-methylimidazolium bromide or 1-octyl-3-methylimidazolium bromide. I guess you make a 1m solution in water and extract with that, then to recover the extract I guess you would add more water until it precipitates. I don't know where to buy the ionic liquids, don't seem to be very common.

 

[BobCajun]

I was reading an article about CO2 extraction of Cannabis and they showed comparisons with regular solvents like ethanol and hexane. CO2 extracts a lot more cannabinoids but very little terpenes and waxes. That's why CO2 extracts don't have the flavor and aroma of BHO and other solvent extracts. It had about 1/30th as much terps as I recall. So potency yes, but lack of flavor/aroma. I guess it depends what your priorities are. For medical purposes the flavor is unimportant but for recreational it could be a factor.