Whats your soiless recipe?

tusseltussel

Well-Known Member
You may be right about the Vermiculite in HP...I have not bothered to buy it in a couple years, but yeah to each his own. I did also read once about some other negative consequences of using it...but off the top of my head I don't remember what it was. But yeah, feel free.
I've used it on and off for the past 10 years never saw or run into anything negative. I'm open to suggestions and legitimate discussion with other growers. There is no moisture retraining gel, they use a wetting agent but that's something completely different and has no effect on moisture retention. If you're going to hop up like you know better please..... know better otherwise you just sound like an ass. Not trying to be a dick just don't see the value in your post so if you have anything useful to say please do I'm open to having fact based legitimate discussion
 

Chorse

Well-Known Member
I've used it on and off for the past 10 years never saw or run into anything negative. I'm open to suggestions and legitimate discussion with other growers. There is no moisture retraining gel, they use a wetting agent but that's something completely different and has no effect on moisture retention. If you're going to hop up like you know better please..... know better otherwise you just sound like an ass. Not trying to be a dick just don't see the value in your post so if you have anything useful to say please do I'm open to having fact based legitimate discussion
Sorry. Please quote my offensive statement to you. I just reread my posts and don't see it. Oh and my HP DID NOT HAVE vermiculite (just grabbed an old bag) and my query then produced this...
image.jpg
Looks like you mistook BX ingredients. Not the same. I HAVE also had gel type additions in some of the versions of ProMix I have used but yeah, the HP does not list it. I apologize for wiggling your apple cart.
 

tusseltussel

Well-Known Member
:clap:bravo!

I didn't come here to argue about pro mix, the title of the thread asked the question "What's your soiless mix?" I contributed to the thread with my soiless mix. You wanna have a discussion about how I might be able to improve it then let's go. I just don't see where this conversation is going. If you want to concentrate on pro mix then im not really interested, it's not the thread topic I thought it was.
 

Chorse

Well-Known Member
:clap:bravo!

I didn't come here to argue about pro mix, the title of the thread asked the question "What's your soiless mix?" I contributed to the thread with my soiless mix. You wanna have a discussion about how I might be able to improve it then let's go. I just don't see where this conversation is going. If you want to concentrate on pro mix then im not really interested, it's not the thread topic I thought it was.
No, we can be done. I will just assume you could not find where I said something offensive and are not big enough to aplogize and that your trying to pawn off BX ingredients as HP was a innocent mistake and not a sad and failed attempt at proving me wrong. In any case, get yourself some mycorrhizae, it will not disappoint. Later.
 

tusseltussel

Well-Known Member
I mix top quality worm castings and some growstones in with my BX.
I put a bag of worm castings in the last batch I mixed up, I think it was a 25lb bag I use. How much do you use per bale?

No, we can be done. I will just assume you could not find where I said something offensive and are not big enough to aplogize and that your trying to pawn off BX ingredients as HP was a innocent mistake and not a sad and failed attempt at proving me wrong. In any case, get yourself some mycorrhizae, it will not disappoint. Later.
Glad we could be done.
 

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
If you don't like it don't use it. The ttile of the thread said whats your soiless mix, we'll there it is. It works great for me, I use it in my indoor garden and I start several thousand vegetable plants in it every spring. I guses I don't know exactly whats in pro mix, I always thought I could see vermiculite in pro mix hp, maybe I'm wrong. Ive used my mix and promix plenty never missed the mycos, that's something I'll consider adding to my mix of you think itll really help but I've never noticed a difference, never noticed this gel either.

Just looked up ingredients it does hAve vermiculite
Ingredients:
  • Canadian Sphagnum peat moss (75-85% by volume)
  • Perlite.
  • Vermiculite.
  • Dolomitic & Calcitic limestone (pH adjuster)
  • Wetting agent.
  • Mycorrhizae.
  • Biofungicide.
Went out and looked at my bale of HP and it doesn't mention vermiculite or Biofungicide but it's a couple years old now. Also says the Myco in it should be good for 2 years but recommends use within 9 months of manufacture so that boat has sailed for me. :) Don't need the myco in there for feeding hydro nutes anyway and if I want bennies in a soil grow I can just water once with my dugout water to supply those I bet. Lots of frogs and little fish living in my dugout so it must have a healthy dose of all sorts of bacteria and fungi.

