"White working class voters are good people, they're not racist, not sexist" -Joe Biden

dandyrandy

dandyrandy

Well-Known Member
The ones I know in Appalachia are mostly on SSI or dealing. My wife works for a Dr. I was fortunate enough to leave many years ago. Some work and make $7 an hour. Kasich just blocked cities from passing minimum wage. Sorry but the people I know are angry white men and women who have gottom to my age and can't make it on just Social Security. They can't retire and they truly believe that trump will make it like it was a long time ago. I actually know a preacher in an unnamed town who has been walking and praying through a small town he lives in to bring jobs back. They have been gone 40 years. He voted trump. He got a bit angry when I said grab em by the pussy! When they work for third world wages they may bring low tech jobs they could do back. It is sad. I don't visit that often.
 
tangerinegreen555

tangerinegreen555

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
On average, the income of Trump's voters was pretty good. Hillary got majority votes in the $50k and lower income crowd. Her margins got even better in the sub $30k crowd.

"There are lifelong Democrats here. There are progressive thinking people here." Thanks for the reminder. It was very close in the key states. Trump didn't mop the floor with Clinton. He won by a small margin. And Obama did in fact mop the floor with McCain in some of those states eight years ago.

OK, so, then it was a coalition of rust belt voters that pushed Trump over Clinton. Racism in some, then there were the fearfuls -- the people who respond to fear-based sales tactics and the rest were voting for a change away from Democrats.

It's the third group that decided the election?
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8 years ago, at the end of a very inept presidency, the economy was in termoil. Obama was a great candidate, but any Democrat was going to win after the blunders of Bush. The Democrats controlled the House, Senate and the POTUS after that election. It lasted only 2 years because people weren't satisfied that economy hadn't recovered, and the righties kept bitching about spending (Stimulus package that saved the economy).

Watch the Trump blowback 2 yrs. from now at midterms. He's now part of the real news, he can't escape the microscope. Watch him freak the fuck out over criticism and falling polls, denying everything as 'rigged'. The exit polls show he's already unliked, he lost the popular vote by 2.9 million, he just got real fucking lucky on Nov. 8th in three key states. I don't see that happening again. He's the least popular president elect in history. He'll continue that trend as POTUS, people will tire of his arrogant ineptitude, and if he seriously fucks something up, he'll be crushed.
 
st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
On average, the income of Trump's voters was pretty good. Hillary got majority votes in the $50k and lower income crowd. Her margins got even better in the sub $30k crowd. Those are national numbers based on exit polls. As they say "actual mileage may vary". But I know for a fact that Pennsylvania Trump voters weren't hurting financially.



"There are lifelong Democrats here. There are progressive thinking people here." Thanks for the reminder. It was very close in the key states. Trump didn't mop the floor with Clinton. He won by a small margin. And Obama did in fact mop the floor with McCain in some of those states eight years ago.

OK, so, then it was a coalition of rust belt voters that pushed Trump over Clinton. Racism in some, then there were the fearfuls -- the people who respond to fear-based sales tactics and the rest were voting for a change away from Democrats.

It's the third group that decided the election?
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If someone doesn't care about social issues, does that make them racist by default? I can think of many acquaintances here in Michigan that I personally don't consider racist or homophobic, it's just that they don't really care one way or the other about gay marriage or police brutality towards African Americans as examples. I guess it doesn't impact their life, so they don't have strong feelings about it.

Democrats should think twice about painting those folks with a broad brush IMO. We don't need to define everyone as racist or not.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
So you are going with the opposite of what Biden said? That racist white voters put Trump in charge?
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absolutely. biden is just playing politics, he knows racists elected trump.

