Dyna-gro vs Gh vs advanced vs H&G

[ismann]

I'm finishing off some GH Flora Trio but from now on I'm just going to use MaxiBloom (7g/gallon for Lucas formula). From all the grows I've seen with all of the different nutes, they don't seem to make much difference.

 

[rollyouron]

How did you get the samples? Im thinking about going with humboldt maybe this time or dyna

If you call Dyna they will send you a sample pack you pay shipping. I think 18.00. comes with a lot of their products. Well worth the shipping.

 

[since1991]

I'm finishing off some GH Flora Trio but from now on I'm just going to use MaxiBloom (7g/gallon for Lucas formula). From all the grows I've seen with all of the different nutes, they don't seem to make much difference.

Truth is....they dont. As long as they are in balance and complete..all the base brands will give very similar results. Iam not talking additives (which most companies have the same shit also - humicsfulvics, silica, root and bud boosters which are kelp derived, carbs or sweeteners which is molasses and whatnot)....just bases. Which plants will thrive on alone. They are all the frikin same. If you use the same strains...get the pH and EC in the sweet spot...you will most likely not notice a difference from Canna, H&G, General, Advanced, Botanicare, DutchMaster, Mills, Heavy 16, Hydroponic Reasearch, Nutrifield, FoxFarm, Ionic, Hesi, and all the other brands. I have used every one of them damn near. With the additives and supplements. On several different strains. In a pretty consistent and dialed in growroom (which is the real key) and the results were all the same. As long as minerals are there when plants need them..whether organic or not....doesnt matter. It plays such a very small roll in the overall growing process. What DOES make a HUGE DIFFERENCE. ..is strain selection, lighting (what kind and how much) consistent temps,rh,& co2, canopy management/ manipulation, when you harvest and how you trim dry and cure your smoke.

 

[Chunky Stool]

Dyna Grow Foliage Pro is all you need from start to finish.

DG Foliage pro is a decent product, but is a tad high in N and low in P for mid to late flower. Usually requires extra cal mag -- especially in coco. In side-by-side tests, I got better results using Mills A-B but it's pricey.
There are milder organic options that are worthy of mention. Technaflora makes a product called Pura Vida that is fermented seaweed, kelp, alfalfa, molasses, and a variety of sulfates. It's perfect for giving organic soil a little boost. My plants really dig it.

 

[since1991]

Truth is....they dont. As long as they are in balance and complete..all the base brands will give very similar results. Iam not talking additives (which most companies have the same shit also - humicsfulvics, silica, root and bud boosters which are kelp derived, carbs or sweeteners which is molasses and whatnot)....just bases. Which plants will thrive on alone. They are all the frikin same. If you use the same strains...get the pH and EC in the sweet spot...you will most likely not notice a difference from Canna, H&G, General, Advanced, Botanicare, DutchMaster, Mills, Heavy 16, Hydroponic Reasearch, Nutrifield, FoxFarm, Ionic, Hesi, and all the other brands. I have used every one of them damn near. With the additives and supplements. On several different strains. In a pretty consistent and dialed in growroom (which is the real key) and the results were all the same. As long as minerals are there when plants need them..whether organic or not....doesnt matter. It plays such a very small roll in the overall growing process. What DOES make a HUGE DIFFERENCE. ..is strain selection, lighting (what kind and how much) consistent temps,rh,& co2, canopy management/ manipulation, when you harvest and how you trim dry and cure your smoke.

And this whole business of ideal nutrient profiles for cannabis is really malarky really. Truth is...cannabis is a very basic c3 annual. It will thrive under all kinds of numbers and nutrient element percentages. People pay way too much attention to it than need be. Just follow a few general rules and you will be fine. Higher phosphorus in early veg and early flower. Nice amounts of nitrogen in veg. Back off it in mid to late flower. Ramp up calcium all throughout. Magnesium amd potassium sulfate in later flowering. All very general and basic shit. Picking a strain that will thrive in your room conditions is so much more important. Its everyrhing really. Arguing over nutrients is like arguing over tennis shoes.

 

[since1991]

I think the reason why forum growers always focus on nutrients is because there is a shit ton of brands out there and a boatload of marketing behind it. And its a relatively inexpensive variable that can be easily changed. Try getting heat real air conditioning carbon dioxide or humidity under control and consistent no matter the season outside without paying out the ass for it can be the real game changer for maximizing quality and yield. Or managing and manipulating canopy without a shit ton of back breaking meticulous work....but those are the deal breakers that seperate someone knocking down 2 plus pounds of prime top buds per 1000 watt versus someone getting a pound or a pound and half of average quality. Its not the nutrients. ..and you can bank on that.