I never use vermiculite when growing either but the small amount they use in a mix like HP surely won't hurt and a little water retention could help as that stuff drains so fast. Just expanded mica and an inert ingredient.

As far as using kitty litter goes I wouldn't use it. Goes all slimy when wet as it's just clay. Not made to be consumed so likely contaminated with heavy metals and other crap. Not unlike Miracle-Gro nutes. lol

:peace:
 
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MANGOBICHE

Well-Known Member
:clap:bravo!

I didn't come here to argue about pro mix, the title of the thread asked the question "What's your soiless mix?" I contributed to the thread with my soiless mix. You wanna have a discussion about how I might be able to improve it then let's go. I just don't see where this conversation is going. If you want to concentrate on pro mix then im not really interested, it's not the thread topic I thought it was.
I choose not to use salts........everyone else just can read and move on........oh but not this thread policeman! I have to expalin to him in detail in someone else's thread while he hijack's it and tells everyone how wrong they are! It's a typical online knowitall, ive seen hundreds come and go.......moving onwards and upwards gents! Got no time for that kinda sublime! ya dig? Btw i am not referring to tussel, i'm referring to chose/aka thread police.
 

MANGOBICHE

Well-Known Member
No, we can be done. I will just assume you could not find where I said something offensive and are not big enough to aplogize and that your trying to pawn off BX ingredients as HP was a innocent mistake and not a sad and failed attempt at proving me wrong. In any case, get yourself some mycorrhizae, it will not disappoint. Later.
aliensdog.jpg
 

tusseltussel

Well-Known Member
Oh Chorse was right I did miss speak when I said hp rather than bx but that's still not the point I was trying to make and im don't see where I would need to apologize to that indevidual. All I was trying to say is the mix I use Is very similar to promix but pro mix has nothing else to do with it and I refuse to argue over promix.
Went out and looked at my bale of HP and it doesn't mention vermiculite or Biofungicide but it's a couple years old now. Also says the Myco in it should be good for 2 years but recommends use within 9 months of manufacture so that boat has sailed for me. :) Don't need the myco in there for feeding hydro nutes anyway and if I want bennies in a soil grow I can just water once with my dugout water to supply those I bet. Lots of frogs and little fish living in my dugout so it must have a healthy dose of all sorts of bacteria and fungi.

I never use vermiculite when growing either but the small amount they use in a mix like HP surely won't hurt and a little water retention could help as that stuff drains so fast. Just expanded mica and an inert ingredient.

As far as using kitty litter goes I wouldn't use it. Goes all slimy when wet as it's just clay. Not made to be consumed so likely contaminated with heavy metals and other crap. Not unlike Miracle-Gro nutes. lol

:peace:
I misspoke and was referring to bx although really I wasnt even talking about promix I was just mentioning that my mix comes out to have similar properties as pro mix .

I've made my mix before and left out the vermiculite i dont recall much of a difference I wonder why you choose to leave it out? Is the water retention of it a problem in your grows? Ive never noticed any trouble but I guess if I don't know could be a problem if going from small 2" pots to big 7 gal containers they might stay wet to long. Idk just thinking on it, what say you.
 

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
I'm not all that sure of why I ended up disliking vermiculite as it was a dozen years at least since I last used it. Might have been that I used to grow mainly in dirt for plants that weren't going into DWC and I had too much water retention.

I should maybe revisit using it with the super fast draining mixes I'm into now and see if it may not be of some use. Still have a couple gallons of it in a bag somewhere.

I've never had much success growing with dirt so gave it up a long time ago in favour of more soilless type growing that works much better for me. Lately I'm using some of the ProMix blends that incorporate compost and some soil and they seem to be working very well. Their Vegetable and Herb blends produce very healthy plants on their own with just an extra 10% or so of added perlite as they don't have a lot on their own.

