The UK Growers Thread!

Rudi I&I Automan

Well-Known Member
Yup i know but until i can replace my ph pen(and learn how to use the EC pen) theres not a lot else i can do lol
is this any help to you?
When we feed a nutrient solution to our plants, one of the most critical factors to get right is the nutrient strength. But there seems to be a whole lot of confusion lingering around how to measure the strength of your nutrient solution-especially among beginners.

The two major measurements in use today are:

EC - Electrical Conductivity

TDS - Total Dissolved Solids

EC
Let's start with the obvious: the more mineral-based nutrients you add to some water, the more concentrated the solution becomes. Pure water does not conduct electricity, but the more mineral ions we add, the more readily it will conduct. Therefore, the electrical conductivity (EC) of your nutrient solution is a fairly reliable measure of how much nutrient is dissolved in it overall.

To measure conductivity we can use an EC meter, also known as a conductivity meter. It has two electrodes that, when dipped in the solution, measure its electrical charge by passing a small charge between them.

It's important to measure the conductivity of your source water (before you have added any nutrients or other additive products) - this not only gives you the "baseline" measurement so you have an idea of the purity of your source water, but it also gives you an idea of what "room" there is left for additional nutrients.

If EC is Electrical Conductivity, what units is this measured in?

You may have heard growers say things like "When my plants are in full flower I feed them up to EC 2.2" - but 2.2 what?

The answer is Siemens, or more accurately, millisiemens. (One millisiemen is one thousandth of a Siemen.)

There's no need to get your head twisted over this. Siemens are to "electrical conductivity" what feet, yards, meters or inches are to "length" - it's simply the unit of electrical conductance.

The important thing to get straight is that EC refers to the scale (also known as the 'parameter') and siemens are the units on this scale. EC is the most widely accepted measurement for the strength of nutrient solutions, and is the standard in Europe and many other parts of the world. The one notable exception is North America which, for some reason, prefers to use the rather cumbersome and vague alternative: TDS.

TDS
TDS stands for Total Dissolved Solids-it quantifies the concentration of dissolved solids contained in a solution. Proponents of TDS argue that it's a more suitable parameter than EC for measuring nutrient concentration, since it measures by quantity or weight rather through the implication of electrical conductivity.

The problem with TDS measurements are they are great in theory, but fairly absurd in practice. The only way of accurately measuring the TDS of a nutrient solution is to evaporate all the liquid and measure the residue-this would kind of defeat the point!

What is TDS measured in?

Remember, like "EC" - TDS is a scale, or a parameter, just like length, temperature and volume. The unit of TDS is ppm (parts per million.) A TDS reading of 60 ppm means there are 60 milligrams of dissolved solids in each liter of water, or 60 mg/l.

So do TDS Meters work in a different way to EC meters?

No.
TDS meters work in actually the same was as EC meters! Both measure the electrical conductivity of the nutrient solution they are dipped in. The difference lies in how the information is displayed to you.
A TDS meter measures the electrical conductivity in exactly the same was as an EC meter, but it simply uses an in-built conversion factor to display the strength of the nutrient solution in ppms.

It's these "conversion factors" that form the proverbial can of worms. They can vary significantly from meter to meter.

Conversion Factors
TDS NaCl

NaCl is a conversion factor based on Sodium Chloride (regular table salt.)
The conversion factor range is 0.47 to 0.5.
Non-linear meters based on NaCl typically use: 0.5 x the EC level (if converting from µS to ppm or mS to ppt) or 500 x the EC level, if converting from mS to ppm.
TDS 442™

442™ or Natural Water™ is a proprietary scale based on properties of naturally occurring fresh water. The 442™ part is an abbreviation of 40% sodium sulfate, 40% sodium bicarbonate, and 20% sodium chloride.
The conversion factor range is 0.65 to 0.85.
Non-linear meters based on 442™ typically use: 0.7 x the EC level (if converting from µS to ppm or mS to ppt) or 700 x the EC level, if converting from mS to ppm.

TDS KCl

KCl is a conversion factor based on Potassium Chloride.
The conversion factor range is 0.5 to 0.57.
Non-linear meters based on KCl typically use: 0.55 x the EC level if converting from µS to ppm or mS to ppt) or 700 x the EC level, if converting from mS to ppm.