 

[since1991]

If they all do the same shit basically...which they do...iam always on the hunt for the least expensive that fits my setup short of buying bulk ag salts and making my own. I like to play and tinker but not that much. If i was more than a decent sized basement operation i would. I stick to the bottles for convenience but they are all overpriced. So iam always on the hunt for a complete base that is cheaper than the rest and has everything in the right proportions.

 

[homebrewer]

Truth is....they dont. As long as they are in balance and complete..all the base brands will give very similar results. Iam not talking additives (which most companies have the same shit also - humicsfulvics, silica, root and bud boosters which are kelp derived, carbs or sweeteners which is molasses and whatnot)....just bases. Which plants will thrive on alone. They are all the frikin same. If you use the same strains...get the pH and EC in the sweet spot...you will most likely not notice a difference from Canna, H&G, General, Advanced, Botanicare, DutchMaster, Mills, Heavy 16, Hydroponic Reasearch, Nutrifield, FoxFarm, Ionic, Hesi, and all the other brands. I have used every one of them damn near. With the additives and supplements. On several different strains. In a pretty consistent and dialed in growroom (which is the real key) and the results were all the same. As long as minerals are there when plants need them..whether organic or not....doesnt matter. It plays such a very small roll in the overall growing process. What DOES make a HUGE DIFFERENCE. ..is strain selection, lighting (what kind and how much) consistent temps,rh,& co2, canopy management/ manipulation, when you harvest and how you trim dry and cure your smoke.

I don't think that bolded statement is all that accurate. The NPK balance of your plant food can give noticeably different results depending on the balance. Granted it takes an experienced and consistent grower to notice the different between foods that 'work' but when everything else is on-point, NPK tweaks can be made to improve yield, stem strength, and growth rates.

 

[Chunky Stool]

I don't think that bolded statement is all that accurate. The NPK balance of your plant food can give noticeably different results depending on the balance. Granted it takes an experienced and consistent grower to notice the different between foods that 'work' but when everything else is on-point, NPK tweaks can be made to improve yield, stem strength, and growth rates.

Different strains also have varying preferences when it comes to NPK balance.

 

[homebrewer]

Different strains also have varying preferences when it comes to NPK balance.

I don't agree with that but I'm curious as to what you've specifically noticed in terms of NPK preferences.

 

[Chunky Stool]

I don't agree with that but I'm curious as to what you've specifically noticed in terms of NPK preferences.

Some strains tend to stretch and I am constantly fighting to keep them short. They do better with food that is higher in P. I have used products like DG foliage pro with those strains and they developed a deficiency. Those plants do better with Mills A-B.
Other strains are naturally short and stocky and do better with less P, like DG foliage pro. More P just spreads the nodes.
Some people say you can control stretchy strains by giving less P, but I have found that more blue light + LST works WAY better.
I have also found that some strains can handle more N during flower than others.
What are your thoughts?

 

[homebrewer]

Some strains tend to stretch and I am constantly fighting to keep them short. They do better with food that is higher in P. I have used products like DG foliage pro with those strains and they developed a deficiency. Those plants do better with Mills A-B.
Other strains are naturally short and stocky and do better with less P, like DG foliage pro. More P just spreads the nodes.
Some people say you can control stretchy strains by giving less P, but I have found that more blue light + LST works WAY better.
I have also found that some strains can handle more N during flower than others.
What are your thoughts?

Elevated levels of P are linked to a greater amount of stretch. Give it a google search, there have been studies.

I don't deal with a lot of short, stocky varieties as they're not my preference but if I were I'd still feed with a 3-1-2 balance and just trim and prune as needed because that sort of plant could be a bushy mess if not dealt with properly. You may be correct that a slightly higher dose of P could space the nodes though.

Foliage pro is complete and it's impossible to develop a deficiency with a complete and balanced food unless there was operator error. DG's Bloom is complete but not very balanced and I will see N deficiencies in hydro if extra N isn't supplemented somehow.

I agree that plant manipulation techniques will trump any kind of nutritional tweak when it comes to managing a canopy or the structure of a single plant. Noting beats training, pruning, or bending. But once you have that structure down, the NPK balance can become the next important thing.

The Mills 2 part is a balanced food and should work just fine. When I compared a balanced food like that to a food with a 3-1-2 NPK ratio the balanced food yielded less which backed up the data that I've seen that stated P is not needed in large amounts at any stage during the plant's life (only really true in promix, coco, dirt).