:peace:
 

Chorse

Well-Known Member
I choose not to use salts........everyone else just can read and move on........oh but not this thread policeman! I have to expalin to him in detail in someone else's thread while he hijack's it and tells everyone how wrong they are! It's a typical online knowitall, ive seen hundreds come and go.......moving onwards and upwards gents! Got no time for that kinda sublime! ya dig? Btw i am not referring to tussel, i'm referring to chose/aka thread police.
Quite the drama queen. I guess wondering why you seemed so adamant in your no-salt opinion is offensive somehow? Seems to be kind of a silly thing to get upset about. Oh well...can't please everyone. Booga Booga
 

MANGOBICHE

Well-Known Member
First and foremost normally i wouldn't even respond to such blatant energy meant to cause discontent, If you wanna be part of the solution try listening and moving on WITHOUT having to respond to every person's opinion.......it says alot about you i'm betting! The only silly thing i see is an individual CONTINUING to prolong and beat a dead horse of a topic................let me guess you are the door person at wal-mart?
 

Chorse

Well-Known Member
First and foremost normally i wouldn't even respond to such blatant energy meant to cause discontent, If you wanna be part of the solution try listening and moving on WITHOUT having to respond to every person's opinion.......it says alot about you i'm betting! The only silly thing i see is an individual CONTINUING to prolong and beat a dead horse of a topic................let me guess you are the door person at wal-mart?
Oh fun!!! I like this game. "Let me guess"...You are wearing a faded T-shirt of a concert you never went to, haven't shaved your underarms and legs in over a decade, your stringy dreadlocks smell like dogshit and the rest of you smells like chicken soup.
 

Dr.Nick Riviera

Well-Known Member
First and foremost normally i wouldn't even respond to such blatant energy meant to cause discontent, If you wanna be part of the solution try listening and moving on WITHOUT having to respond to every person's opinion.......it says alot about you i'm betting! The only silly thing i see is an individual CONTINUING to prolong and beat a dead horse of a topic................let me guess you are the door person at wal-mart?

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RM3

Well-Known Member
As far as using kitty litter goes I wouldn't use it. Goes all slimy when wet as it's just clay.
Try googleing Al Tapla's Gritty Mix, he uses Turface (cost more) but unscented natural clay litter is the same thing,,,, Calcined Clay. Oh tis the same thing Hydroton balls are made of as well and it slow releases sulfur ,,,,, go figure 8)
 

tusseltussel

Well-Known Member
I'm not all that sure of why I ended up disliking vermiculite as it was a dozen years at least since I last used it. Might have been that I used to grow mainly in dirt for plants that weren't going into DWC and I had too much water retention.

I should maybe revisit using it with the super fast draining mixes I'm into now and see if it may not be of some use. Still have a couple gallons of it in a bag somewhere.

I've never had much success growing with dirt so gave it up a long time ago in favour of more soilless type growing that works much better for me. Lately I'm using some of the ProMix blends that incorporate compost and some soil and they seem to be working very well. Their Vegetable and Herb blends produce very healthy plants on their own with just an extra 10% or so of added perlite as they don't have a lot on their own.

:peace:
I hear that on the not remembering why you stopped using it, I've gone through similar things, it happens over time especially when you get everything dialed in, it becomes routine, buisiness as usual.

You mentioned mycos not needed when feeding hydro nutes, maybe that's why I didn't notice a difference when switching to my own mix vs the promix. Is there anything to elaborate on their? Myco is more for roots in a soil not soiless?

Pro mix bx is all I can really get where I'm at and I have to drive 2 hrs to get it but it only costs 25 bucks a bag, I can make my mix for the same cost minus the gas to go get it.

I've not noticed much difference with or without the vermiculite tbh, still just water it when it need water, if your already starting with a premix it might be different than where I'm coming from.
 

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
I hear that on the not remembering why you stopped using it, I've gone through similar things, it happens over time especially when you get everything dialed in, it becomes routine, buisiness as usual.

You mentioned mycos not needed when feeding hydro nutes, maybe that's why I didn't notice a difference when switching to my own mix vs the promix. Is there anything to elaborate on their? Myco is more for roots in a soil not soiless?

Pro mix bx is all I can really get where I'm at and I have to drive 2 hrs to get it but it only costs 25 bucks a bag, I can make my mix for the same cost minus the gas to go get it.

