Young black males and public education.

[Rob Roy]

There are private schools in the USA. Free market principles are applied, they compete and the market is there for provate schooling....

You know why this industry has not outgrown and wiped out public education? I mean you would think companies would be jumping at the chance. The market is HUGE given how is mandated every kid go to school.

It is because the industry has seen that there is no profit in education past a certain class size. The logistical requirements are too much and the risk is too high- real estate, teachers, security, insurances etc. Its not a profitable enterprise to make education accessible to EVERY person. Education is only profitable if student selection is limited, classes are small, and the cost per credit is high. There is no other argument this is just the reality of the world we live in. Anything else is based on false premises and assumptions, not grounded in facts and reality.

So there are two options: let capitalism take its course and have the majority of people in the US completely cutoff from education bc of price - or you provide schooling for 'free' and let each individual make the most of school if they choose to.... make it a public service that has to be provided by society and that way everybody benefits.

You can try to say whatever you want about duress but the bottom line is history and reality prove you wrong.

Well, welcome to the discussion. I wonder how long you'll stick around after I dismantle your arguments and flawed assumptions.

Yes, I know why private education hasn't wiped out "public schools". It is because public schools are backed by guns, rather than voluntary business arrangements like any sensible service ought to be.

Your turn.

Oh..almost forgot, your claim that free market principles exist in the present "education" market in the USA is specious.

 

[londonfog]

Except you're wrong. When a person buys a house they agree to pay the owner a sum of money. If they can't reach agreement that person can make an offer to another person for another house and if they can reach agreement the purchase happens.

Property tax = an oxymoron If the characteristics of property and tax are understood, my equation is irrefutable.

*benefits

So when you purchased your home you were not made aware of the amount of your property tax ?

 

[redivider]

Well, welcome to the discussion. I wonder how long you'll stick around after I dismantle your arguments and flawed assumptions.

Yes, I know why private education hasn't wiped out "public schools". It is because public schools are backed by guns, rather than voluntary business arrangements like any sensible service ought to be.

Your turn.

Oh..almost forgot, your claim that free market principles exist in the present "education" market in the USA is specious.

These guys really are obsessed with guns.

Public schools are backed by history and reality. Everybody in society (rich, poor, middle class) benefits from having some sort of basic education infrastructure built into the fabric of society and having it be a public service you dont have to pay for if you cannot afford it.

This is just the truth. I know it is sort of vogue to ignore reality and to have 'bubbles' form with a reality that molds itself to your ideal- but I am just mentioning facts.

Nowhere on earth can you show me system where private schools did such a wonderful job in terms of accessibility and performance that the govt can just do away with public education 100% and leave it up to 0the market.

Its just not the way this particular deal works.

Even in Highland Park in Dallas. Where the billionaires of the south gather and you see companies quoting christmas decorations startig at 30K bc these guys actually have that kind of cash .... even that fucking neighborhood which is filled with the top 1% has a public school system with a highschool and everything. Its one of the most coveted school systems in the state and its run by a public entity bc even the rich know what a bad deal it would be to privatize that particular sector of the economy.. just think about that. One of the richest neighborhoods in one of the biggest cities of one if the biggest and most prosperous states in the US has public schools to give the kids access to education that would not be available if only private enterprises were entrusted with this.... Think about that for a second and get back to me....

 

[londonfog]

Public ownership of something is a façade. It is a created term to dupe hapless people into the abyss of servitude without the hapless serf feeling the giant dick of the state slide in. You are well greased my friend, now moan some more for Nanny!


Oh to answer your question, yes. Sorry, I got off track framing the reply.

Do you care to share your ideas on how we pay for public schools without property tax ?

 

[st0wandgrow]

You need to back up a bit. The efficacy of a thing that is involuntarily funded doesn't provide a reason to use threats to acquire funding. Whether public schools suck (they do) or not, the way they are funded needs to changed...because it is wrong.


You need to find a way to create competition and apply free market principles which rely on peaceful and voluntary funding from WILLING customers. If you fail to do that, what differentiates public schools method of funding from the same method used by thugs?

Are you suggesting that parents shell out the money for their child's kindergarten class? That seems to be where you're going with this given your views on taxes.

So what if a single mother of 3 couldn't afford the tuition? Would her child just go without an education?

 

[Rob Roy]

So when you purchased your home you were not made aware of the amount of your property tax ?

Blaming the victim of a theft or rape is not a very kind thing to do and fails to refute that "property tax" is a form of extortion.

