Water quality reports and chlorine

[Douglas.Curtis]

• Glyphosate impairs male offspring reproductive development by disrupting gonadotropin expression
• Developmental and reproductive outcomes in humans and animals after glyphosate exposure: a critical analysis.
• Chronic Health Hazard Assessments for Noncarcinogenic Effects
• Effects of Glyphosate and its Formulation, Roundup, on Reproduction in Zebra fish (Danio rerio)

Talk about knowing what isn't so. The only reason glyphosate is still being used is because of profits. This took me 6 minutes to find the links, I didn't have to dig for them either. Go look up glyphosate and the magnesium/zinc biomatrix issue, for some really interesting reading. I'd have to dig for the 22 year presence info, it's around somewhere.

I'm done with this subject. Anyone with 3 brain cells left can figure out there's plenty of evidence glyphosate is dangerous. Time will prove it out, after a lot more suffering goes on. Have a great day
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22202229

 

[Uncle Ben]

"A lot of suffering goes on" because of folks like you spreading propaganda from non-credible sources that parrot data which has been derived via far fetched applications, dosages, and non-real world methods, etc. I see this kind of faulty "science" all the time like when someone with an agenda doses a bee hive with a spray of imidacloprid and then goes, "see, that chemical is the sole cause of bee CCD". For example in one of the studies they use an ourageous large dose to script a conclusion they wish to see:

Chemical Exposures. Chemical exposure was conducted
via a flow through system for a period of 21 days in accordance
with OECD guidelines for fish reproductive tests, preceded by a
10 day pre-exposure period.36 The treatment groups consisted
of three concentrations of Roundup; 0.01, 0.5, and 10 mg/L
glyphosate acid equivalent....

....this after actually acknowledging real world circumstances:

Glyphosate is known to strongly adsorp to soil, where it is
subject to microbial degradation. This is one of glyphosate’s
advantageous herbicidal properties, limiting agricultural input
to surface waters in ideal conditions.

I've been using glyphosate for 35 years both on a personal and commercial basis with no ill affects to my well, rainwater collection system or personal and environmental health so don't give me none of your bullshit like your original outrageous crap that my rainwater has been tainted. Even 2-4D, a broad leaved herbicide known to gas off a bit won't do that. I doubt if you ever laid your hands on a gallon much less read the label or talked to an ag expert.

 

[Uncle Ben]

Like saying that it causes cancer, there are multiple independent organizations like the WHO that have tested and found it is NOT A CARCINOGEN when used as intended. The EU study is not even testing Roundup in an applicable use, it is literally taking the raw chemical and trying to make it cause cancer, as we all know almost anything causes cancer if u try to make it cause cancer, aka the sun, your microwave, cell phone and a million other SAFE PRODUCTS.

Yep. Probably the worst of the worst of all these dishonest "experts" are the ones trying to convince sucker bets that GMO foods are unhealthy when hundreds of scientific studies have proven otherwise. Same goes for the gluten free debacle. There's a sucker born every minute.

 

[GrowerGoneWild]

Talk about knowing what isn't so. The only reason glyphosate is still being used is because of profits. This took me 6 minutes to find the links, I didn't have to dig for them either. Go look up glyphosate and the magnesium/zinc biomatrix issue, for some really interesting reading. I'd have to dig for the 22 year presence info, it's around somewhere.

I'm done with this subject. Anyone with 3 brain cells left can figure out there's plenty of evidence glyphosate is dangerous. Time will prove it out, after a lot more suffering goes on. Have a great day

Whats your concern?.. Does your water test positive for Glypho?.. The concern about it being present in clays is overstated, I dont farm in clay dominant soils, I'll top dress with organic top layer, and that will take care of roundup if it does happen to be in there.

Glyphosate is known to strongly adsorp to soil, where it is
subject to microbial degradation. This is one of glyphosate’s
advantageous herbicidal properties, limiting agricultural input
to surface waters in ideal conditions.

I've been using glyphosate for 35 years both on a personal and commercial basis with no ill affects to my well, rainwater collection system or personal and environmental health so don't give me none of your bullshit like your original outrageous crap that my rainwater has been tainted. Even 2-4D, a broad leaved herbicide known to gas off a bit won't do that. I doubt if you ever laid your hands on a gallon much less read the label or talked to an ag expert.

Yup, anybody that has used it knows it degrades fairly quickly. I have doubts if the person complaining about Roundup actually knows if its a post or pre emergent herbicide, its classified as "caution" for the warning. I totally understand why its so popular, labor is expensive to hand weed stuff. I'm not gonna do a shooter of it but used correctly its a safe herbicide.

 

[Michiganmeds1982]

There's a few reports on youtube, and on the Dudegrows (scotty) says that chloramines in water has little effect on bacterial colonies, If using an inoculant to start a culture, I would use water that does not have chlorine in it.. I can say for sure, wetting a compost pile with city chlorinated tap
does not slow it down.

