light and airy buds??

Antman

Well-Known Member
I'm no botanist or horticulturist, and I'm sure there are a lot of people who know more about growing things than me, so I went looking and here is some info I found. I think it's "good botanical science that supports the use of sugary supplements." What do you all think?

Why Use Sugary Supplements?
Matt LeBannister

People feed their plants sugars all the time without knowing it and not always understanding why. You give your sweetheart a bouquet of roses for Valentine’s Day and before they are put into the vase, sugar is added to the water to extend their bloom. Some “old school” gardeners will add molasses to their nutrient solution during the flowering period. Actually, just by adding fulvic acid, usually labeled “gold,” and humic acid, usually labeled “black,” to your nutrient mix you are giving your plants the building blocks for sugars.

Most growers do not even know that there is a meter, called a Brix meter, that is used to measure the level of sugars in the leaves of plants. It is generally understood that the higher the level of sugars within a plant’s tissue, the healthier the plant is and the better the yield will be.

Knowing this, the question should not be, “Why add a carbohydrate supplement to my nutrient solution?” but simply, “Why haven’t I added one already?”

To understand why you should give your plants one of the sugary supplements on the market, you should become a little more familiar with the way plants produce and use sugars.

Almost all plants use sugars as their main source of fuel. They transport these sugars along with water and other elements throughout their systems, either for food or to create amino acids for biosynthesis to fuel cellular respiration. Maple trees are a great example of how plants use sugars. Their sugary sap is famous at breakfast tables worldwide, but that sap is really the food the maple tree has begun to store to survive the winter to come.

Most plants are photoautotrophs, which means that they synthesize their own food directly from inorganic compounds using photons, the energy from light. They do this using a process called photosynthesis. Photosynthesis comes from the Greek word “photo,” meaning light, and “synthesis,” meaning to put together. The inorganic compounds are carbon dioxide (CO2) and water (H2O), and the energy source is sunlight. The end products include glucose, a simple sugar, and oxygen (O2). The actual equation looks like this:

6CO2 + 12H2O + photons —> C6H2O6 + 6O2 + 6H2O
(gas) (liquid) (aqueous) (gas) (liquid)


Then, through a process called carbon fixation, ATP (adenosine triphosphate),AND? a high-energy molecule CO2 (carbon dioxide) are used to create sugars. Some sugars produced, such as glucose, are simple sugars or monosaccharides. They are easily broken down by the plant and are generally used for energy. Other sugars produced, such as cellulose, are complex sugars or polysaccharides. Polysaccharides consist of a chain of two or more sugars and are usually used for lipid and amino acid biosynthesis. Polysaccharides are also used as a fuel in cellular respiration. Cellulose specifically is used as the building material for all green plants. It is the main component of all green plant cell walls.

Through the examination of the process of photosynthesis, we learn just how important the sugars produced through this process are. The sugars and starches are vital to the plant. They are essential for cellular preparation, to maintain the plants metabolism and vigor. The sugars are even the building blocks that keep the very cells of the plant together. Now it is understood that plants have a great big “sweet tooth” and are specialists at making the sugars they need.

So why then should we be feeding them more on top of all this? Simply put, flowering plants are burning these carbs trying to make large fruit or vegetables, or big beautiful blooms, faster than a marathon runner trying to win a race. Not to mention that the process of photosynthesis, which produces the sugars, itself takes a lot of energy. By adding one of the organic carbohydrate supplements to your nutrient solution the carbohydrates that have been allocated to the flowering process will be replenished more easily. This will save your plant the energy it would need to create those sugars itself, and your plant can focus more of its energy on the flowering process.

Also, many beneficial bacteria and fungi (aka carbon-fixing bacterial fungi) will live on the sugars and will break down the sugars for the plant. This, again, allows the plant to use energy usually spent breaking down sugars for other processes. The more beneficial bacteria and fungi, the easier nutrients are absorbed by the roots. All this leads to improved flowering and overall health of the plants.

When choosing the supplement for your plants remember the old saying, “You are what you eat.” The same goes for your plants. Look for something organic because organic sugars will improve flavor and smell better than anything that inorganic.

