Week 8 Flower Still SMALL BUDS!!!!

[Hydromantic]

Hey Guys,

So I am at Day 98 since Germination and 50 days into Flower. My buds are starting to show signs that they are getting close to harvest but the buds are so small! It was my first grow ever but I'm not sure what went wrong. Im thinking it may be that the light was under powered for the grow space. I also want to make sure I am not reading the harvest signs incorrectly.

Set-up:

(4) 5 gal buckets with two air stones in each bucket
(1) 315w CMH
3 x 3 x 7h Grow Tent
PH 5.5-6.0
PPM's currently 850
Air Temp is 70
Using AN nutes, currently Sensi Bloom, b-52 and Over drive
Distilled water

Im wondering if the plants went through a giant stretch and thats why the buds are so small or maybe its just the underpowered wattage, or I am harvesting too early, they also had some chemical burn.... Im at a loss to be honest.

I have been monitoring the Trichomes every day... They are currently 80 percent Cloudy.

I am going to be flushing using Flawless finish

Pictures:

 

[GroErr]

They look great, small buds aren't necessarily bad, mostly genetics driving production/size of the buds/plant. You can have small producers but fire and large producers putting out crap, I always prefer the quality over quantity.

I'd say give them another 7-10 days for a couple of reasons. Trichs still look like a lot of clear in there, some white hairs still showing. Hairs should be turned (brown/redish/curled) and trichs can definitely cloud up some more.

315w CMH in a 3x3 is perfect so don't think the size of buds has much to do with anything but genetics. You can pull a pound with that light, but it has to be the right genetics/pheno.

 

[goldberg71b]

Also 8 weeks is no magic number. Sativas can take 16,20,24 weeks. Indicas Finish faster. Their bud structure is different as well. Many strains are hybrids and they'll have both sativa and indica in them. These strains may have predominance to lean one way or the other. But if you pop enough of them you'll get the spectrum. From more sativa to a combo and then more indica. So what type of seed and where you got it is important. Now if you got a bag seeds from a hybrid there can also be a wider variance than the original seeds. It looks to me like you've got a classic hybrid. Not full indica or sativa but rather a mixture.

 

[Anon Emaus]

Yeah I agree with GroErr, sometimes you just don't get the genetics to produce big buds. I actually have a perfect example in my tent right now, I run a 3x3 tent with a 600w and I'm running 1 strain but from two different seeds and due to the phenotype differences one plant has perfect fat cola cone shaped buds and the other has little nug patches like your plant. Both had the same conditions(they even share a reservoir) with the same light but genetics really takes hold of yield. I've grown a 20oz single plant in my tent and I've grow as low as a single 13 oz plant, just comes down to genetics.

Your 315w is great for a 3x3 tent, so no issue on lighting. And yeah, give it another week or two. I always figure at least 10 weeks, not 8(altho you could be done in 8 if it's the right strain, or it could be 15+ weeks).

 

[Hydromantic]

I should have stated the strains...
Im growing GDP, ChemDawg, Blue dream, and Fire OG

GDP and ChemDawg were grown from seed and seem to be the furthest away from harvest.

Fire OG and Blue Dream were both Clones and are what I though was the cusp of Harvest. I started flushing Fire OG and BlueDream a day and a half ago. I will send updated photos of the trichomes in a few minutes as I just realized that those photos are a week old... LOL

 

[Hydromantic]

Order of pictures:
Fire OG


ChemDawg:


GDP:


Blue Dream:

 

[Hydromantic]

Sooooo...

Should I continue flushing Fire OG and Blue Dream or put them back on Nutes. Remember I am doing DWC so it isn't as long of a flush time...

 

[Hydromantic]

I should also mention that it is has 50 days since I switched to 12/12 NOT since they fully made the transition

 

[Hydromantic]

They look great, small buds aren't necessarily bad, mostly genetics driving production/size of the buds/plant. You can have small producers but fire and large producers putting out crap, I always prefer the quality over quantity.

I'd say give them another 7-10 days for a couple of reasons. Trichs still look like a lot of clear in there, some white hairs still showing. Hairs should be turned (brown/redish/curled) and trichs can definitely cloud up some more.

315w CMH in a 3x3 is perfect so don't think the size of buds has much to do with anything but genetics. You can pull a pound with that light, but it has to be the right genetics/pheno.

I forgot to mention the above information...

Glad to hear that I don't need to invest in another light though!

 

[Hydromantic]

Also 8 weeks is no magic number. Sativas can take 16,20,24 weeks. Indicas Finish faster. Their bud structure is different as well. Many strains are hybrids and they'll have both sativa and indica in them. These strains may have predominance to lean one way or the other. But if you pop enough of them you'll get the spectrum. From more sativa to a combo and then more indica. So what type of seed and where you got it is important. Now if you got a bag seeds from a hybrid there can also be a wider variance than the original seeds. It looks to me like you've got a classic hybrid. Not full indica or sativa but rather a mixture.

I ended up adding more information above...

Thanks for the response!