If you are concerned about chloramines, I used to use sodium thiosulfate to dechlorinate the water.. Should be cost effective vs. RO. However a carbon filter will remove the chlorine, and is even cheaper than Thiosulfate. I had dechlorination verified with a test after it was ran through my filter. Stoped using thiosulfate after no chlorine was verified in zero tap.

Stopped using a filter, after letting water "sit" in a 50 gallon trash container to let chloramines evaporate off when growing with natural ammended soil.

If you're worried about not getting enough microbes, brew up an AACT.. Apply once a week. I always have one going,

What is a AACT? And how do I brew one up?

 

[Bareback]

Curious to why growers do this, I have read thats its called 'gassing off' but im a bit in confused to why it wants to gas off in a weed reservoir and not the water pipes it comes from?

The pipes are sealed and under pressure, giving chorine in a solid state no where to go while chorine in a storage tank will evaporate in the form of gas. Does this help, I hope I'm right.

 

[GrowerGoneWild]

What is a AACT? And how do I brew one up?

Air Activated Compost Tea. I just get some water, some compost, or other starter, dirt from the forest etc. and some sugar or whatever, even ground up leaves from pruning, and mix it up, agitate for a few days and then look at it under a microscope to see what I got I can adjust the mix to get fungal or bacterial activity. I just keep a perpetual tea going. I just put some water or other liquid kitchen waste in there like bad fruit, or whatever, leftover oatmeal.. and since I can verify what kind of tea I make, I'm not stuck on any one method. I put plain tap water to AACT's with no problems with microbe activity..

There's all kinds of formulas and methods on the web for AACT. What matters to me is I can verify my output.

But plain old vegtable compost will work fine for deactivating chloramines, there's no way it could oxidize say a handfull of compost thrown into a 5 gallon bucket, or will the chloramines kill off enough bacteria to be a problem if you're watering onto soil with a compost topdress, in reality.. the chorlamines are supposed to be active till it exits your tap for sanitary water. Its not going to have much sanitizing power, when you pour it onto dirt.

Either way, adding AACT or compost (I prefer veggie based compost vermicompost is better) will boost microbe activity if you think chlorinated tap water is hurting the microlife...

 

[GrowerGoneWild]

Fungal dominant tea brewed with plain old chlorinated city tap water.. Plenty of bacteria in there too.

 

[SPLFreak808]

Watering a gallon 3 times a week for 10 weeks is roughly 120ppm Cl if you DONT let it evaporate.
i know the thread is a tad old but I'll just leave this here.

 

[Uncle Ben]

View attachment 3778462

Fungal dominant tea brewed with plain old chlorinated city tap water.. Plenty of bacteria in there too.

Pot growers, mainly newbies just starting out, will make this gardening thing as complicated and confusing as they can. Years ago I lived 1/2 mile from a water treatment plant where the PPM of chlorine was at its highest. I used to water from the bottom up occasionally by dropping them in a sink that I slowly filled with water. Plants loved the bath. Didn't worry about no bacteria stuff either.

 

[Uncle Ben]

View attachment 3778471 View attachment 3778472 View attachment 3778473

Watering a gallon 3 times a week for 10 weeks is roughly 120ppm Cl if you DONT let it evaporate.
i know the thread is a tad old but I'll just leave this here.

Nice chart. Different plants uptake at different ratios or require NPK and other elements in different amounts. Sinse cannabis is nothing more than a flowering tropical foliage plant a NPK ratio of 3-1-2 is best. FWIW, it's also what's found in leaf tissue analysis for other tropical plants like citrus. Whatever you use P should always be lower than the other two.

 

[SPLFreak808]

Nice chart. Different plants uptake at different ratios or require NPK and other elements in different amounts. Sinse cannabis is nothing more than a flowering tropical foliage plant a NPK ratio of 3-1-2 is best. FWIW, it's also what's found in leaf tissue analysis for other tropical plants like citrus. Whatever you use P should always be lower than the other two.

True.. Just pointing out that Cl wont harm in small amounts.

 

[Skunk Baxter]

Different people have different views on chlorine and chloramine, but I tend to prefer water without either. I brew a lot of teas. I know, on a logical level, that the amount of chlorine in city water is almost certainly not going to affect my microherd, but I usually bubble it out anyway. 24 hours is good enough for me.

If you're concerned about it, you could also try a little vitamin C. Ascorbic acid neutralizes both chlorine and chloramine. 250 mg for a 25 or 30 gallon reservoir is more than enough for 4 PPM chlorine, and some studies suggest ascorbic acid helps the plants grow better. I'd suggest doing it before you adjust pH, though.

