All BS set aside CMH yields

[TheChemist77]

You say your yield is more with the 945 worth of cmh compared to the 1200 worth of single ended hps? Same strain...same canopy type and what not? No other dramatic variables? If so...that is VERY interesting. Thats a savings of almost 300 watts for the better yield. That would really add up in bigger setups. Looking like single ended (mogul socket) traditional mh and hps bulbs of any wattage are getting left in the dust what with all the new lamp technology out there. Double ended...cmh...cobs...plasma...its definitely a new day for us growers. I knew eventually traditional HID lighting would get surpassed but not so extreme with all the different options....and pretty much all at once.

everything the same xept the lamps, i ran hps/mh for 20+ years. i bought the cmh lamps in 2013 and started testing,, i was really impressed, never got better than 1.3 gpw w/ hps,, my first run using 2 315's i hit 1.4 gpw, then i started adding more light 3 315's over a 4x6 flood table, same table and strain i had run hundreds of times w/ 2 600 watt hps's above..till now ive hit 1.56 gpw using 2 315's and 3 315's or 945 watts ive hit 1.62 gpw i try to keep 3ft from canopy to bulb for the first 3 weeks of bloom then drop the distance to 2.5 ft..
w/ 2 600 watt hps's i used 6in air cooled hoods and vented the hot air out of the room.. w 3 315's i use open hoods w an exaughst fan set to kick on when it hits 78d f at the ceiling,,,it really never kicks on.. the 315's dont produce much heat maybe the same as a 250watt hps but much less than a 400 or 600 watt hps/mh lamp.. ive now put an intake and exaughst on a timer so every 2 hours it brings in fresh air.. ive never used c02,, but if i did i think the 2 gram per watt may be achievable with ceramics,, my current goal is 1.8gpw and i think its doable i just need to keep tinkering...idk theres always HOPE

 

[TheChemist77]

What about temps for 945 CMH versus 1200 HPS? I assume 1200 HPS are two 600s.

yes 2 600's produce a hole lot more heat.. 945 watts w/ open hoods and the ballast is ontop the fixtures and heat is easily managed w/ circulation fans..w hps i had ballasts outside the room and aircooled hoods,,way more heat

 

[ganja361]

I've got 5 of the 630's in a sealed room and yes they are much cooler than HPS but if I'm not running AC they are still hot. I've been running on 10% overdrive for 4 weeks now and temps will get up to 105 without AC. I run C02 though so the plants don't mind a little heat. Personally I think getting a 315 fixture is a waste of money. Spend the little bit extra for the second bulb. You won't regret it. And if you really want to splurge Dimlux out performs every other brand on the current market.

 

[since1991]

everything the same xept the lamps, i ran hps/mh for 20+ years. i bought the cmh lamps in 2013 and started testing,, i was really impressed, never got better than 1.3 gpw w/ hps,, my first run using 2 315's i hit 1.4 gpw, then i started adding more light 3 315's over a 4x6 flood table, same table and strain i had run hundreds of times w/ 2 600 watt hps's above..till now ive hit 1.56 gpw using 2 315's and 3 315's or 945 watts ive hit 1.62 gpw i try to keep 3ft from canopy to bulb for the first 3 weeks of bloom then drop the distance to 2.5 ft..
w/ 2 600 watt hps's i used 6in air cooled hoods and vented the hot air out of the room.. w 3 315's i use open hoods w an exaughst fan set to kick on when it hits 78d f at the ceiling,,,it really never kicks on.. the 315's dont produce much heat maybe the same as a 250watt hps but much less than a 400 or 600 watt hps/mh lamp.. ive now put an intake and exaughst on a timer so every 2 hours it brings in fresh air.. ive never used c02,, but if i did i think the 2 gram per watt may be achievable with ceramics,, my current goal is 1.8gpw and i think its doable i just need to keep tinkering...idk theres always HOPE

Damn son. This is very interesting. I know i would need alot of cmh fixtures. And its the reason i went with Gavita double ended 6/750's (less over all wattage by 20 to 30 % for same or more weight than traditional mogul socket 1000 and 600 watt bulbs). Your saying ditch ALL hps 600 to 1000 watters hps whether si gle or double....ditch the ridiculous air cooled hoods/glass/pain in the ass duct work (which. I did years ago) and can kill it with just a bunch of 315 cmh 'ers? My buddy told me they dont replace doubles but you can use less and the ones you do replace...use the cmh. And your overall wattage would lower but yield and especially quality would go up. I wish knew without investing because i would hate to get a disappointed yield if it werent true. A very exfpensive fuk up. About 4000 watts worth or about 12 to 13 cmh fixtures.

 

[since1991]

Basically would love to get the same or better yield and quality using 3500 to 4000 watts worth of cmh compared to 4800 watts of double ended hps. Something just doesnt sound right. In my gut....which is usually right...its not jiving. I get a consistent 24 to 30 ounces from my Gavita 6/750's and i almost exclusively just use the 600p watt setting because of my 6.5 height basement rooms.