Using a balanced (1-1-1) food from start to finish while in containers is absolutely a step in the right direction. Add some raw salts and tweak that balance to find out what works better, because in a dialed-in room one can do better than a 1-1-1.

 

[since1991]

I don't think that bolded statement is all that accurate. The NPK balance of your plant food can give noticeably different results depending on the balance. Granted it takes an experienced and consistent grower to notice the different between foods that 'work' but when everything else is on-point, NPK tweaks can be made to improve yield, stem strength, and growth rates.

Lets.just say with all the brands of nutes on the store shelves....they all performed damn near identical for me with final product. In quality...taste...smell..and yield. Very subtle differences at best...and mainly in growth.

 

[since1991]

Elevated levels of P are linked to a greater amount of stretch. Give it a google search, there have been studies.

I don't deal with a lot of short, stocky varieties as they're not my preference but if I were I'd still feed with a 3-1-2 balance and just trim and prune as needed because that sort of plant could be a bushy mess if not dealt with properly. You may be correct that a slightly higher dose of P could space the nodes though.

Foliage pro is complete and it's impossible to develop a deficiency with a complete and balanced food unless there was operator error. DG's Bloom is complete but not very balanced and I will see N deficiencies in hydro if extra N isn't supplemented somehow.

I agree that plant manipulation techniques will trump any kind of nutritional tweak when it comes to managing a canopy or the structure of a single plant. Noting beats training, pruning, or bending. But once you have that structure down, the NPK balance can become the next important thing.

The Mills 2 part is a balanced food and should work just fine. When I compared a balanced food like that to a food with a 3-1-2 NPK ratio the balanced food yielded less which backed up the data that I've seen that stated P is not needed in large amounts at any stage during the plant's life (only really true in promix, coco, dirt).

Using a balanced (1-1-1) food from start to finish while in containers is absolutely a step in the right direction. Add some raw salts and tweak that balance to find out what works better, because in a dialed-in room one can do better than a 1-1-1.

High P does contribute to the "stretch". I recall it being studied with control in an article. Everyone used to thing it was the nitrogen. Turns out...phosphorus. At any rate...an old greenhouse growers "trick"...night/day temp differential really keeps the stretch down. As will 6500k "blue" lighting the first few weeks. But the best method imho will always be plant canopy management and manipulation techniqes in veg and early flower. Use all the methods and tricks for the lankiest of sativas and tall indica/sativa hybrids. No one ever gets it perfect on first runs of new varieties never ran before. At least i havent.

 

[since1991]

Elevated levels of P are linked to a greater amount of stretch. Give it a google search, there have been studies.

I don't deal with a lot of short, stocky varieties as they're not my preference but if I were I'd still feed with a 3-1-2 balance and just trim and prune as needed because that sort of plant could be a bushy mess if not dealt with properly. You may be correct that a slightly higher dose of P could space the nodes though.

Foliage pro is complete and it's impossible to develop a deficiency with a complete and balanced food unless there was operator error. DG's Bloom is complete but not very balanced and I will see N deficiencies in hydro if extra N isn't supplemented somehow.

I agree that plant manipulation techniques will trump any kind of nutritional tweak when it comes to managing a canopy or the structure of a single plant. Noting beats training, pruning, or bending. But once you have that structure down, the NPK balance can become the next important thing.

The Mills 2 part is a balanced food and should work just fine. When I compared a balanced food like that to a food with a 3-1-2 NPK ratio the balanced food yielded less which backed up the data that I've seen that stated P is not needed in large amounts at any stage during the plant's life (only really true in promix, coco, dirt).

Using a balanced (1-1-1) food from start to finish while in containers is absolutely a step in the right direction. Add some raw salts and tweak that balance to find out what works better, because in a dialed-in room one can do better than a 1-1-1.

Hey HB...lemme ask you a Dynagro question as you seem to know the brand really well. Have you ever ran Foliage Pro in coco coir? Amd if you have...have you ever had to add a slight bump in a calcium/magnesium supplement running it? Just FP all the way through?

 

[homebrewer]

Hey HB...lemme ask you a Dynagro question as you seem to know the brand really well. Have you ever ran Foliage Pro in coco coir? Amd if you have...have you ever had to add a slight bump in a calcium/magnesium supplement running it? Just FP all the way through?

I have and I did not need to add anything else to the mix. There is a guy on IC who just tested some LED lights, Krunchbubble maybe? Anyway, he was running FP and nothing else with coco and his plants looked great.

I personally think every forum member's knee-jerk reaction to a plant issue is 'calmag' or 'pH' issues when I don't think either is really the problem. Lots of factors though.