Fogdog said:
How do Democrats counter that? Surely you don't suggest the Democratic party should start putting racist policies in their agenda to attract racist white voters?
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no way, repubs can keep the racists. the numbers are there for us to win without them.

change the results just slightly in the counties of lackwanna PA, macomb MI, and milwaukee WI and hillary is president.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
tangerinegreen555 said:
8 years ago, at the end of a very inept presidency, the economy was in termoil. Obama was a great candidate, but any Democrat was going to win after the blunders of Bush. The Democrats controlled the House, Senate and the POTUS after that election. It lasted only 2 years because people weren't satisfied that economy hadn't recovered, and the righties kept bitching about spending (Stimulus package that saved the economy).

Watch the Trump blowback 2 yrs. from now at midterms. He's now part of the real news, he can't escape the microscope. Watch him freak the fuck out over criticism and falling polls, denying everything as 'rigged'. The exit polls show he's already unliked, he lost the popular vote by 2.9 million, he just got real fucking lucky on Nov. 8th in three key states. I don't see that happening again. He's the least popular president elect in history. He'll continue that trend as POTUS, people will tire of his arrogant ineptitude, and if he seriously fucks something up, he'll be crushed.
Click to expand...
Yes, only if establishment Democrats cede control of the party over to actual progressives, which they won't. Watch what happens in the next 2 years with the fight for control over the Democratic party. They won't because they can't, because if they do, their donors won't keep funding their campaigns. So personally, I think unless we win the fight over control of the party, Republicans will continue to win elections. People can see corporatism within the Democratic establishment. That's not why we signed up to the party, that's why a lot of people are leaving. We want workers rights, investments into the middle-class, education, climate change, universal healthcare and college, a raise to a living wage, etc., We don't want to elect Republican light so they can blow smoke up our asses and pretend they care about us while they only focus on corporate interests and blame zero progress on Republican obstructionism. They had complete control of the government for 2 years when Obama won, look what they got us.. An individual mandate, Romneycare.

I am not impressed. The corruption is blatant.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow said:
If someone doesn't care about social issues, does that make them racist by default? I can think of many acquaintances here in Michigan that I personally don't consider racist or homophobic, it's just that they don't really care one way or the other about gay marriage or police brutality towards African Americans as examples. I guess it doesn't impact their life, so they don't have strong feelings about it.

Democrats should think twice about painting those folks with a broad brush IMO. We don't need to define everyone as racist or not.
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I'm still on the fence over the idea that racism played a major role in Trump's win in MI. What I do see is "a coalition of rust belt voters that pushed Trump over Clinton. Racism in some, then there were the fearfuls -- the people who respond to fear-based sales tactics and the rest were voting for a change away from Democrats."

Trump couldn't have won without hard core racist support. But it wasn't his most populous support group. I'm guessing the largest group were the people swayed by Trump's fear based sales tactics. That group also contains the religious looney bin @Flaming Pie type who go for all sorts of bizarre theories. The group that turned the election and maybe can help turn out the swamp dwellers assuming there is another free election, are a group of people who are maybe closet racists but don't necessarily vote that way. They voted for change and didn't give a shit about women's rights or what Trump's immigration police will do or concerned with curbing police brutality towards black people and other minority groups. Many in that group voted for Obama in 2008 for the same "change" reason.

This is all just conjecture on my part, I'm listening and trying to understand what you and others are thinking.
 
dandyrandy

dandyrandy

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow said:
If someone doesn't care about social issues, does that make them racist by default? I can think of many acquaintances here in Michigan that I personally don't consider racist or homophobic, it's just that they don't really care one way or the other about gay marriage or police brutality towards African Americans as examples. I guess it doesn't impact their life, so they don't have strong feelings about it.

