Bucket size & point of diminishing returns?

[HydroDawg421]

I've previously had a lot of success using 5-gal buckets in RDWC. I noticed that the roots almost completely fill the 5-gal bucket. I've thought about going to a MUCH larger container like 15-20 gallons or maybe larger.

Questions:

1) Will the roots always fill the container regardless of size?

2) is bigger always better? How big is too big?

3) At which size do you hit the point of diminishing returns? i.e... point where it's more costly, too much of a hassle for any net gain in product?

 

[DrBlaze]

Currently experimenting with just this issue. In my experience, 5 gallon buckets are only good for veg, I need to switch them over to a larger bucket in my grow area, as they completely get choked off. Some strains grow bigger root systems though, and I can't even make it through veg with the 5 gallon. I've got a few 10 gallon buckets that work ok for some strains, but not all, so I've decided to just go larger like you're contemplating. In my experience one of the biggest secrets to DWC is lots of water circulation and air in the root zone, which you're not going to get in 5 gallon buckets.

As far as your questions go, a lot of that is going to be strain dependent, as well as how long you veg - obviously the larger the plant the bigger the root zone.

 

[rkymtnman]

Will the roots always fill the container regardless of size?

no

is bigger always better? How big is too big?

bigger roots, bigger fruits

At which size do you hit the point of diminishing returns? i.e... point where it's more costly, too much of a hassle for any net gain in product?

how big of plants are you gonna grow? do you have 20 ft ceilings?

 

[The_Enthusiast]

I tried few methods now I'm using this cost efficient method and suitable for tailoring to my growroom.
something like this but built in a snake like design:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/cme_public_images/www_ehow_com/cdn-viper.demandvideo.com/media/147239fa-6a9b-41d5-9a31-8c7f2c104587/jpeg/94660d55-91ae-44f1-b14f-80875acf13b3_0.jpg
In my case it's a 110 mm diameter PP pipe and they are in netpots of 7.5cm and 13 cm apart (center to center of plant)
They are 2-2,5w in incubator for rooting, than 1,5-2w in VEG (DWC)

Some of plants are amnesia hybrids some jack herrer hybrids (77 days of flowering)
There are 24 plants in 4 x 6 configuration (4 rows and 6 plants per row) all in 115cm x 80cm space and reservoir is 150-200L
The pipes hold about 20L when the "dam" is in upright position (normal position).

My last batch netted me 550g DRY under 2 year old 600W HPS (magnetic ballast) with AAW (without super "shader")
And one Amnesia phenotype netted 60g...

So, back to your question, as you can see the plants don't need two much space in solution (one of the strengths of hydroponics)
But its good to have a "large" reservoir for PH and EC stability (in this setup I can leave my growroom for over a week and PH moves max 0.2 and EC moves max 0.3)

 

[DrBlaze]

I tried few methods now I'm using this cost efficient method and suitable for tailoring to my growroom.
something like this but built in a snake like design:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/cme_public_images/www_ehow_com/cdn-viper.demandvideo.com/media/147239fa-6a9b-41d5-9a31-8c7f2c104587/jpeg/94660d55-91ae-44f1-b14f-80875acf13b3_0.jpg
In my case it's a 110 mm diameter PP pipe and they are in netpots of 7.5cm and 13 cm apart (center to center of plant)
They are 2-2,5w in incubator for rooting, than 1,5-2w in VEG (DWC)

Some of plants are amnesia hybrids some jack herrer hybrids (77 days of flowering)
There are 24 plants in 4 x 6 configuration (4 rows and 6 plants per row) all in 115cm x 80cm space and reservoir is 150-200L
The pipes hold about 20L when the "dam" is in upright position (normal position).

My last batch netted me 550g DRY under 2 year old 600W HPS (magnetic ballast) with AAW (without super "shader")
And one Amnesia phenotype netted 60g...

So, back to your question, as you can see the plants don't need two much space in solution (one of the strengths of hydroponics)
But its good to have a "large" reservoir for PH and EC stability (in this setup I can leave my growroom for over a week and PH moves max 0.2 and EC moves max 0.3)

Well this is a good example of why the question is dependent on style of growing, and really has more to do with DWC than what you're doing. Obviously a 20 gram plant doesn't have a giant root system, but last run 1 my smallest plant was around 250g, my largest was over 700g. So really, each style has its own concerns a lot of which can't be applied to both.

 

[The_Enthusiast]

Well this is a good example of why the question is dependent on style of growing, and really has more to do with DWC than what you're doing. Obviously a 20 gram plant doesn't have a giant root system, but last run 1 my smallest plant was around 250g, my largest was over 700g. So really, each style has its own concerns a lot of which can't be applied to both.