I've even run my DG mix with added calmag in hydro and there was no noticeable difference. You touched on the concept of balance in an earlier post and I absolutely agree with you there. Unless a food is straight up missing calcium or magnesium, I don't think either element needs to be supplimneted in my experience.

 

[since1991]

I have and I did not need to add anything else to the mix. There is a guy on IC who just tested some LED lights, Krunchbubble maybe? Anyway, he was running FP and nothing else with coco and his plants looked great.

I personally think every forum member's knee-jerk reaction to a plant issue is 'calmag' or 'pH' issues when I don't think either is really the problem. Lots of factors though.

I've even run my DG mix with added calmag in hydro and there was no noticeable difference. You touched on the concept of balance in an earlier post and I absolutely agree with you there. Unless a food is straight up missing calcium or magnesium, I don't think either element needs to be supplimneted in my experience.

I ask because i here of people adding ALOT of a calcium magnesium iron supplement (no matter the brand) to a base that has a TON of those minerals already and wonder how the HELL they arent running into problems. In just a very very few strains have i added a light dose of a calmag and my plants liked it. And iam talking a very light dose. Like a quarter tsp per 2 gallons light dose. About 50 ppm at the most with my 110 ppm tap (500 scale). And only with like Ionic base growing in coco coir. But yeah. I hear of people adding like a tsp or 2. to the start water with a mega high calcium magnesium high coco specific base nutrient like Canna or Cocotek..etc. All that ever did was make my plants grow like shit. Even r.o. water. Which i think is overused also. Anyways...just wondering. I got a bottle on hand. It hardly ever gets used. Its old. Dusty.

 

[Chunky Stool]

Elevated levels of P are linked to a greater amount of stretch. Give it a google search, there have been studies.

I don't deal with a lot of short, stocky varieties as they're not my preference but if I were I'd still feed with a 3-1-2 balance and just trim and prune as needed because that sort of plant could be a bushy mess if not dealt with properly. You may be correct that a slightly higher dose of P could space the nodes though.

Foliage pro is complete and it's impossible to develop a deficiency with a complete and balanced food unless there was operator error. DG's Bloom is complete but not very balanced and I will see N deficiencies in hydro if extra N isn't supplemented somehow.

I agree that plant manipulation techniques will trump any kind of nutritional tweak when it comes to managing a canopy or the structure of a single plant. Noting beats training, pruning, or bending. But once you have that structure down, the NPK balance can become the next important thing.

The Mills 2 part is a balanced food and should work just fine. When I compared a balanced food like that to a food with a 3-1-2 NPK ratio the balanced food yielded less which backed up the data that I've seen that stated P is not needed in large amounts at any stage during the plant's life (only really true in promix, coco, dirt).

Using a balanced (1-1-1) food from start to finish while in containers is absolutely a step in the right direction. Add some raw salts and tweak that balance to find out what works better, because in a dialed-in room one can do better than a 1-1-1.

I have bolded your bold statement. I know what I saw -- with my own eyeballs. DG Foliage Pro doesn't work for all strains -- especially in flower. I've never used DG bloom, nor do I run hyrdro (unless you count DTW coco, which I've only ran once).
I am not here to convince anyone of anything.
I am just sharing what I have observed.

 

[homebrewer]

I have bolded your bold statement. I know what I saw -- with my own eyeballs. DG Foliage Pro doesn't work for all strains -- especially in flower. I've never used DG bloom, nor do I run hyrdro (unless you count DTW coco, which I've only ran once).
I am not here to convince anyone of anything.
I am just sharing what I have observed.

It could have been your water mucking things up? I've turned a few local guys on to FP from start to finish and they have had no issues either. It already has a good cal:mag ratio, how much more is needed considering every time that you feed the plants are getting ALL the required elements?

FP from start to finish. SAGE below:

 

[Chunky Stool]

It could have been your water mucking things up? I've turned a few local guys on to FP from start to finish and they have had no issues either. It already has a good cal:mag ratio, how much more is needed considering every time that you feed the plants are getting ALL the required elements?

Obviously you don't run coco. CEC of coir requires more cal-mag than other mediums.
I actually ran side-by-side tests with DGFP vs Mills AB with a strain called "Black Willie". The plants that got Mills had thicker stems and better leaf texture. It wasn't even close. I have used DGFP in soil with good results, but if I'm already in soil, I prefer to use slow release organic nutes. Everyone has bud pics. Here's a bud that was grown in organic soil, finished off with nutrient tea: