Northern Grow Lights Photon 180 Citizen 1825 90 CRI

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
What is the precaution in the case of alkaline water?

What are 'vegan' fertilizers? Lol.
well it depends on a couple of things, is the char made from bones or wood? pine will lower ph others will raise..........char is beneficial in field studies, containers it raised problems with alkanline soils/water(west coast)==stunted growth

vegan ferts means no animal by-products(manures,fras,guanos,etc), making it extremely safe and still effective..........in my experience. like I said i'm lazy, don't have to wear gloves or a mask when using it, can eat it if you want.

I used down to earth vegan mix for awhile now, switching to dr earth's vega due to boredom ......lol..........also till in all the cannabis trimmings into the soil each run

I'm curious to know why you believe that to be for the better?
Unless you have a vortex brewer........teas/brews are just a waste of $$$$$/and time, saw zero benefits.....it needs complete and constant aeration or it's ineffective
 

Aruanda

Well-Known Member
well it depends on a couple of things, is the char made from bones or wood? pine will lower ph others will raise...
The char is made from pine I believe. However, the biochar was inoculated in a compost tea, which from all that I have read and understood, is a mitigating factor for biochar's ability to raise the pH. It would also seem like 'charging' - or to say, inoculating - biochar is best practice for this type of application. Furthermore, based on my initial ratios, less than 5% char (1.5L) should not present much of an issue I don't believe. As this was based on the understanding of the smart pots only being 7L each when in fact they are more like 9 to 10L, that 5% is more like 3% roughly.

http://sonomabiocharinitiative.org/citscience/can-biochar-hurt-my-plants/

vegan ferts means no animal by-products(manures,fras,guanos,etc), making it extremely safe and still effective..........in my experience.
What about the soil life? Those are animals too, and they produce byproducts which are beneficial to your plants.
 

Aruanda

Well-Known Member
Using trim stems roots in compost is just so much fun if the plants were healthy.
I'd be really interested in using the stems/fiber and roots as a medium for mushroom bags that could then be placed inside the grow space to produce CO2. Then when the mushrooms are harvested and the material used up could be further broken down by placing into a compost bin.
 

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
The char is made from pine I believe. However, the biochar was inoculated in a compost tea, which from all that I have read and understood, is a mitigating factor for biochar's ability to raise the pH. It would also seem like 'charging' - or to say, inoculating - biochar is best practice for this type of application. Furthermore, based on my initial ratios, less than 5% char (1.5L) should not present much of an issue I don't believe. As this was based on the understanding of the smart pots only being 7L each when in fact they are more like 9 to 10L, that 5% is more like 3% roughly.

http://sonomabiocharinitiative.org/citscience/can-biochar-hurt-my-plants/



What about the soil life? Those are animals too, and they produce byproducts which are beneficial to your plants.
biochar has shown great improvements to FIELDS that had previous phosphorous abuse(salts)/acidic.........organic soil containers are yet to see any improvement vers local test group(using happy cat farm char)

BUT if it works for you, great!

we had one local farmer suffer kidney failure from not properly composting manures...........pathogens has been found in plenty of organic ferts. With proper handling and safety it cuts down the risk, i'm LAZY so shit can happen.....yes pun intended:)

have you eaten store bought bean sprouts lately?lol...........their is a reason why so many farmers are switching to vegan ferts for microgreens/sprouts(unwashed by consumers)....effective organic gardening with no worries, especially for stuff we inhale(cannabis)

my 2c
 
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hillbill

Well-Known Member
How does one keep microscopic fauna out of a mix? Would anyone want to? My compost has black soldier fly frass including carcasses and east European crawler crap as well. Leaf mold has centipedes and roaches. They die and rot and they crap.

Fins and beaks for me to eat. Being not a purist is hard sometimes, but it's getting easier.
 