I've not noticed much difference with or without the vermiculite tbh, still just water it when it need water, if your already starting with a premix it might be different than where I'm coming from.
Myco is what are generally referred to as beneficial bacteria/microherd. For organic growing they are essential to break down organic matter into a form that the plants can use, salts. Hydro nutes are the salts that plants eat so no microherd required as they are easily absorbed by the roots and immediately available to the plants. That's why dirt farmers mix up and wet the blends they use and allow them to "cook" to allow the microherd time to break down what's in the mix and turn it into plant food.

Many organic enthusiasts claim that chem ferts added to living soils will kill the microherd and in max doses might damage them but have no problem adding some epsom salts to boost Mg and it's the same thing as the salts in hydro nutes so adding lower levels of them can boost plant growth without hurting anything.

Adding carbs to your soil isn't for the plants so much except indirectly as it's food for the herd so they thrive and produce more food for the plants. Some of the sugars are absorbed directly by the roots but not much as the plants make their own sugars through photosynthesis using carbon dioxide from the air and circulate them around the plant much like our blood circulates around our bodies.

I have an old bag of ProMix BX that I keep around mainly for rooting cuttings destined for use in DWC as it doesn't have myco which I don't want in my tubs. Basically the same thing as the versions that do but could use more coarse perlite to aid porosity. The HP in ProMix HP stands for High Porosity and comes with more than enough perlite to use straight out of the bag like I have done. I'm mixing it now with the Veg and Heb mixes and their potting soil mix as it seems to grow very healthy plants that don't even need nutes until they get bigger.

Adding more perlite to your BX will probably cause you to have to water a bit more often but will help get air into the root zone more often too and that's a good thing. You can buy various myco additives to add to soil mixes to boost their populations if the soil is lacking but in a healthy living soil with compost and things like worm castings they'll breed as long as they have food like sugars to thrive. Un-sulfered blackstrap molasses is a popular additive to supply needed sugars for them and a hell of a lot cheaper than most manufactured ones.

:peace:
 

Chorse

Well-Known Member
Myco is what are generally referred to as beneficial bacteria/microherd. For organic growing they are essential to break down organic matter into a form that the plants can use, salts. Hydro nutes are the salts that plants eat so no microherd required as they are easily absorbed by the roots and immediately available to the plants. That's why dirt farmers mix up and wet the blends they use and allow them to "cook" to allow the microherd time to break down what's in the mix and turn it into plant food.

Many organic enthusiasts claim that chem ferts added to living soils will kill the microherd and in max doses might damage them but have no problem adding some epsom salts to boost Mg and it's the same thing as the salts in hydro nutes so adding lower levels of them can boost plant growth without hurting anything.

Adding carbs to your soil isn't for the plants so much except indirectly as it's food for the herd so they thrive and produce more food for the plants. Some of the sugars are absorbed directly by the roots but not much as the plants make their own sugars through photosynthesis using carbon dioxide from the air and circulate them around the plant much like our blood circulates around our bodies.

I have an old bag of ProMix BX that I keep around mainly for rooting cuttings destined for use in DWC as it doesn't have myco which I don't want in my tubs. Basically the same thing as the versions that do but could use more coarse perlite to aid porosity. The HP in ProMix HP stands for High Porosity and comes with more than enough perlite to use straight out of the bag like I have done. I'm mixing it now with the Veg and Heb mixes and their potting soil mix as it seems to grow very healthy plants that don't even need nutes until they get bigger.

Adding more perlite to your BX will probably cause you to have to water a bit more often but will help get air into the root zone more often too and that's a good thing. You can buy various myco additives to add to soil mixes to boost their populations if the soil is lacking but in a healthy living soil with compost and things like worm castings they'll breed as long as they have food like sugars to thrive. Un-sulfered blackstrap molasses is a popular additive to supply needed sugars for them and a hell of a lot cheaper than most manufactured ones.

:peace:
Dude, your description of mycorrhizae is totally wrong. It promotes a fungus (not a bacteria) that works directly with the roots of a plant that enables enhanced update of nutrients. It is NOT working to break down anything organic and certainly works fine with inert mediums utilizing non-organic fertilizers.
 
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