Having an awareness of the potential occurrence of an offensive action against a person or their property doesn't shift what happens.

If I told you, in order for you to "own" something, I'd come by on a periodic basis to collect a ransom or I'll seize your property wouldn't I be extorting from you? Yes, I would. So why do you deny it is extortion when somebody else does it ?

 

[NLXSK1]

Are you suggesting that parents shell out the money for their child's kindergarten class? That seems to be where you're going with this given your views on taxes.

So what if a single mother of 3 couldn't afford the tuition? Would her child just go without an education?

Why dont we have a discussion about why a woman has 3 kids and no way to support them.

It would seem there is a functional problem there.

 

[Rob Roy]

Are you suggesting that parents shell out the money for their child's kindergarten class? That seems to be where you're going with this given your views on taxes.

So what if a single mother of 3 couldn't afford the tuition? Would her child just go without an education?

I'm not suggesting anything. I'm calling something what it is.

A thing cannot be two opposing things at once. If you own something, it is YOUR property. If another person places a unilateral lien on your HOME, and threatens to seize it, using armed men, unless you give them money...a theft is occurring.

Are you suggesting that I can go to somebody and without any agreement or blessing from that individual extort from them and it isn't a kind of theft ?

 

[Rob Roy]

Do you care to share your ideas on how we pay for public schools without property tax ?

Without the use of violent threats and home seizure and in ways that empower people to interact on a voluntary and consensual basis.

I'm even suggesting we could do that with how people buy their food. Oh wait, we already do that.

 

[londonfog]

Blaming the victim of a theft or rape is not a very kind thing to do and fails to refute that "property tax" is a form of extortion.

Having an awareness of the potential occurrence of an offensive action against a person or their property doesn't shift what happens.

If I told you, in order for you to "own" something, I'd come by on a periodic basis to collect a ransom or I'll seize your property wouldn't I be extorting from you? Yes, I would. So why do you deny it is extortion when somebody else does it ?

the question was.

So when you purchased your home you were not made aware of the amount of your property tax ?

it is a yes or no question. You wrote a lot of bullshit. Try again with a yes or no

 

[londonfog]

Without the use of violent threats and home seizure and in ways that empower people to interact on a voluntary and consensual basis.

I'm even suggesting we could do that with how people buy their food. Oh wait, we already do that.

So everyone is going to voluntary support public school funding ? What fucking planet do you live on ? How much would you voluntarily give a year to support public schools ? Sounds like you just want to bitch and complain without any type of workable solution.
When you just bitch about a problem without a solution to the problem...you become part of the problem

 

[st0wandgrow]

I'm not suggesting anything. I'm calling something what it is.

A thing cannot be two opposing things at once. If you own something, it is YOUR property. If another person places a unilateral lien on your HOME, and threatens to seize it, using armed men, unless you give them money...a theft is occurring.

Are you suggesting that I can go to somebody and without any agreement or blessing from that individual extort from them and it isn't a kind of theft ?

You said: the way public schools are funded needs to be changed.

So, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on what these changes would look like...

Why dont we have a discussion about why a woman has 3 kids and no way to support them.

It would seem there is a functional problem there.

Are you pro life or pro choice?

 

[Rob Roy]

These guys really are obsessed with guns.

Public schools are backed by history and reality. Everybody in society (rich, poor, middle class) benefits from having some sort of basic education infrastructure built into the fabric of society and having it be a public service you dont have to pay for if you cannot afford it.

This is just the truth. I know it is sort of vogue to ignore reality and to have 'bubbles' form with a reality that molds itself to your ideal- but I am just mentioning facts.

Nowhere on earth can you show me system where private schools did such a wonderful job in terms of accessibility and performance that the govt can just do away with public education 100% and leave it up to 0the market.

Its just not the way this particular deal works.

Even in Highland Park in Dallas. Where the billionaires of the south gather and you see companies quoting christmas decorations startig at 30K bc these guys actually have that kind of cash .... even that fucking neighborhood which is filled with the top 1% has a public school system with a highschool and everything. Its one of the most coveted school systems in the state and its run by a public entity bc even the rich know what a bad deal it would be to privatize that particular sector of the economy.. just think about that. One of the richest neighborhoods in one of the biggest cities of one if the biggest and most prosperous states in the US has public schools to give the kids access to education that would not be available if only private enterprises were entrusted with this.... Think about that for a second and get back to me....