TDS 640

A less popular conversion factor.
The conversion factor range is 0.64 to 0.67.
Non-linear meters based on 640 typically use: 0.64 x the EC level if converting from µS to ppm or mS to ppt) or 640 x the EC level, if converting from mS to ppm.

Yes, four different possible conversion factors means that four different meters that give measurements in ppm may all give different readings from the same solution! However, all EC meters should give the same reading in the same solution as there's no conversion factor necessary.
I know, I know … TDS sounds like a confusing thing - but it's really just a measure of the total ions in solution. For every gallon of water you have X mg's of stuff in it. If one of your friends starts talking about their nutrient solution in terms of TDS, be sure to find out what scale they are using. Many growers, especially in Europe, in an effort to avoid confusion, use EC. If you are still confused, contact the manufacturer of your nutrients and find out what they recommend. Remember to ask them what TDS scale they use if they give you dosages in terms of ppm.
Likewise, if you are working with a TDS meter that only has a ppm display, remember you need to be sure of the conversion factor being used. TDS comes into its own when you need to measure individual elements in applications such as nutrient and water quality, tissue analysis results and soil analysis. Results from these laboratory tests will give individual elemental readings in ppm or mg/l. Remember, a TDS meter will only give you an approximation of the overall nutrient concentration, based on the conversation factor used.
Below is a table to show the relationship between the various methods of displaying the strength of a nutrient solution.

EC (mS)

EC (µS)

TDS NaCl

(EC µS x 0.5)

TDS KCI

(EC µS x 0.55)

TDS 640

(EC µS x 0.64)

Natural Water™ 442

(EC µS x 0.7)

0.6

600

300

330

384

420

1.2

1,200

600

660

768

840

1.8

1,800

900

990

1,152

1,260

2.4

2,400

1,200

1,320

1,536

1,680

3.0

3,000

1,500

1,650

1,920

2,100

Jargon Buster

EC= Electrical Conductivity

TDS= Total Dissolved Solids

PPM= Parts Per Million
PPT = Parts Per Thousand

µS (or µS/cm)= micro-Siemens (one millionth of a siemen.)

mS (or mS/cm)= milli-Siemens (one thousandth of a siemen.)

NaCl= Sodium Chloride (EC-to-TDS conversion - EC x 0.5)

KCl= Potassium Chloride (EC-to-TDS conversion EC x 0.55)

442= 442 Natural Water™ (EC-to-TDS EC x 0.7) (The "442" is an abbreviation for 40% sodium sulfate, 40% sodium bicarbonate and 20% sodium chloride.)

Making Sense of your Meter

Here are some popular TDS meters along with their conversion factors, where applicable.

MAKE & MODEL

TDS FACTOR

BLUELAB



TRUNCHEON

Displays EC and both NaCL (0.5) and 442™ (0.7)

GUARDIAN

Displays EC and both NaCL (0.5) and 442™ (0.7)

HANNA



HI 98300

0.65

HI 98301 / 98302

NaCL (0.5)

GRO-CHECK COMBO



HI 981404N / HI 981405N

442™ (0.7)

HI 983301N

442™ (0.7)

HI 983301N/5

NaCL (0.5)

HM DIGITAL



TDS-3

NaCL (0.5)

AP-2

None - just measures EC

COM-100

Displays EC and TDS (user can select NaCl, 442 or KCl factors)

OAKTON



EcoTestr, TDSTestr11, PTTestr35

User Adjustable TDS Factor between 0.4 and 1.0



Default setting: 0.71

MILWAUKEE



MW401, MW402

NaCL (0.5)

T75, T76

NaCL (0.5)

C65, C66, MW301, MW302

None - just measures EC

MW801

NaCL (0.5)

MW802

0.65

NUTRIDIP



Tri-Meter 202

NaCL (0.5)

Tri-Meter 203

442™ (0.7)

Handheld

442™ (0.7)
 

R1b3n4

Well-Known Member
is this any help to you?
When we feed a nutrient solution to our plants, one of the most critical factors to get right is the nutrient strength. But there seems to be a whole lot of confusion lingering around how to measure the strength of your nutrient solution-especially among beginners.

The two major measurements in use today are:

EC - Electrical Conductivity

TDS - Total Dissolved Solids

EC
Let's start with the obvious: the more mineral-based nutrients you add to some water, the more concentrated the solution becomes. Pure water does not conduct electricity, but the more mineral ions we add, the more readily it will conduct. Therefore, the electrical conductivity (EC) of your nutrient solution is a fairly reliable measure of how much nutrient is dissolved in it overall.