There are also some sugars that are more important to your plants than others. Xylose and arabinose are two of those sugars. Both are sugars naturally produced by plants. They are also monosaccharides, which means they are simple sugars and, therefore, used more easily by the plant.

Glucose should be the main ingredient of the product because it is the main product of photosynthesis. Glucose is a monosaccharide that is used for energy and for starting cellular respiration in the plant. The name “glucose” comes from the Greek word “glykys,” which means sweet, with the suffix “ose,” which denotes that it is a carbohydrate. Glucose is critical in the production of proteins and in lipid metabolism. Glucose is also used as a precursor for the synthesis of several important substances, such as starch and cellulose. Starch is a way in which plants store energy and cellulose makes up most of the structural parts of plants.

Fructose is also a monosaccharide and is a main component of most tree fruit, berries, and melons. It is the sweetest naturally occurring sugar and is twice as sweet as the disaccharide sucrose, which consists of glucose and fructose bonded together.

The disaccharide maltose is also an important sugar because enzymes break it down into two glucose molecules.

All of the above sugars are produced naturally by plants. By adding a supplement containing these simple and complex sugars to a well-balanced nutrient, a plant will increase the levels of sugars in the leaves and throughout the plant. This will let the plant use its energy more efficiently, allowing more energy to be focused on producing large fruit and bigger blooms. These sugars will also improve the taste of the end product while giving fuel to beneficial bacteria and fungi.
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
The first thing to consider when evaluating botanical information is 'Did it come from a botanist?"

Matt LeBannister is NOT a botanist. So who is he?

Matt LeBannister
Corporate Store General Manager, writer for Maximum Yield Magazine
E-mail: matt@hydroponics.com
Phone: 416-242-4769
Toll Free: 1-800 INFO GRO
LeBannister is a seller of magic sauces and has an intrinsic interest in selling anything, not just things proven to be effective in growing plants.

His lack of experience in botanical science is implicit in this stetement, which he wraps up in some high-school botanical science:
Most plants are photoautotrophs, which means that they synthesize their own food directly from inorganic compounds using photons, the energy from light. They do this using a process called photosynthesis. Photosynthesis comes from the Greek word “photo,” meaning light, and “synthesis,” meaning to put together. The inorganic compounds are carbon dioxide (CO2) and water (H2O), and the energy source is sunlight. The end products include glucose, a simple sugar, and oxygen (O2). The actual equation looks like this:

6CO2 + 12H2O + photons —> C6H2O6 + 6O2 + 6H2O
(gas) (liquid) (aqueous) (gas) (liquid)

Then, through a process called carbon fixation, ATP (adenosine triphosphate),AND? a high-energy molecule CO2 (carbon dioxide) are used to create sugars. Some sugars produced, such as glucose, are simple sugars or monosaccharides. They are easily broken down by the plant and are generally used for energy. Other sugars produced, such as cellulose, are complex sugars or polysaccharides. Polysaccharides consist of a chain of two or more sugars and are usually used for lipid and amino acid biosynthesis. Polysaccharides are also used as a fuel in cellular respiration. Cellulose specifically is used as the building material for all green plants. It is the main component of all green plant cell walls.

Through the examination of the process of photosynthesis, we learn just how important the sugars produced through this process are. The sugars and starches are vital to the plant. They are essential for cellular preparation, to maintain the plants metabolism and vigor. The sugars are even the building blocks that keep the very cells of the plant together. Now it is understood that plants have a great big “sweet tooth” and are specialists at making the sugars they need.

So why then should we be feeding them more on top of all this? Simply put, flowering plants are burning these carbs trying to make large fruit or vegetables, or big beautiful blooms, faster than a marathon runner trying to win a race. Not to mention that the process of photosynthesis, which produces the sugars, itself takes a lot of energy. By adding one of the organic carbohydrate supplements to your nutrient solution the carbohydrates that have been allocated to the flowering process will be replenished more easily. This will save your plant the energy it would need to create those sugars itself, and your plant can focus more of its energy on the flowering process.
Yes, to state the bleeding obvious, plants make sugars to make cellulose, the main building block of plants. But does that mean you should feed them sugar? No. Sugars won't pass the root membrane. The plant uses the sugars that it makes as a building block but cannot absorb any sugars through the roots.

