Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
What country has implemented a universal system of healthcare, then voted it out because the citizens didn't support it?
None
The Problems With Biden
- Thread starter londonfog
- Start date
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Fogdog
Well-Known Member
It is a fact that 180 million people are being told by Bernie that they must give up healthcare coverage they like for a vague promise. It doesn't matter that the Heritage Foundation picked up on this. It only matters that more than a hundred million voters will not like this policy. That is a fact. Deal with that.I see, when you cite a right wing talking point promoted by the Heritage Foundation, they're the ones who've seen the error of their ways, but when someone who disagrees with you cites a statistic from a study once promoted by the brother in law of someone who once knew someone who voted for a Republican, they're a Trump supporter, fascist, right wing, Russian plant, troll...
Regurgitated right wing talking points, using words like "government controlled" & "government run healthcare" are Trumpian tactics designed specifically by think tanks and political strategists to scare uninformed people away from policies that would benefit them and the poor and the middle class at the expense of the rich and well off and corporations that pay little in taxes. "Moderates" like James Carville, Bill Maher, Donnie Deutch, etc. don't want revolutionary changes to the system that has benefitted them, I am shocked, look, this is my shocked face;can't you just see how shocked I am?
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
So now you move the goalposts.
Russia has moved away from universal system of healthcare to a hybrid where people buy private insurance if they can afford it. This growing trend is due to poor service provided by the public system. It is not germane to the discussion on what to do in the US but you began this distraction and I hope this post ends it. Universal healthcare is not always great. A lot depends on how it is funded and administered. This IS the key sticking point when it comes to Bernie Sanders plan because at this time, it is not clear that Medicare is able to absorb the huge increases in service nor has Bernie said how much it will cost or how it will be paid for. As I've said several times, more than a hundred million people don't like the idea of leaving their healthcare plan in exchange for a vague promise that "it will be great". As shown in Russia, not always.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
I didn't move the goalposts, the implication was inherent in the question since the beginning. No country has chosen to get rid of universal healthcare after implementation because everywhere it's been implemented it's worked and people like it. The collapse of the Soviet Union and global financial crisis are not examples of places citizens chose to get rid of universal healthcare because it wasn't working out for them.
Everything you say about Sanders is a verifiable lie, you just got busted using right wing propaganda against universal healthcare, and it's not the first time
Everything you say about Sanders is a verifiable lie, you just got busted using right wing propaganda against universal healthcare, and it's not the first time
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
You totally moved the goal post.
A government collapses because of overspending and piss poor economically stupid programs. We learned a lot of lessons from them that we should not emulate.
And again, I am all for universal healthcare, but it doesn't matter if we can't get 60 seats in the Senate, House, and President in Democratic hands to get anything done for anyone not in the Wealthy White Heterosexual Male Only agenda.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
You're delusional if you think anyone but Sanders has a chance to turn the Senate and keep the House. All the same voters who voted Dem in 2016 are still going to come out and vote in 2020, the only way to turn out young people, people of color, and progressives is by giving them something they want to vote for. The only candidate that has the grassroots campaign and ability to do that is Bernie Sanders. He's the only candidate that rivals Trump on social media, funding, and obliterates him in grassroots support.
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
Why do Bernie supporters have such a hard time admitting the disinformation campaign that the Russians waged in 2016? They worked to suppress the votes in the minority communities in key states that pushed Trump over in the electoral college. All that he won by was 80,000 votes. Trump won Michigan by 10k votes, while Jill Stein got over 50k in Michigan alone before taking in the suppression campaigns in the black and brown communities here. We can't let that happen again, we need to push back on the propaganda.
Also your little shitty statements like 'if I am not in your cult I must be the enemy' mentality is really annoying.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Racist to believe African Americans weren't intelligent enough to vote for Hillary Clinton because of Russian propaganda
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Yeah, you changed your question, aka moved the goalposts. Details are shown in hannimal's post above. Moving on to another topic you are wrong about,
It is a fact that Sanders has not said how his plan will be paid for and he hasn't produced a price tag for his plan.
His white paper on this subject clearly states he hasn't decided how it will be paid for and I can find no reference to any statement by Bernie for how much it will cost.
His bill, American Health Security Act of 2013 contains no total cost statement. Can you point me to a statement by Sanders where he tells us how much it will cost?
These are glaring issues that, if I can point to them, then others can and they won't be nearly as hospitable to these ideas. Bottom line is, there is no way that Bernie can convince enough of the 100 million or more voters who like their private insurance to switch to single payer government provided health care. His plan does say how much people will pay but not the total cost or how the whole thing will be paid for. Until it does, it's all just smoke and mirrors.
Bernie has done nothing of importance in 12 years as a Senator. He's not going to all of a sudden become a great leader. Nobody should vote for that.
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Fogdog
Well-Known Member
That's your theory, dude. You keep saying that women, black and Hispanic democratic voters were stupid and deceived by Hillary Clinton's -- as you claim without any evidence -- nefarious actions to rig the election. Yet white men were above that and not fooled.
No evidence of this yet you keep claiming it happened.
Brazile: I found 'no evidence' Democratic primary was rigged
Brazile: I found 'no evidence' Democratic primary was rigged
She also addressed reports she had sought to replace Hillary Clinton with Joe Biden.
www.politico.com
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
You really are not paying attention, in a cult, or just a paid troll, it is very hard to tell sometimes.
This is not about my feeling one way or another about anyones ability to see through a very sophisticated data manipulated micro targeting propaganda campaign being conducted by the Russian military.
They targeted everyone, and no one group was immune to their disinformation. They just spent the majority of their cat fishing on the minority communities because they are a key voting block for the Democrats.
You know since the Democrats are the only political party trying to actually help every American.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
That's not the question in front of us right now but agree. Anyone but Trump as Prez. Trump should be prosecuted just like anyone who commits the crimes he's committed.
PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Yep, there it is again. The bullshit and divisive propaganda.
The non-voting public have been asked why they didn't vote and they give have many reasons. The reason given in that equivalent to a Pravda poster is not among the main reasons whatsoever. Yet, here you are, telling us a divisive lie in your support for Sanders.
You were called an asshole by somebody for deriding independent contractors as low life scum. It wasn't me, but you were justifiably and accurately called out for being an asshole for the things you say.
it already has, friend, when Trump* defied our Constitution and the Senate approved it.
all good citizens won't be forced..
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Oh my, such a powerful and reasoned argument.asshole
Let me say it again. That bit about "I didn't vote because it wouldn't have mattered" is exactly what Republikkkans and Putin's troll army are pushing to suppress the vote. That and the BS "Democrats are same as Republikkkans" line. Both are intended to suppress the vote.
Both are untrue. I posted an analysis from Pew research that said a relatively few number of people think their vote didn't matter. To you that makes me an asshole. Goddamn, you are dumb.
abalonehx
Well-Known Member
Biden, or whoever the nominee is.
Well its definitely a significant step. He's only mentioned being President for life 27 times now publicly.