To measure conductivity we can use an EC meter, also known as a conductivity meter. It has two electrodes that, when dipped in the solution, measure its electrical charge by passing a small charge between them.

It's important to measure the conductivity of your source water (before you have added any nutrients or other additive products) - this not only gives you the "baseline" measurement so you have an idea of the purity of your source water, but it also gives you an idea of what "room" there is left for additional nutrients.

If EC is Electrical Conductivity, what units is this measured in?

You may have heard growers say things like "When my plants are in full flower I feed them up to EC 2.2" - but 2.2 what?

The answer is Siemens, or more accurately, millisiemens. (One millisiemen is one thousandth of a Siemen.)

There's no need to get your head twisted over this. Siemens are to "electrical conductivity" what feet, yards, meters or inches are to "length" - it's simply the unit of electrical conductance.

The important thing to get straight is that EC refers to the scale (also known as the 'parameter') and siemens are the units on this scale. EC is the most widely accepted measurement for the strength of nutrient solutions, and is the standard in Europe and many other parts of the world. The one notable exception is North America which, for some reason, prefers to use the rather cumbersome and vague alternative: TDS.

TDS
TDS stands for Total Dissolved Solids-it quantifies the concentration of dissolved solids contained in a solution. Proponents of TDS argue that it's a more suitable parameter than EC for measuring nutrient concentration, since it measures by quantity or weight rather through the implication of electrical conductivity.

The problem with TDS measurements are they are great in theory, but fairly absurd in practice. The only way of accurately measuring the TDS of a nutrient solution is to evaporate all the liquid and measure the residue-this would kind of defeat the point!

What is TDS measured in?

Remember, like "EC" - TDS is a scale, or a parameter, just like length, temperature and volume. The unit of TDS is ppm (parts per million.) A TDS reading of 60 ppm means there are 60 milligrams of dissolved solids in each liter of water, or 60 mg/l.

So do TDS Meters work in a different way to EC meters?

No.
TDS meters work in actually the same was as EC meters! Both measure the electrical conductivity of the nutrient solution they are dipped in. The difference lies in how the information is displayed to you.
A TDS meter measures the electrical conductivity in exactly the same was as an EC meter, but it simply uses an in-built conversion factor to display the strength of the nutrient solution in ppms.

It's these "conversion factors" that form the proverbial can of worms. They can vary significantly from meter to meter.

Conversion Factors
TDS NaCl

NaCl is a conversion factor based on Sodium Chloride (regular table salt.)
The conversion factor range is 0.47 to 0.5.
Non-linear meters based on NaCl typically use: 0.5 x the EC level (if converting from µS to ppm or mS to ppt) or 500 x the EC level, if converting from mS to ppm.
TDS 442™

442™ or Natural Water™ is a proprietary scale based on properties of naturally occurring fresh water. The 442™ part is an abbreviation of 40% sodium sulfate, 40% sodium bicarbonate, and 20% sodium chloride.
The conversion factor range is 0.65 to 0.85.
Non-linear meters based on 442™ typically use: 0.7 x the EC level (if converting from µS to ppm or mS to ppt) or 700 x the EC level, if converting from mS to ppm.

TDS KCl

KCl is a conversion factor based on Potassium Chloride.
The conversion factor range is 0.5 to 0.57.
Non-linear meters based on KCl typically use: 0.55 x the EC level if converting from µS to ppm or mS to ppt) or 700 x the EC level, if converting from mS to ppm.

TDS 640

A less popular conversion factor.
The conversion factor range is 0.64 to 0.67.
Non-linear meters based on 640 typically use: 0.64 x the EC level if converting from µS to ppm or mS to ppt) or 640 x the EC level, if converting from mS to ppm.

Yes, four different possible conversion factors means that four different meters that give measurements in ppm may all give different readings from the same solution! However, all EC meters should give the same reading in the same solution as there's no conversion factor necessary.
I know, I know … TDS sounds like a confusing thing - but it's really just a measure of the total ions in solution. For every gallon of water you have X mg's of stuff in it. If one of your friends starts talking about their nutrient solution in terms of TDS, be sure to find out what scale they are using. Many growers, especially in Europe, in an effort to avoid confusion, use EC. If you are still confused, contact the manufacturer of your nutrients and find out what they recommend. Remember to ask them what TDS scale they use if they give you dosages in terms of ppm.
Likewise, if you are working with a TDS meter that only has a ppm display, remember you need to be sure of the conversion factor being used. TDS comes into its own when you need to measure individual elements in applications such as nutrient and water quality, tissue analysis results and soil analysis. Results from these laboratory tests will give individual elemental readings in ppm or mg/l. Remember, a TDS meter will only give you an approximation of the overall nutrient concentration, based on the conversation factor used.
Below is a table to show the relationship between the various methods of displaying the strength of a nutrient solution.