Aruanda

Well-Known Member
biochar has shown great improvements to FIELDS that had previous phosphorous abuse(salts)/acidic.........organic soil containers are yet to see any improvement vers local test group(using happy cat farm char)
There is seemingly limited research available on this topic at this time. Preliminary research and anecdotal experience show that inoculated biochar can be a positive, even in container grown plants. Maybe I'll have to do a more rigorous grow journal at some point with controls for the benefit of others? Never hurts to try and experiment. I appreciate the points you've raised as it has made me look deeper and do the due diligence on this substance (I was unknowing of the pH raising ability of char for instance). But again, it is still a very emergent practice from what I have been able to find, and I am excited to see more about it.


we had one local farmer suffer kidney failure from not properly composting manures...........pathogens has been found in plenty of organic ferts.
How could one be so sure that soil pathogens were the causing factor? Seems that there could be a lot of other variables unaccounted for in why this farmer suffered kidney failure. Just my speculation, but what do I know? ...Part of what I do understand is, that there are good and bad organisms. When you have healthy animals and healthy soils, the good bacterias and organisms balance out and keep pathogenic organisms in check. It is by the same understanding that I am comfortable in drinking raw milk when I can source it.


This is nothing personal to you, but I am highly skeptical of what veganic farming and vegan practices even implies. To me it may very well be a misnomer. I may be new to cannabis cultivation but I have several years experience in cultivating other crops as well as my field of study is RegenAg/Permaculture/Agroecology/Agroforestry. It is my understanding that soil science is a field of study still very much at the precipice of a vastly undiscovered frontier.

"Microorganisms constitute a formidable challenge to anyone trying to understand soil processes, many of which in
one way or another are mediated by, or at the very least involve, microorganisms. The identity of most of these microorganisms, however, remains largely a mystery. At this point, it is estimated that 99.5% of organisms in soils have not been cultivated (e.g., Gest, 2008; Zengler, 2009; Alain and Querellou, 2009)."
https://www.soils.org/files/publications/csa-news/soils-still-a-frontier-of-science.pdf


"EXECUTIVE SUMMARY

Soils are one of the most poorly researched habitats on earth. The functioning of this thin dark covering on the surface of the earth is vital for the survival of the biosphere in its present form. The impact of burgeoning human populations has destroyed the soil physico- chemical environment and the soil's species through activities such as: inputs of chemicals from the atmosphere, disposal of waste products in soils, ground water contamination, and physical modification or removal of soil by cultivation and erosion. Soil degradation has also resulted in the mobilization of carbon and nitrogen as greenhouse gases forcing climate change. Information on the effect of these impacts on the loss of soil biodiversity and the loss of key functions [e.g., biogeochemical cycles of carbon (C), nitrogen (N), sulfur (S), potassium (K), phosphorus (P), oxygen (O)] in the biosphere is fragmentary. Ecological principles derived from macroscale above-ground research have been transferred without basis to soil organisms that function at the microscale, providing an incomplete foundation for predicting sustainability. Nevertheless, ecologists have shown the importance of soil biota to ecosystem processes such as nutrient cycling, carbon storage, and maintenance of plant diversity, through studies that combine a number of taxa into functional or trophic groups. Global change research examining the effects of soil warming has revealed the key role of the soil biota in regulating methane (CH4), nitrous oxide (N2O), and carbon dioxide (CO2) losses from soil, which impact processes in aquatic and atmospheric systems. Research has continued to show the value of soil biota to the biological control of human and agricultural pests, in biotechnology, and for remediation of hazardous wastes......"
http://wp.natsci.colostate.edu/walllab/files/2015/07/lifeinthesoil.pdf


Even amongst some of the prominent soil scientists (such as Elaine Ingham) there is some dispute or discrepancy of understanding on this subject....
 
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hillbill

Well-Known Member
Three nice Northern Lights here under a Northern Grow Lights light. The 3500k 90cri 180 Photon is very effective flowering and the even coverage of these lights keeps me from feeling I am "aiming" them. The color of the light is very appealing in lumens for humans!
 

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
There is seemingly limited research available on this topic at this time. Preliminary research and anecdotal experience show that inoculated biochar can be a positive, even in container grown plants. Maybe I'll have to do a more rigorous grow journal at some point with controls for the benefit of others? Never hurts to try and experiment. I appreciate the points you've raised as it has made me look deeper and do the due diligence on this substance (I was unknowing of the pH raising ability of char for instance). But again, it is still a very emergent practice from what I have been able to find, and I am excited to see more about it.