 

[ganja361]

Damn son. This is very interesting. I know i would need alot of cmh fixtures. And its the reason i went with Gavita double ended 6/750's (less over all wattage by 20 to 30 % for same or more weight than traditional mogul socket 1000 and 600 watt bulbs). Your saying ditch ALL hps 600 to 1000 watters hps whether si gle or double....ditch the ridiculous air cooled hoods/glass/pain in the ass duct work (which. I did years ago) and can kill it with just a bunch of 315 cmh 'ers? My buddy told me they dont replace doubles but you can use less and the ones you do replace...use the cmh. And your overall wattage would lower but yield and especially quality would go up. I wish knew without investing because i would hate to get a disappointed yield if it werent true. A very exfpensive fuk up. About 4000 watts worth or about 12 to 13 cmh fixtures.

Not exactly. You'd only need 4 630 Dimlux pro expert series. 630 CMH is about identical to output of SE 1000 HPS. I run a 630 per 4x4 space and get minimum 1lb per light. I'm hoping to get closer to the 2lb per light this run. Don't waste your money on single 315 fixtures. Dimlux and nanolux make great options. Dimlux has the better ballast and hood.

 

[since1991]

I've got 5 of the 630's in a sealed room and yes they are much cooler than HPS but if I'm not running AC they are still hot. I've been running on 10% overdrive for 4 weeks now and temps will get up to 105 without AC. I run C02 though so the plants don't mind a little heat. Personally I think getting a 315 fixture is a waste of money. Spend the little bit extra for the second bulb. You won't regret it. And if you really want to splurge Dimlux out performs every other brand on the current market.

Wouldnt it be better to break them 630 watt cmh 2 lamp fixtures in the smaller 315's...all broken up covering about 3x3 each....More point sources of light....more spread/even canopy. Ezpecally when you need 3500 to 4500 watts worth?

 

[ganja361]

Wouldnt it be better to break them 630 watt cmh 2 lamp fixtures in the smaller 315's...all broken up covering about 3x3 each....More point sources of light....more spread/even canopy. Ezpecally when you need 3500 to 4500 watts worth?

Personally I haven't noticed many dead spaces. I'm running 8 in an 8x16 space and getting equal yield to 8000w of SE HPS but much better quality. If I kill this crop like I'm hoping then for fun I'm going to throw in a couple DE or some vertical LEDs for mixed spectrum on the next crop. The next leap in technology is when a company like philips perfects the DE CMH.

 

[since1991]

Not exactly. You'd only need 4 630 Dimlux pro expert series. 630 CMH is about identical to output of SE 1000 HPS. I run a 630 per 4x4 space and get minimum 1lb per light. I'm hoping to get closer to the 2lb per light this run. Don't waste your money on single 315 fixtures. Dimlux and nanolux make great options. Dimlux has the better ballast and hood.

Oh i see. So the double 630 fixture basically covers a 4x4. I was under the impression that the 315's cover 3x3 . This changes everything. And if i ran a 630 and got nust 16 zips or a 315 and got just 8 or so zips...i wouldnt like that at all. Again something doesnt jive. Have any of you for absolutely postively replaced 1000 watt Gavita or like brand double ended commercial fixtures with 630 to 945 watts of cmh and say the yields and quality far surpass it? Or hell....even the same? Because even if its about equal...its WAY worth it. My inner guy feeling is telling mea 2 to 1 cmh to double ended hps is the way to go. Correct me if iam wrong

 

[ganja361]

I chop down in 10 days. I'll keep you informed. I personally haven't ran any DE rooms so I can't compare on that. But I want to stagger them and really get a nice spread.

 

[since1991]

Oh btw....just seen the new Sun Systems catalog at my local shop. Thet go one called "The Beast". Lol. Its a 1000 watt double ended in the middle. One 315 cmh on either side of it. And the Double ended is dimmable down to 600 watta i believe (dont know if your spectrum gets a little wonky doing it though ) I dont really need them bit it seems The Beast fixture would or could easliy replace well over 2000 watts of old school single ended hps. So many damn lightting choices the last few years. Plasma...Induction...Cmh...LED...HID...COB T5'before just a ton that wasnt there just a few years before. Gets confusing to get the right ligjt source to a particular style and setup. Mogul socket single ended HID' s are starting to look like dinosaurs. And not worth it (falling prices of cannabis) to run them when there is a cheaper alternative.