The sort of evidence you want is peer-reviewed data form a horticultural or botanical college of a university, data which has been used by independent others to replicate certain scientific claims. A salesman will tell you what want to hear until you part with your money.
 

Antman

Well-Known Member
You sound like a very smart fellow and I dig what you're saying. Tell me you're a botanist and I'll toss my $3 bottle of organic molasses right now. LOL!
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
I'm not a botanist, but I'm very good at researching the information they publish. I have been looking diligently for some time for any good botanical science indicating plants can use sugars as a nutrient. After all, it would make some sense to give a plant sugars if you could short-circuit the process. However, even if you could do that, you would not do it with complex carbohydrates like sucrose (molasses, table sugar, etc). You'd use the simple sugars that the plant itself produces, like glucose.

If you read LeBannister carefully, he debunks himself:
Most plants are photoautotrophs, which means that they synthesize their own food directly from inorganic compounds using photons, the energy from light. They do this using a process called photosynthesis. Photosynthesis comes from the Greek word “photo,” meaning light, and “synthesis,” meaning to put together. The inorganic compounds are carbon dioxide (CO2) and water (H2O), and the energy source is sunlight. The end products include glucose, a simple sugar, and oxygen (O2).
Where in the list of inputs do you find sugars? You don't, and there's a reason for that.

Plants are biological organisms which have evolved given certain available environmental conditions and materials. If there were natural deposits of molasses anywhere on this earth, you would probably find a plant that thrives on them.

So, if there's a plant that is indigenous to the widely mytholgised Great Sugar Lake in Bumfuck, Egypt, that's the plant you'd feed molasses.

LeBannister's animal-oriented aphorism 'you are what you eat' presumes first that you can eat something. Humans can't eat CO2 or nitrogen and similarly, plants can't eat sugars.
 

Antman

Well-Known Member
"So, if there's a plant that is indigenous to the widely mytholgised Great Sugar Lake in Bumfuck, Egypt, that's the plant you'd feed molasses."
Dude, you're crackin' me the fuck up!! Good enough, the molasses is gone. What do you think about Humic and Fulvic Acids for our girls?
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
Humic & fulvic acids are also very 'magic sauce'-y. I can't find any good science to support those either. One very BAD write up on them is the entry for humic acid in Wikipedia. I can't even find a molecular formula for the stuff. Can you?

Go back to first principles. What does a plant really need? A certain temp & RH range & ventilation, sufficient light, water, elemental nutrients and a rootzone pH suited to the behaviour of the roots.

Most unfortunately, somewhere along the line, it became de rigeur to include some measure of unsubstantiable wizardry in growing cannabis. Plug that into the Chinese whispers circulating around cultivating a prohibited plant and madness ensues... and salesmen stand at the ready to provide whatever the growers think they need. A prime example is the 'Carbo Load' additive. Not a skerrick of botanical science to support the use of it, but by gum, you can buy it!

It's really astonishing how little you really need to grow great plants. Nutes, pathogen control, light & ventilation is the whole box & dice. If you're a magic sauce salesman, replace the word 'astonishing' in the last sentence with 'disappointing'. ;)
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
Reading LeBannister more carefully, I'm a bit amused at his comments.

LeBannister gets himself in trouble in this paragraph:

So why then should we be feeding them more on top of all this? Simply put, flowering plants are burning these carbs trying to make large fruit or vegetables, or big beautiful blooms, faster than a marathon runner trying to win a race. Not to mention that the process of photosynthesis, which produces the sugars, itself takes a lot of energy. By adding one of the organic carbohydrate supplements to your nutrient solution the carbohydrates that have been allocated to the flowering process will be replenished more easily. This will save your plant the energy it would need to create those sugars itself, and your plant can focus more of its energy on the flowering process.
First, he's a little confused as to the metabolic system he's dealing with. Plants don't BURN carbs (ie oxidise them to release energy for support of biological processes), they BUILD carbs.