How could one be so sure that soil pathogens were the causing factor? Seems that there could be a lot of other variables unaccounted for in why this farmer suffered kidney failure. Just my speculation, but what do I know? ...Part of what I do understand is, that there are good and bad organisms. When you have healthy animals and healthy soils, the good bacterias and organisms balance out and keep pathogenic organisms in check. It is by the same understanding that I am comfortable in drinking raw milk when I can source it.


This is nothing personal to you, but I am highly skeptical of what veganic farming and vegan practices even implies. To me it may very well be a misnomer. I may be new to cannabis cultivation but I have several years experience in cultivating other crops as well as my field of study is RegenAg/Permaculture/Agroecology/Agroforestry. It is my understanding that soil science is a field of study still very much at the precipice of a vastly undiscovered frontier.

"Microorganisms constitute a formidable challenge to anyone trying to understand soil processes, many of which in
one way or another are mediated by, or at the very least involve, microorganisms. The identity of most of these microorganisms, however, remains largely a mystery. At this point, it is estimated that 99.5% of organisms in soils have not been cultivated (e.g., Gest, 2008; Zengler, 2009; Alain and Querellou, 2009)."
https://www.soils.org/files/publications/csa-news/soils-still-a-frontier-of-science.pdf


"EXECUTIVE SUMMARY

Soils are one of the most poorly researched habitats on earth. The functioning of this thin dark covering on the surface of the earth is vital for the survival of the biosphere in its present form. The impact of burgeoning human populations has destroyed the soil physico- chemical environment and the soil's species through activities such as: inputs of chemicals from the atmosphere, disposal of waste products in soils, ground water contamination, and physical modification or removal of soil by cultivation and erosion. Soil degradation has also resulted in the mobilization of carbon and nitrogen as greenhouse gases forcing climate change. Information on the effect of these impacts on the loss of soil biodiversity and the loss of key functions [e.g., biogeochemical cycles of carbon (C), nitrogen (N), sulfur (S), potassium (K), phosphorus (P), oxygen (O)] in the biosphere is fragmentary. Ecological principles derived from macroscale above-ground research have been transferred without basis to soil organisms that function at the microscale, providing an incomplete foundation for predicting sustainability. Nevertheless, ecologists have shown the importance of soil biota to ecosystem processes such as nutrient cycling, carbon storage, and maintenance of plant diversity, through studies that combine a number of taxa into functional or trophic groups. Global change research examining the effects of soil warming has revealed the key role of the soil biota in regulating methane (CH4), nitrous oxide (N2O), and carbon dioxide (CO2) losses from soil, which impact processes in aquatic and atmospheric systems. Research has continued to show the value of soil biota to the biological control of human and agricultural pests, in biotechnology, and for remediation of hazardous wastes......"
http://wp.natsci.colostate.edu/walllab/files/2015/07/lifeinthesoil.pdf


Even amongst some of the prominent soil scientists (such as Elaine Ingham) there is some dispute or discrepancy of understanding on this subject....



Good points................I was taught conventional "chem" farming(agribusiness, B.Sc(ag)), I am in no way knocking organic production, just want to make sure people understand the risks involved. I actually promote it, even with the reduced yields, due to runoff pollution affecting US AG industry.

Sure it's possible the farmer got E.coli from some other source, or that the recent outbreaks weren't from organic ferts..........field workers have to go to the bathroom too:)......aerobic vs anaerobic conditions can change on the fly due to ignorance,lazyness,etc, that won't change. Properly composted materials are rather safe, never disputed that, class A biosolids are a mainstay..

We generally wash our fruits and vegetables before ingestion..........cannabis? eeehhhh NO.....granted, curing should kill off most?BUT that is main concern in all of this, we are mostly INHALING it, by-passing our good bacteria/filters.