Democrats should think twice about painting those folks with a broad brush IMO. We don't need to define everyone as racist or not.
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Agreed but some of the old people I know who were in Germany said those that did nothing early on hurt themselves. I'm not accusing anyone but compassion is tough. Most people would have divorced my wife. But I'm hard headed. She come from a tough background. She's fine now. It about killed me. We need to be concerned about each other. If not we will all need body armor. I hate to leave that legacy.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
dandyrandy said:
The ones I know in Appalachia are mostly on SSI or dealing. My wife works for a Dr. I was fortunate enough to leave many years ago. Some work and make $7 an hour. Kasich just blocked cities from passing minimum wage. Sorry but the people I know are angry white men and women who have gottom to my age and can't make it on just Social Security. They can't retire and they truly believe that trump will make it like it was a long time ago. I actually know a preacher in an unnamed town who has been walking and praying through a small town he lives in to bring jobs back. They have been gone 40 years. He voted trump. He got a bit angry when I said grab em by the pussy! When they work for third world wages they may bring low tech jobs they could do back. It is sad. I don't visit that often.
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Four years is a long reality check. I'm not sure a lot of the folks you describe can wait that long to cash it.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow said:
If someone doesn't care about social issues, does that make them racist by default? I can think of many acquaintances here in Michigan that I personally don't consider racist or homophobic, it's just that they don't really care one way or the other about gay marriage or police brutality towards African Americans as examples. I guess it doesn't impact their life, so they don't have strong feelings about it.

Democrats should think twice about painting those folks with a broad brush IMO. We don't need to define everyone as racist or not.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Tarring the electorate in opposition with a broad brush of racism or other 'deplorability' is a loser's game, as was amply demonstrated last 11/8.
 
dandyrandy

dandyrandy

Well-Known Member
I know an 82 year old gentleman that makes it on $1100 a month. I helped him get his amateur radio license years ago. He painted cars and got to where he couldn't work. His kids are low income workers who can't really help a lot. I sold his granddaughter a car I had for a low price so she could go to nursing school. She has escaped. Good night gentlemen. 4:30 comes early. I hope we all get through the next 4 years.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
absolutely. biden is just playing politics, he knows racists elected trump.



no way, repubs can keep the racists. the numbers are there for us to win without them.

change the results just slightly in the counties of lackwanna PA, macomb MI, and milwaukee WI and hillary is president.
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...and you keep talking like that's the optimal outcome!

Didn't you get the memo? The American people are sick and fucking tired of being taken for granted by elitists. I'll agree that they aren't handling it well but that basic fact remains.
 
tangerinegreen555

tangerinegreen555

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Yes, only if establishment Democrats cede control of the party over to actual progressives, which they won't. Watch what happens in the next 2 years with the fight for control over the Democratic party. They won't because they can't, because if they do, their donors won't keep funding their campaigns. So personally, I think unless we win the fight over control of the party, Republicans will continue to win elections. People can see corporatism within the Democratic establishment. That's not why we signed up to the party, that's why a lot of people are leaving. We want workers rights, investments into the middle-class, education, climate change, universal healthcare and college, a raise to a living wage, etc., We don't want to elect Republican light so they can blow smoke up our asses and pretend they care about us while they only focus on corporate interests and blame zero progress on Republican obstructionism. They had complete control of the government for 2 years when Obama won, look what they got us.. An individual mandate, Romneycare.

I am not impressed. The corruption is blatant.
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That's a lot of things to expect in two short years. The single most important and significant thing President Obama did those two years was avoiding the 2nd Great Depression. He successfully held it to a recession with a slow recovery which was a huge win, all things considered. That was, as Biden once said about something else, 'a big fucking deal'.

Personally, I'd like to see campaign finance reform which would take care of some of your concerns by default. Some limits on lobbying wouldn't hurt either.

And the ACA is better than what we had preceding it. It's not what I wanted, but there are millions of people benefiting so I see it as for the greater good. My daughter got medical insurance from age 22-26 after college from the ACA (forcing my multimillion dollar greedy corporation employer to pay for it) and I appreciate that from President Obama.

There is no shame in being a Democrat. Keep your head up, we're trying. It's never easy, it's always a struggle and you better be ready to roll up your sleeves and work for progress. My generation won't be here forever.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
...and you keep talking like that's the optimal outcome!

Didn't you get the memo? The American people are sick and fucking tired of being taken for granted by elitists. I'll agree that they aren't handling it well but that basic fact remains.
Click to expand...
stop buying into the "elitist" bullshit.
 
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