I'd like to know his source for the comment

burning these carbs trying to make large fruit or vegetables, or big beautiful blooms, faster than a marathon runner trying to win a race.
Seriously, that's total bullshit.
Not to mention that the process of photosynthesis, which produces the sugars, itself takes a lot of energy.
Yes, photosynthesis requires energy, but would it get it from burning the carbs it builds... or perhaps from some unlikely source like sunlight?

This is the very sort of magic sauce salesmanship, mixed with a sprinkling of botany to make it believable to the layman, that I reaaaaaaaaaaaalllly despise. It's pseudoscience and should be recognised as such.
 

HalideHarry

Active Member
I think sometimes how you cure and store your buds comes into play.
If you cure and then cryovac or just pack tightly into jars, the buds get squished and become more dense.
 

Kludge

Well-Known Member
The first thing to consider when evaluating botanical information is 'Did it come from a botanist?"
<snip>
The sort of evidence you want is peer-reviewed data form a horticultural or botanical college of a university, data which has been used by independent others to replicate certain scientific claims. A salesman will tell you what want to hear until you part with your money.
Thank you, thank you, thank you! I try to tell people this all the time, don't just blindly believe something, make sure there is some real evidence and then check it for yourself.
 

mammal

Well-Known Member
The first thing to consider when evaluating botanical information is 'Did it come from a botanist?"

Matt LeBannister is NOT a botanist. So who is he?

LeBannister is a seller of magic sauces and has an intrinsic interest in selling anything, not just things proven to be effective in growing plants.

His lack of experience in botanical science is implicit in this stetement, which he wraps up in some high-school botanical science:
Yes, to state the bleeding obvious, plants make sugars to make cellulose, the main building block of plants. But does that mean you should feed them sugar? No. Sugars won't pass the root membrane. The plant uses the sugars that it makes as a building block but cannot absorb any sugars through the roots.

The sort of evidence you want is peer-reviewed data form a horticultural or botanical college of a university, data which has been used by independent others to replicate certain scientific claims. A salesman will tell you what want to hear until you part with your money.
+rep for a very wise post.
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
I think sometimes how you cure and store your buds comes into play.
If you cure and then cryovac or just pack tightly into jars, the buds get squished and become more dense.
You can't squash properly grown dense buds, not with a jar, not with a cryovac bag.
 

seaniken

Active Member
What about the deal where you turn the lights out for 48 hours before harvest to trick the plant into thinking it's dying therefor producing more resin? Any truth to that? Never tried it but I hear it all the time.
 

Kludge

Well-Known Member
You can rest assured that the myth believers are as much in the dark as their plants. ;)
I was reading something the other day where one breeder actually suggested putting a plant in TWO WEEKS OF DARKNESS before harvesting! Looking for the info now, I'm pretty sure it was in a blurb for some seeds and while I may be a newb I think it's well established that those blurbs are at best artistic interpretations and at worst out right lies.
 

Antman

Well-Known Member
Al B, you out there? Tried to private message you but you obviously know that didn't work for me so I'm gonna see if you get it this way. What do you know about this? B.S or will it work?:

Top Tip for you all,
Do you want to double the crystal growth on your plant/s??
All you need is a spare timer, spare strip light/s, and ultra violet bulb/s!

Did you know the uv rays from the sun encourage crystal growth?
This is a natural defence system for the skunk plant to protect itself from uv rays, THC-rich resins act to protect the plant and its seed from both higher light intensities and ultraviolet presence.

The way to encourage this growth without harming your plant or weed is to allow ur plant/s short daily bursts of uv rays.

All your plant/s need is 30 mins of uv rays a day during the latter stage of flowering in 3x10 minute bursts spread throughout your daily light cycle.
The uv lights directly stimulate THC production.
More THC= :eyesmoke:

TRY IT OUT!!!
Then plus rep me on harvest day LOL
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
B.S or will it work?:

Did you know the uv rays from the sun encourage crystal growth?
BS.

No one has proven the actual reason why cannabis plants produce resin or the THC it bears.

It's a lot more logical that a plant would evolve to produce resins & neurotoxins as a defence against insects or other critters that would eat the plant than UV light.
 
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