If I can control my grow indoors then I'm going to control it completely using the safest methods possible......vegan ferts outdoors makes no sense obviously if your concerned about fecal matter/pathogens. I use the uprising line on my deck container garden btw.
 

Aruanda

Well-Known Member
Good points................I was taught conventional "chem" farming(agribusiness, B.Sc(ag)), I am in no way knocking organic production, just want to make sure people understand the risks involved. I actually promote it, even with the reduced yields, due to runoff pollution affecting US AG industry.

Sure it's possible the farmer got E.coli from some other source, or that the recent outbreaks weren't from organic ferts..........field workers have to go to the bathroom too:)......aerobic vs anaerobic conditions can change on the fly due to ignorance,lazyness,etc, that won't change. Properly composted materials are rather safe, never disputed that, class A biosolids are a mainstay..

We generally wash our fruits and vegetables before ingestion..........cannabis? eeehhhh NO.....granted, curing should kill off most?BUT that is main concern in all of this, we are mostly INHALING it, by-passing our good bacteria/filters.

If I can control my grow indoors then I'm going to control it completely using the safest methods possible......vegan ferts outdoors makes no sense obviously if your concerned about fecal matter/pathogens. I use the uprising line on my deck container garden btw.

Thank you for the enlivening discussion. It has been beneficial and insightful and I believe we all have an important perspective and 'piece to the puzzle' so to speak. I am trying to stay open minded about the 'vegan' farming methodology. As it pertains to cannabis, it seemingly has a specific contextual value as you have clearly pointed out and I am interested in exploring it further.
 

Aruanda

Well-Known Member
Three nice Northern Lights here under a Northern Grow Lights light. The 3500k 90cri 180 Photon is very effective flowering and the even coverage of these lights keeps me from feeling I am "aiming" them. The color of the light is very appealing in lumens for humans!

Do you have a grow journal? Feel free to post some pics here if you'd like @hillbill. Would love to see more examples of what this light can do.

(I kinda took your comment as a gentle nudge to keep this grow journal on topic, lol)
 

Aruanda

Well-Known Member
[Update 09/24] - 18 days from germination. Just thought I'd throw some photos up since these girls have definitely grown since my last posting. Made a feeding preparation today with 1mL of BioHeaven, 1mL BioGrow and 1/3tsp StumpTea - Veg boost for a soil drench. 5 of 6 are sprouting out their 5th set of true leaves, the 6th that was started a few days later is on its 4th.

Something quite peculiar is that some sets of leaves have uneven numbers from one side to the other. Is there some explanation for this other than summing it up to the genetics perhaps?

IMG_6380.jpg

IMG_6383.jpg

IMG_6384.jpg



Here you can see the fan leaf on the right has only 4 'fingers' while its opposite leaf has 5:
IMG_6381.jpg

IMG_6387.jpg



This one is a bit harder to see. On the set just below the top that is sprouting, the leaf on the left has 7 and the one on the right has 6:
IMG_6388.jpg

Not sure I had posted the strain details in my opening post, as I believe I had accidentally deleted a note with that information. Was able to pull that info back up however. So this is a strain from a DC breeder who calls it Mondo #1. He said people are calling it Lemon Cookies/Lemonade Kush. Its lineage is Platinum OG, Pineapple Kush, Mango Kush and an unknown pure Indica. The leaves do have a slight silvery tinge to them and maybe less than a week ago they have already started giving off a distinctive smell. There seems to also be some phenotypical variation. Two of them have slightly longer petioles while the rest have much tighter spacing.
 
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Aruanda

Well-Known Member
Went ahead and transplanted them to 10L (2.6gal) smart pots on Sunday and adjusted the ratios of the soil mix. It is roughly as follows:

30% Perlite
30% Soil blend
15% coconut fiber
16.6% Vermicompost (homemade)
5.5% Vermiculite
2.7% 'charged' Biochar
>0.1% silica
>0.1% calcium (powdered shells)