 

[Marksurfs]

I don't know if this will post, but Hi Ben I know Butcher Bob has been in contact with you , I've been trying to talk with you but so far haven't been able to send messages here . Hope all is well my friend ! Marksurfs .......

 

[Uncle Ben]

I don't know if this will post, but Hi Ben I know Butcher Bob has been in contact with you , I've been trying to talk with you but so far haven't been able to send messages here . Hope all is well my friend ! Marksurfs .......

Hi there, good to hear you still alive & kicking and chasing rats like the rest of us.

Long live OG and the good ol times!

later....

 

[Porky101]

Hi all,

I work in water treatment and have setup over 50 large scale water treatment plants.

I read this page and it seems people here are worried that chlorine can harm your plants.

The answer to this question is based purely on dosages. In high enough dosages chlorine Is toxic to humans, animals, plants and all aquatic life.

Chlorine is also carcinogenic. Chlorination leads to halogenated tri-halomethane disinfection by products, which have been proven to be cancer causing agents. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1257669/)

That being said, if your dosage of free chlorine (not actual chlorine) is less than 100ppm then your plants should be more than happy to drink the water.

Chlorine gets "used" up by reacting with organics. If you are growing in soil or coco then that will naturally de-activate the chlorine in the water as the chlorine will try and oxidise or react with the organics in coco / soil etc. This is bad because this reaction will create tri-halomethane by products which are limited to 1ppb due to its carcinogenic properties. I don't think this will harm the plants, but the waste water could allow exposure to a human/animal etc.

As Chlorine is an oxidizer it is possible for cl to oxidise metals into non-dissolvable forms. Making nutrient absorption of manganese and iron impossible.(this holds true for any oxidant aswell) (like ozone).

Cl can also have adverse effects on cation exchange bearing mediums due to its strong oxidisation potential. This holds true for any other oxidants aswell. (like ozone).

If you are growing in pure water, the cl will off-gas fairly quickly into the air. I wouldn't worry too much about it. Most taps are aerated so when you use the water the CL has already been aerated out of the water. This also increases the dissolved oxygen in water as it can take upto 5 days for water from a water treatment plant to reach your home.

Hope that helps

 

[GrowerGoneWild]

Chlorine gets "used" up by reacting with organics. If you are growing in soil or coco then that will naturally de-activate the chlorine in the water as the chlorine will try and oxidise or react with the organics in coco / soil etc. This is bad because this reaction will create tri-halomethane by products which are limited to 1ppb due to its carcinogenic properties. I don't think this will harm the plants, but the waste water could allow exposure to a human/animal etc.

Yup, this confirms what I've said earlier in the thread. Organic Matter (OM) will cause the chlorine to react and it will neutralize it, its the cheapest and easiest way to deactivate it. Just put a handful of compost or your dirt in your watering can or container if you are concerned. My experience with untreated water with it in teas, hydro, and soil the chlorine goes away pretty quickly, or does not pose a significant hazard to plants or microlife and confirmed with a microscope, and as posted earlier in the thread chlorine is part of plant growth.

I think its always a good idea to check the water quality for problems, but if chlorine/cloramines are within potable water specifications, I think its fine to use as is on a grow. We are pouring this water onto media rich with OM, or the hydrotank itself has high OM, with roots dangling in it.

 

[Porky101]

Yup, this confirms what I've said earlier in the thread. Organic Matter (OM) will cause the chlorine to react and it will neutralize it, its the cheapest and easiest way to deactivate it. Just put a handful of compost or your dirt in your watering can or container if you are concerned. My experience with untreated water with it in teas, hydro, and soil the chlorine goes away pretty quickly, or does not pose a significant hazard to plants or microlife and confirmed with a microscope, and as posted earlier in the thread chlorine is part of plant growth.

I think its always a good idea to check the water quality for problems, but if chlorine/cloramines are within potable water specifications, I think its fine to use as is on a grow. We are pouring this water onto media rich with OM, or the hydrotank itself has high OM, with roots dangling in it.

Good idea about the watering can. Even throwing activated carbon will work. Even a piece of wood would work... Anything that has a carbon atom in you can use. Even stirring with your hands will deactivate the cl.


Stir your nutrient solution with a wooden spoon. Problem solved

 

[ThaMagnificent]

I think it's more so whatever is put in the water to keep the pH high that's the problem. My plants would climb a full point every 12hrs which would lockout certain nutrients no matter how much pH down I dumped in it. My water is only 130 ppm too. Plus I live in a very limestone heavy region so the water is very alkyd

 

[Porky101]

That's because the pH is heavily buffered.

Do this next time, take your water and bring it down to a pH of 3 or as low as you can get it. Then bring it to PH6. Do this before adding any nutrients. By doing that you should over power the buffering in the water. And it should be pretty stable... Let me know your results.. Will be happy to assist