 

[TheChemist77]

Damn son. This is very interesting. I know i would need alot of cmh fixtures. And its the reason i went with Gavita double ended 6/750's (less over all wattage by 20 to 30 % for same or more weight than traditional mogul socket 1000 and 600 watt bulbs). Your saying ditch ALL hps 600 to 1000 watters hps whether si gle or double....ditch the ridiculous air cooled hoods/glass/pain in the ass duct work (which. I did years ago) and can kill it with just a bunch of 315 cmh 'ers? My buddy told me they dont replace doubles but you can use less and the ones you do replace...use the cmh. And your overall wattage would lower but yield and especially quality would go up. I wish knew without investing because i would hate to get a disappointed yield if it werent true. A very exfpensive fuk up. About 4000 watts worth or about 12 to 13 cmh fixtures.

ditch traditional hps/mh for ceramic,, but DE i have no experience with so i cant advise either way.. ive heard good and bad on double ended hps,,however i did hear a 1k gavita de is 20%% less efficient than the 315watt lec lamps

 

[since1991]

I been doing some research last few days. I think i got the skinny now. Using 2 315' (or one 630 lec) for every 600 to 1000 watts worth of double ended HPS is thee ultimate setup apparently. The 2 pair up together perfectly. Your lec's are for the extra blue that really bumps the quality and your double endeds for the fatness and yield. I got some ideas i wanna try out. Visiting my boys nice sized op recently got my gears turning.

 

[elkamino]

I been doing some research last few days. I think i got the skinny now. Using 2 315' (or one 630 lec) for every 600 to 1000 watts worth of double ended HPS is thee ultimate setup apparently. The 2 pair up together perfectly. Your lec's are for the extra blue that really bumps the quality and your double endeds for the fatness and yield.

Any of your research links stand out in particular? Thanks!

 

[since1991]

Any of your research links stand out in particular? Thanks!

Not really. Just figured some shit out myself on them new Grow Beast fixtures (two 315 lec's and one 600 double ended hps in the middle) with a light rail....in a certain application i feel as though one could crush it with 1230 watts of combined LEC & HPS de. The key is a light rail with extension kit to 9 feet. The fixtures caught my eye in the new Sunlight Supply catalog i got at my local shop. They looked like they had potential in my eye so i googled it. And of course forum growers just dissed the lamp right off tje bat. So that REALLY got me interested. Come to find out....with my line of thinking....not only are they not bad....they are damn near perfect for a certain setup. The light rail (which i hardly recommend except for very specific applications) being the key.

 

[TheChemist77]

my opinion is 2 315's are better than a single 630watt fixture, you can spread them out for a larger coverage area, get it closer to canopy, heat is spread more evenly.. just my opinion tho,,im sure there are times or area's that would be better with the 630 like a 4x4 tent,, but then again for me id rather have the option of 2 hoods rather than 1

 

[since1991]

Just found out that the Sun Systems Grow Beast fixture was designed with the popular 4x8 area or table in mind. And with a 6 foot light rail moving just a little back and forth so all canopy gets the mix of lec and hps de. Iam seriously thinking about getting the whole setup as an experiment aside from my regualr operation. The usual setup with a 4x8 area or table is 2 1000 watters (single ended) or 3 600 watters (single as well). The Grow Beast is just 1230 total...a 315 lec on each side with a 600 watt hps de in the middle (you can put a full on 1000 hps de in there but you would need to raise the fixture so high as to render the lec lamps damn near useless. ) But anyways...iam gonna try it here soon. If i can get 1800 to 2000 watt single ended yields ( 3 to 4 pounds) from 1230 watts of de and lec combined its a no brainer. And the hype is justified with lec and hps de together for state of the art cutting edge lighting. And besides...been wanting to upgrade my tester room. And this would be perfect.

 

[pinner420]

Trichs came into range quicker and this part of the plant seemed healthier overall. Chopping tomorrow!

 

[since1991]

You can go this route but it just isn't expensive to DIY your own COB LED setup. The basic parts are less than $300, and the kit mentioned above requires electronics knowledge to properly wire it up so you don't fuck up and smoke the ballast. So there ya go, it's already competitive on an initial cost basis, and there is no denying they're better.

Really, in 2016 the choice is COB LED first, something else if that cannot be sourced as a distant second.

Cob led is out of most peoples reach...just for the simple fact...we want to grow buds NOW...not dick with sourcing and building out a fancy grow light. Its definitely NOT the first choice for most growers in 2016. Thats my reason anyways. Sounds like a big pain in the ass to be honest. I will wait until they are commercially available at a price i can afford. I started to delve into the whole cob thing and quickly (smart too) backed off. A large majority of growers are thinking like this too. We all know its the mostest and bestest light but ya gotta find the info...source the parts...and build the goddamn thing yourself. Its a whole another geeky hobby if you ask me. And i already got one of those...growing dope.

 

[ttystikk]

Cob led is out of most peoples reach...just for the simple fact...we want to grow buds NOW...not dick with sourcing and building out a fancy grow light. Its definitely NOT the first choice for most growers in 2016. Thats my reason anyways. Sounds like a big pain in the ass to be honest. I will wait until they are commercially available at a price i can afford. I started to delve into the whole cob thing and quickly (smart too) backed off. A large majority of growers are thinking like this too. We all know its the mostest and bestest light but ya gotta find the info...source the parts...and build the goddamn thing yourself. Its a whole another geeky hobby if you ask me. And i already got one of those...growing dope.

Here's the flaw in your logic;

2016 IS OVER.

Any of a number of different sources are selling COB LED right here on RIU in kit form, all you do is assemble the parts, and in so doing save a bundle. Having to source all your own shit is the part that's sooooo 2016.