Hillary Supporters Want To Repeal 2nd Amendment

[bluntmassa1]

France, united kingdom, Belgium, Germany

Jamaica, Brazil, Mexico....

 

[Rizlared]

...any 'first world' nations?

 

[Rizlared]

I think you will find I said 'gun availability' and 'gun violence' are directly related.

guns are widely available in the places you mention

 

[Rizlared]

weed is slightly different, that can be homegrown.

The war on drugs ensured control and supply to the cia

 

[Rob Roy]

You Americans do seem to have a fixation with guns?!?

It's fucking crazy

Whatever your opinion, the inescapable fact is, the greater the availability of guns the more people die at the hands of them.

The gun lobby has lots of money though.

People are so easily brainwashed, controlled.

Do you think government should use guns to enforce any gun confiscation laws ?

Would that be an example of people being brainwashed and controlled?

 

[schuylaar]

Can you quote where I ever said she killed anyone?
Can you quote were I ever said she rigged the election?

You seem butthurt.

Haven't you guys kissed and made up yet?

 

[schuylaar]

sheskunk, does your probation office know you're trolling on a marijuana forum? you should consider asking them.

Shhhhhhhh! That's why he uses her.

 

[Rizlared]

Do you think government should use guns to enforce any gun confiscation laws ?

Would that be an example of people being brainwashed and controlled?

oh wow.

Thank you, you have genuinely made me think about my position.

Ok, I don't think that is an example of brainwashing (although I may be missing an angle I haven't already considered)
but I do think it challenges my views on armed police.

I will attempt to answer but first, why do people feel the need to own or want guns? I don't understand this, genuinely

I think, unfortunately, it's probably inevitable that those who's job it is to remove guns from society would have to be armed equally as those they are taking them from.

Guns should never have been allowed, made legal, that simple.

As that genie is out of the bag I guess the best way forward is to a) make ownership illegal AFTER a certain date, all firearms to be handed in.
B) compensate ALL those who comply before that date
C) criminalise those who don't comply and then enforce

It might get messy but looking at the murder stats in the USA, shit is already messy.

Ideally, after a time, you could then have a discussion about disarming the cops

Just riffing here.

Feel free to correct me

 

[Flaming Pie]

oh wow.

Thank you, you have genuinely made me think about my position.

Ok, I don't think that is an example of brainwashing (although I may be missing an angle I haven't already considered)
but I do think it challenges my views on armed police.

I will attempt to answer but first, why do people feel the need to own or want guns? I don't understand this, genuinely

I think, unfortunately, it's probably inevitable that those who's job it is to remove guns from society would have to be armed equally as those they are taking them from.

Guns should never have been allowed, made legal, that simple.

As that genie is out of the bag I guess the best way forward is to a) make ownership illegal AFTER a certain date, all firearms to be handed in.
B) compensate ALL those who comply before that date
C) criminalise those who don't comply and then enforce

It might get messy but looking at the murder stats in the USA, shit is already messy.

Ideally, after a time, you could then have a discussion about disarming the cops

Just riffing here.

Feel free to correct me

Again, correlation does not equal causation.

Poverty, mismanagement of public funds, permanent criminal status, jailed for life fathers, antagonizers and so on, all have a combined affect of making crime more prevalent.

More guns does not cause more crime. More guns does not prevent crime either imo. They aren't really related.

 

[Unclebaldrick]

just wow.

 

[Rizlared]

I understand your view on an intellectual level but how does that sit with

More guns = more gun crime?

 

[Rizlared]

There is a correlation between smoking and cancer but the tobacco industry wouldn't acknowledge a causal link.

The same trick is employed by the gun lobby group

 

[Flaming Pie]

I understand your view on an intellectual level but how does that sit with

More guns = more gun crime?

Sorry. Could you please rephrase that? I am not sure what you are asking me.

 

[Flaming Pie]

There is a correlation between smoking and cancer but the tobacco industry wouldn't acknowledge a causal link.

The same trick is employed by the gun lobby group

They are two different animals. Smoking can cause lung and gum cancer because the smoke comes into contact with those parts. Kind of like water sitting on untreated metal. It will rust eventually.