EC (mS)

EC (µS)

TDS NaCl

(EC µS x 0.5)

TDS KCI

(EC µS x 0.55)

TDS 640

(EC µS x 0.64)

Natural Water™ 442

(EC µS x 0.7)

0.6

600

300

330

384

420

1.2

1,200

600

660

768

840

1.8

1,800

900

990

1,152

1,260

2.4

2,400

1,200

1,320

1,536

1,680

3.0

3,000

1,500

1,650

1,920

2,100

Jargon Buster

EC= Electrical Conductivity

TDS= Total Dissolved Solids

PPM= Parts Per Million
PPT = Parts Per Thousand

µS (or µS/cm)= micro-Siemens (one millionth of a siemen.)

mS (or mS/cm)= milli-Siemens (one thousandth of a siemen.)

NaCl= Sodium Chloride (EC-to-TDS conversion - EC x 0.5)

KCl= Potassium Chloride (EC-to-TDS conversion EC x 0.55)

442= 442 Natural Water™ (EC-to-TDS EC x 0.7) (The "442" is an abbreviation for 40% sodium sulfate, 40% sodium bicarbonate and 20% sodium chloride.)

Making Sense of your Meter

Here are some popular TDS meters along with their conversion factors, where applicable.

MAKE & MODEL

TDS FACTOR

BLUELAB



TRUNCHEON

Displays EC and both NaCL (0.5) and 442™ (0.7)

GUARDIAN

Displays EC and both NaCL (0.5) and 442™ (0.7)

HANNA



HI 98300

0.65

HI 98301 / 98302

NaCL (0.5)

GRO-CHECK COMBO



HI 981404N / HI 981405N

442™ (0.7)

HI 983301N

442™ (0.7)

HI 983301N/5

NaCL (0.5)

HM DIGITAL



TDS-3

NaCL (0.5)

AP-2

None - just measures EC

COM-100

Displays EC and TDS (user can select NaCl, 442 or KCl factors)

OAKTON



EcoTestr, TDSTestr11, PTTestr35

User Adjustable TDS Factor between 0.4 and 1.0



Default setting: 0.71

MILWAUKEE



MW401, MW402

NaCL (0.5)

T75, T76

NaCL (0.5)

C65, C66, MW301, MW302

None - just measures EC

MW801

NaCL (0.5)

MW802

0.65

NUTRIDIP



Tri-Meter 202

NaCL (0.5)

Tri-Meter 203

442™ (0.7)

Handheld

442™ (0.7)
13230235_10206368573685580_8551710055983258323_n.jpg


lol soz had to do it, doesnt really help tbh, need some kind of guide on actually using one and what levels at different weks of flower etc etc
 

Bunduki

Active Member
lol soz had to do it, doesnt really help tbh, need some kind of guide on actually using one and what levels at different weks of flower etc etc
Stick pen in nutrients. Turn pen on. Look at number. Turn pen off. Take pen out of water, rinse and dry if finished.

I start off at 0.5 as seedlings and gradually increase to 1.0 as they go in, then bump it up until I see the start of nutrient burn/1.5.
Number too high - add water
Number too low - add nutrients

Check what your water's EC is first, mineral heavy water can have a high EC without any nutrients added
 

theslipperbandit

Well-Known Member
I'm making a little shelf yolk to keep the grow room organised cuz im always looking for wire n wire cutters n shits everywhere I've zip ties spewed all over the fuckin floor with my pat the baker delivery tray still in the middle of the floor with shit all over it n I only use that for working on me plants when I take em out the tent..I'm a messy cunt.was putting a few oz in some jars yesterday and I must of gotten most of it on floor ..clumsy isn't the word kid...suppose xanax is lol
 

zeddd

Well-Known Member
No, i just get lost when having to concentrate on wot im doing, or in this case posting, and it comes out like that post. i also have aspergers which fucks things up even b4 the crash and multiple head traumas. i tend to dive str8 into things without thinking. example, i was helping a farmer friend putting up fencing posts, he was in the tractor with the metal post thumper and i was holding the posts strait with a metal bar and i lost concentration and got hit in the head when the w8 came down, that hurt like a mother fucker when i came too and my pain tollerance is through the roof and thats from a specalist dr who tested me with an electric shock machine (yet another incident that landed me in hospital). i have an unusualy thick skull bone which saved my life acording to xrays and the dr's, but it don't stop brain damage, just saves my life.
Well done you made it this far, fuck being hit on head with post whacker ide be brown bread
 