Yeah, but I almost have no veg time, only "rooting time" - they are about 15-25 cm (depending on strain) tall. And during cloning they are about 7 cm tall over rockwool.
I firmly believe that SOG is the best method economically wise if you are not limited by number of plants.
But on to hydroponics, you can probably have 3-5x (maybe more) smaller container for solution vs soil for same size plant, i think root bound is kinda hard to achieve in DWC.
I used to have few mother plants in ebb n flow system in 3.7L (18 cm) pot with clay pellets - they were a monster: they could grow up to 70+ cm and maybe 40cm diameter of foliage and have maybe 50-70 good cuttings.
After few months, maybe 8-10 i needed to remove them so i inspected the pot - it was full i mean full of root mass

 

[DrBlaze]

i think root bound is kinda hard to achieve in DWC.

If that was the case this thread wouldn't exist

they were a monster: they could grow up to 70+ cm and maybe 40cm diameter of foliage

The large plant I was referring to earlier was 6 feet wide and 7 feet tall (180cm+ wide, 210cm+ tall). The 10-12 gallon (37-44L) bucket was much too small It became rootbound in the second week of flower and certainly affected the yield on that plant. That should have been a 2 pound+ plant.

 

[rkymtnman]

if only i had the space for something like this...

 

[rkymtnman]

I firmly believe that SOG is the best method economically wise if you are not limited by number of plants.

i'd say scrog. best way to get the most light exposure to all bud sites.

 

[The_Enthusiast]

i'd say scrog. best way to get the most light exposure to all bud sites.

but isn't labor = resources, veg time = resources?
Isn't it more practical (if your strain lets you) to grow single cola with minimal veg time?

 

[rkymtnman]

but isn't labor = resources, veg time = resources?
Isn't it more practical (if your strain lets you) to grow single cola with minimal veg time?

i see your points. but to get the most yield for a given space (lets say 2x2), a scrog would be the way to go.

i personally have a plant count but even if i didn't and got busted,, i'd rather have a few plants versus a bunch in a sog.

 

[The_Enthusiast]

Here they count dry weight and dry weight potential not plant number so much

 

[rkymtnman]

Here they count dry weight and dry weight potential not plant number so much

opposite here. i can have 3 plants in bloom but they could be 20 foot tall monsters.

i think one good thing about sog is that you could do a bunch of different strains in the flooded tube that you posted.

 

[The_Enthusiast]

opposite here. i can have 3 plants in bloom but they could be 20 foot tall monsters.

i think one good thing about sog is that you could do a bunch of different strains in the flooded tube that you posted.

Yea, i do few (two) strains per batch, butt they have to be about even in size, or bigger ones outside.. a bit smaller ones inside - but still about the same height.
I don't like to hassle with scrog it's... demanding vs sog. I even tried vertical 90 plants on a 4 story circle around 600W SE HPS - again labor demanding

 

[rkymtnman]

Yea, i do few (two) strains per batch, butt they have to be about even in size, or bigger ones outside.. a bit smaller ones inside - but still about the same height.
I don't like to hassle with scrog it's... demanding vs sog. I even tried vertical 90 plants on a 4 story circle around 600W SE HPS - again labor demanding

sometimes i do 3 of the same or all different. i don't do anything to my plants, just let them grow as is, no trimming, topping, fimming, scrog etc. i like to stress them the least amount as possible.

 

[Ozzfan1229]

no

bigger roots, bigger fruits

how big of plants are you gonna grow? do you have 20 ft ceilings?

My 5 gallon buckets are filled and my plants from floor to top only about 4 feet. Northern Lights x Skunk #1

2 plants, same seed source, same batch 1 is definately more sativa strain and 1 is more indica

 

[zabster151]

3.5 gallon buckets is fine for 5 ft tall plants plants if trained correctly you can triple your yield.
high stress training, low stress training, FIM Toping, right nutrients, pruning, pruning, pruning.

 

[DrBlaze]

3.5 gallon buckets is fine for 5 ft tall plants plants if trained correctly you can triple your yield.
high stress training, low stress training, FIM Toping, right nutrients, pruning, pruning, pruning.

You train your roots? And prune them? Please tell us more

Or are you saying that you slow down root growth by the way you train the tops of your plants.

 

[dangledo]

went from hydrofarms to 20 gallon brutes with roughly the same veg time.

was my biggest dwc yield that hit over a pound