I have given some thought to the idea of possibly doing some low stress training but have been contemplating it... From my experiences with ayahuasca and seeing plants as beings with a spirit, I've been cautious about wanting to get too invasive/intensive with our plants on this first grow (my girlfriend doesn't even want me to top them at all). I don't necessarily think they mind these techniques. I guess what I am saying is a tuning in to their needs and see if they will allow me to do this or not (some of my friends would probably call me a 'purple fire breather,' lol). This philosophy also falls in line with the 'natural farming' style of Masanobu Fukuoka (or 'do-nothing farming'). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masanobu_Fukuoka

This type of non-intensive farming, not utilizing any type of training techniques may be best suited to an outdoor environment I realize, as I have read up much on optimizing an indoor space/tent by training to some degree. Anyone with thoughts or opinions on this? If I were to do some LST, maybe just on one or two of them to get some practice. I do also have a trellis net I am planning on putting in at some point. Maybe I could just tuck and zip tie a few branches (a couple of the plants are growing with more vigor than the others, could be ideal at that point to do to let the others catch up?).

My tent is only 160cm (5.2ft) tall and after reconfiguring the cables on the Photon to be shorter I raised it up to its highest position and took measurements. If assuming that, as these are almost pure Indicas they will double in height during flowering, I can only allow them to grow to about 26-31cm (10-12in) before switching to flower and still maintain a minimum space between them and the light (I could maybe get another 6-8cm/2-3in or so if I switched the wires out for daisy chains).


Since I am on this more spiritual/esoteric subject, does anyone utilize Biodynamic techniques/preparations? Would be interesting to see a side by side comparison... I'm quite interested in using the horn preparations (500 & 501) and wondering if the horn silica (501) can be added to soil as well as its intended foliar application.


(Photos taken this morning 09/27)
IMG_6394.jpg IMG_6395.jpg
 

nogod_

Well-Known Member
Know a few folks who use horn silica/plant on a full moon/etc but only outdoor and no side by sides just full fledged biodynamic throughout.

Wondering what the spd graph of moonlight would look like......

Went ahead and transplanted them to 10L (2.6gal) smart pots on Sunday and adjusted the ratios of the soil mix. It is roughly as follows:

30% Perlite
30% Soil blend
15% coconut fiber
16.6% Vermicompost (homemade)
5.5% Vermiculite
2.7% 'charged' Biochar
>0.1% silica
>0.1% calcium (powdered shells)


I have given some thought to the idea of possibly doing some low stress training but have been contemplating it... From my experiences with ayahuasca and seeing plants as beings with a spirit, I've been cautious about wanting to get too invasive/intensive with our plants on this first grow (my girlfriend doesn't even want me to top them at all). I don't necessarily think they mind these techniques. I guess what I am saying is a tuning in to their needs and see if they will allow me to do this or not (some of my friends would probably call me a 'purple fire breather,' lol). This philosophy also falls in line with the 'natural farming' style of Masanobu Fukuoka (or 'do-nothing farming'). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masanobu_Fukuoka

This type of non-intensive farming, not utilizing any type of training techniques may be best suited to an outdoor environment I realize, as I have read up much on optimizing an indoor space/tent by training to some degree. Anyone with thoughts or opinions on this? If I were to do some LST, maybe just on one or two of them to get some practice. I do also have a trellis net I am planning on putting in at some point. Maybe I could just tuck and zip tie a few branches (a couple of the plants are growing with more vigor than the others, could be ideal at that point to do to let the others catch up?).

My tent is only 160cm (5.2ft) tall and after reconfiguring the cables on the Photon to be shorter I raised it up to its highest position and took measurements. If assuming that, as these are almost pure Indicas they will double in height during flowering, I can only allow them to grow to about 26-31cm (10-12in) before switching to flower and still maintain a minimum space between them and the light (I could maybe get another 6-8cm/2-3in or so if I switched the wires out for daisy chains).


Since I am on this more spiritual/esoteric subject, does anyone utilize Biodynamic techniques/preparations? Would be interesting to see a side by side comparison... I'm quite interested in using the horn preparations (500 & 501) and wondering if the horn silica (501) can be added to soil as well as its intended foliar application.


(Photos taken this morning 09/27)
View attachment 3791074 View attachment 3791075
 
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