You didn't offer any refutation that government schools are funded thru threats of home seizure and government violence for failure to comply with the threat. Think about that and get back to me. You seem okay using guns in an offensive manner, which makes your gun comment sort of misplaced and a poorly constructed argument, since it applies to you and not me.



Normalizing unilateral extortion based "agreements" which are backed by threats of home seizure in order to force indoctrination on a person provides quite an education, but not the kind you seem to claim, if your eyes are open.

That's irrefutably what happens by the way, extortion and indoctrination, and no, it is not a "benefit" for everyone since negating a persons opportunity to politely decline something doesn't provide a benefit, it enforces the idea that "bullying" is an acceptable means. It isn't. You seem to ignore that part.

The means you are championing, offensive use of violence, is DEEPLY flawed. That is easy to point out, since I assume you would not like it if I extorted from you, would you?

The rest of your post is irrelevant and frankly not on point. You are advocating using offensive force as an acceptable means, which is really an indefensible argument and relies on the idea that using offensive force is okay for SOME people to do...which is of course a contradiction and would be like me saying "orgasms are good, therefore it's okay to use offensive force against somebody in order to achieve an orgasm". It fails to consider the means used, which is the fatal flaw you refuse to address.

 

[Rob Roy]

You said: the way public schools are funded needs to be changed.

So, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on what these changes would look like...




Are you pro life or pro choice?

The first thing I would do is empower people to make their own choices and not sanctify the use of offensive force and threats as an acceptable means to gain "customers". So, a myriad of things could happen, but none of them would attempt to separate the means used from the end result. Making an exception for SOME people to use offensive force as a means is a lot like rationalizing violence...because it IS violence.

I am pro mind my own business. I do not have a uterus and what other people do with theirs may meet with my disapproval, but it's not up to me to tell other people how to run their life. Conversely, it is never up to people to tell me how to run my life as long I honor their right to do the same.

 

[Rob Roy]

So everyone is going to voluntary support public school funding ? What fucking planet do you live on ? How much would you voluntarily give a year to support public schools ? Sounds like you just want to bitch and complain without any type of workable solution.
When you just bitch about a problem without a solution to the problem...you become part of the problem

I live on a planet where people are free to make their own choices and live with the consequences and NO person has a right to use offensive force and all people have a right to use defensive force.

If public schools purport to teach kids not to "bully", how does funding them thru threats of home seizure accomplish that ?

...and please try to be succinct, I'm having a hard time hearing you...are you talking out of URANUS?

 

[londonfog]

I live on a planet where people are free to make their own choices and live with the consequences and NO person has a right to use offensive force and all people have a right to use defensive force.

If public schools purport to teach kids not to "bully", how does funding them thru threats of home seizure accomplish that ?

...and please try to be succinct, I'm having a hard time hearing you...are you talking out of URANUS?

If you don't have a workable idea that would help fund public schooling, please STFU and continue to pay your property tax as well as any other taxes that enable me to continue to collect my pension. Thanks

 

[Rob Roy]

If you don't have a workable idea that would help fund public schooling, please STFU and continue to pay your property tax as well as any other taxes that enable me to continue to collect my pension. Thanks

Saying please STHFU is a lot like how government schools fund things. The use of "please" doesn't negate the STHFU.

I understand that you can't refute my argument that government uses threats of offensive violence to fund indoctrination, but you don't have to get your panties all twisted up just because an internet Sasquatch can beat you in a game of debate.

You're welcome.

 

[londonfog]

Saying please STHFU is a lot like how government schools fund things. The use of "please" doesn't negate the STHFU.

I understand that you can't refute my argument that government uses threats of offensive violence to fund indoctrination, but you don't have to get your panties all twisted up just because an internet Sasquatch can beat you in a game of debate.

You're welcome.

what is STHFU ? I'm still waiting on your suggestions and not a bunch of words. You used public schools, as well as you sons. Now pay those fucking property taxes to help the next.

 

[Rob Roy]

what is STHFU ? I'm still waiting on your suggestions and not a bunch of words. You used public schools, as well as you sons. Now pay those fucking property taxes to help the next.

It's an error, I thought given your propensity for building systems on erroneous and contradictory assumptions you might like it.

 

[Rob Roy]

the question was.



it is a yes or no question. You wrote a lot of bullshit. Try again with a yes or no

So, you think by saying something is already decided as a foregone assumption that it should forever exist in a given way, that it can never be examined or re-examined for any inherent flaws?

Oh well then, that sounds an awful lot like the argument slavers used when people wanted to discuss abolishing slavery doesn't it ?