R1b3n4

Well-Known Member
Stick pen in nutrients. Turn pen on. Look at number. Turn pen off. Take pen out of water, rinse and dry if finished.

I start off at 0.5 as seedlings and gradually increase to 1.0 as they go in, then bump it up until I see the start of nutrient burn/1.5.
Number too high - add water
Number too low - add nutrients

Check what your water's EC is first, mineral heavy water can have a high EC without any nutrients added
So regardless of whatever the level is in the water you still give the same levels of feed? or do you have to adjust it if the water (before nutes) is above/below a certain number to begin with etc?
 

makka

Well-Known Member
I'm making a little shelf yolk to keep the grow room organised cuz im always looking for wire n wire cutters n shits everywhere I've zip ties spewed all over the fuckin floor with my pat the baker delivery tray still in the middle of the floor with shit all over it n I only use that for working on me plants when I take em out the tent..I'm a messy cunt.was putting a few oz in some jars yesterday and I must of gotten most of it on floor ..clumsy isn't the word kid...suppose xanax is lol
Lol still not tried them xans yet gonna order a few tonight to try
 

makka

Well-Known Member
So regardless of whatever the level is in the water you still give the same levels of feed? or do you have to adjust it if the water (before nutes) is above/below a certain number to begin with etc?
Depends what's in the water it's only cal and mag if there's more ca/mg it's harder water than when their is less ca/mg i.e. soft water
Hard water = nutes designed with less ca/mg
Soft water = nutes designed with more ca/mg
So if your water before nutes is say 0.2 ec/ 100 ppm @ 0.5 scale
Then you would add 0.5 ec of nutes
If you have hard water say 0.5/6 that can be tricky to work with because the added
So regardless of whatever the level is in the water you still give the same levels of feed? or do you have to adjust it if the water (before nutes) is above/below a certain number to begin with etc?
if the water is under 0.2ec I add calmag to to 0.4 ec then add nutes to 1ec and start from there for everything and keep adding nutes as the plant needs it same with calmag of I see def starting but I'm at a high enough ec overall I just add a touch extra calmag to the base water before I add my nutes

If you have really hard water with lots of ca/mg in out the tap their are hard water nutes designed with lower ca/mg to go with hard water the ec's should be the same

That's just what I do m8
 

R1b3n4

Well-Known Member
Depends what's in the water it's only cal and mag if there's more ca/mg it's harder water than when their is less ca/mg i.e. soft water
Hard water = nutes designed with less ca/mg
Soft water = nutes designed with more ca/mg
So if your water before nutes is say 0.2 ec/ 100 ppm @ 0.5 scale
Then you would add 0.5 ec of nutes
If you have hard water say 0.5/6 that can be tricky to work with because the added

if the water is under 0.2ec I add calmag to to 0.4 ec then add nutes to 1ec and start from there for everything and keep adding nutes as the plant needs it same with calmag of I see def starting but I'm at a high enough ec overall I just add a touch extra calmag to the base water before I add my nutes

If you have really hard water with lots of ca/mg in out the tap their are hard water nutes designed with lower ca/mg to go with hard water the ec's should be the same

That's just what I do m8
Well im in the hardest water part of the country lol, ill dog the EC meter out in a bit n see what it says in a glass of water etc
 

R1b3n4

Well-Known Member
Very Hard at 127mg/L as calcium
  1. Soft 0-19
  2. Moderately Soft 20-39
  3. Slightly Hard 40-59
  4. Moderately Hard 60-79
  5. Hard 80-119
  6. Very Hard 120
 

Toaster79

Well-Known Member
This is what our tap looks like

Screenshot_20161026-111423.png
I know it's in German but you get the idea. I ususally let it sit or bubble with an air pump for at least 12h.

Using biobizz usually ends up at pH 6.5-6.8 which makes it pretty optimal for soil.
 
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