Crime on the other hand has multiple influences and causes. Since the Jim crow era, politicians and private citizens have been doing their best to hold back the potential of black americans. Red lining, underfunding the schools and police in black neighborhoods, drug laws that permanently strip citizens of their access to aid for school/food/housing, and aggressively targeting black communities has led to them distrusting authority.

So you have large communities with inadequate education, lacking police protection, and the current economy hurts black youth who are looking for jobs.

All of these causes lead to increased crime.

 

[Rizlared]

They are two different animals. Smoking can cause lung and gum cancer because the smoke comes into contact with those parts. Kind of like water sitting on untreated metal. It will rust eventually.

Crime on the other hand has multiple influences and causes. Since the Jim crow era, politicians and private citizens have been doing their best to hold back the potential of black americans. Red lining, underfunding the schools and police in black neighborhoods, drug laws that permanently strip citizens of their access to aid for school/food/housing, and aggressively targeting black communities has led to them distrusting authority.

So you have large communities with inadequate education, lacking police protection, and the current economy hurts black youth who are looking for jobs.

All of these causes lead to increased crime.

I dispute non of this.

Let's take an extreme scenario, given the factors that you mention, if there were zero guns...non at all, how many deaths by gun crime would there be?

Obviously none.

So there you have in play all of the factors that contribute to crime yet no gun crime.

More availability of guns = more gun crime.

The cause of crime will always need addressing but as long as guns are available, gun crime will exist

 

[Rizlared]

Perhaps someone, I did ask earlier, can explain to me the appeal of gun ownership?

 

[Flaming Pie]

I dispute non of this.

Let's take an extreme scenario, given the factors that you mention, if there were zero guns...non at all, how many deaths by gun crime would there be?

Obviously none.

So there you have in play all of the factors that contribute to crime yet no gun crime.

More availability of guns = more gun crime.

The cause of crime will always need addressing but as long as guns are available, gun crime will exist

Would those crime have happened without guns? Could someone use a bomb to achieve the same or better results? How about a vehicle or setting
fire to property?

Will outlawing guns restrict access to guns for criminals?

The US border is permeable to all sorta of smuggling. Do you think that more or less guns will be smuggled in the case of a ban?

 

[Flaming Pie]

Perhaps someone, I did ask earlier, can explain to me the appeal of gun ownership?

It depends on the person. For me history plays a large role.

How familiar are you with U.S. history?

 

[Rob Roy]

oh wow.

Thank you, you have genuinely made me think about my position.

Ok, I don't think that is an example of brainwashing (although I may be missing an angle I haven't already considered)
but I do think it challenges my views on armed police.

I will attempt to answer but first, why do people feel the need to own or want guns? I don't understand this, genuinely

I think, unfortunately, it's probably inevitable that those who's job it is to remove guns from society would have to be armed equally as those they are taking them from.

Guns should never have been allowed, made legal, that simple.

As that genie is out of the bag I guess the best way forward is to a) make ownership illegal AFTER a certain date, all firearms to be handed in.
B) compensate ALL those who comply before that date
C) criminalise those who don't comply and then enforce

It might get messy but looking at the murder stats in the USA, shit is already messy.

Ideally, after a time, you could then have a discussion about disarming the cops

Just riffing here.

Feel free to correct me

Thank you for being open minded.

People have guns for lots of reasons, but I'd say the main one for many people is to exert defensive force if someone else is attempting to use offensive force on them. Everybody should be able to defend themselves from aggressors.

I'd say the main reason unreasonable people have guns is because their ideas suck and a gun allows them to gain what they couldn't, by using offensive force (or threats of it) . Government as an entity fits into that category.


I sure hope you consider every time you ask government to enforce your wishes against people who aren't doing anything to you, you are in a sense asking for gun violence to be initiated.

It is an indisputable fact that government's persuasion tool is not reason, instead it is violent threats for noncompliance... using a gun.

 

[Rob Roy]

I dispute non of this.

Let's take an extreme scenario, given the factors that you mention, if there were zero guns...non at all, how many deaths by gun crime would there be?

Obviously none.

So there you have in play all of the factors that contribute to crime yet no gun crime.

More availability of guns = more gun crime.

The cause of crime will always need addressing but as long as guns are available, gun crime will exist

Is that your neighbor's sign?