 

[Hydromantic]

Yeah I agree with GroErr, sometimes you just don't get the genetics to produce big buds. I actually have a perfect example in my tent right now, I run a 3x3 tent with a 600w and I'm running 1 strain but from two different seeds and due to the phenotype differences one plant has perfect fat cola cone shaped buds and the other has little nug patches like your plant. Both had the same conditions(they even share a reservoir) with the same light but genetics really takes hold of yield. I've grown a 20oz single plant in my tent and I've grow as low as a single 13 oz plant, just comes down to genetics.

Your 315w is great for a 3x3 tent, so no issue on lighting. And yeah, give it another week or two. I always figure at least 10 weeks, not 8(altho you could be done in 8 if it's the right strain, or it could be 15+ weeks).

Thanks for the input...l forgot to mention a few things that I added higher up in the chain.

Thanks!!!

 

[Anon Emaus]

Sooooo...

Should I continue flushing Fire OG and Blue Dream or put them back on Nutes. Remember I am doing DWC so it isn't as long of a flush time...

Keep nutes going. No need to flush in DWC(plenty of people will argue against that though) because there is no salt build up in your medium due to your medium(water) being replaced often. Flushing will also starve your plants of nutrients they require at a critical point in their life, again soil is another story. If you do wish to flush I'd suggest waiting until you figure out the whole growing cycle and have a couple harvests under your belt so you know when you actually want to flush.

BTW, towards the end of your plants life you should be reducing the amounts of nutrients you're providing.

 

[Hydromantic]

Wouldn't you still need to flush at the end of their life cycle to clear all nutrients from the buds?

Also, with the updated photos, do you think fire of and blue dream are close to harvest?

 

[Hydromantic]

Keep nutes going. No need to flush in DWC(plenty of people will argue against that though) because there is no salt build up in your medium due to your medium(water) being replaced often. Flushing will also starve your plants of nutrients they require at a critical point in their life, again soil is another story. If you do wish to flush I'd suggest waiting until you figure out the whole growing cycle and have a couple harvests under your belt so you know when you actually want to flush.

BTW, towards the end of your plants life you should be reducing the amounts of nutrients you're providing.

i keep forgetting to send my messages as reply.... N00B

 

[OldMedUser]

With that dark green foliage and the evidence of nute burn I'd say the nitrogen has been way too high. That's why I went out and bought the AN 3 - part again. I was using Sensi for veg and Connie for flower and tho you can lower the overall ppm by using less of them you can't alter the NPK ratio without throwing everything else off balance. With the 3 - part you can run as Lucas formula after the stretch by dropping the Grow altogether and using half as much Micro as Bloom. Too much N inhibits flowering after the stretch and I pretty sure that had something to do with the smaller buds.

I also use Big Bud, Bud Ignitor, Rhino Skin and any old CalMag in small doses.

I like harvesting when the trichs are about 50/50, clear/cloudy and 90% or more of the hairs have gone red.

 

[OldMedUser]

I've grown a 20oz single plant in my tent and I've grow as low as a single 13 oz plant, just comes down to genetics.

20oz dry wt in a 3x3 tent? I'll take some of those seeds or the secret formula please and thank you very much. Even 13oz stretches the lines of credibility.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

I agree with @GroErr that the pic with the whole top with white hairs still has a good week to 10 days but I would only give fresh water to those plants for the last week. They have been way overfed and will get what they need from the medium and leaves now.

Nutrients don't "flush" out of buds. But they may taste harsh from the extra chlorophyll. And a good long dry and cure will go a long way to mellow it back out.

I like to harvest my plants with the leaves a nice medium healthy to lighter green. Sometimes easier said than done.

 

[Alaric]

Hey Guys,

So I am at Day 98 since Germination and 50 days into Flower. My buds are starting to show signs that they are getting close to harvest but the buds are so small! It was my first grow ever but I'm not sure what went wrong. Im thinking it may be that the light was under powered for the grow space. I also want to make sure I am not reading the harvest signs incorrectly.

Set-up:

(4) 5 gal buckets with two air stones in each bucket
(1) 315w CMH
3 x 3 x 7h Grow Tent
PH 5.5-6.0
PPM's currently 850
Air Temp is 70
Using AN nutes, currently Sensi Bloom, b-52 and Over drive
Distilled water

Im wondering if the plants went through a giant stretch and thats why the buds are so small or maybe its just the underpowered wattage, or I am harvesting too early, they also had some chemical burn.... Im at a loss to be honest.

I have been monitoring the Trichomes every day... They are currently 80 percent Cloudy.

I am going to be flushing using Flawless finish

Pictures:

First grow ever-----.

My first thought about "chemical burn" on the leaf tips and edges----nutes too strong----but 850 ppm---what conversion factor?

Suggestion:

Take sample buds at different stages of cloudy-----and find out for yourself which one you enjoy more.

I haven't ever run LED lights----but 315 watts 0f lighting sounds weak to me compared to a 600 watt hps---which is good for a 3 X 3 canopy. That is my guess to the reason for smaller buds----and you can't ever discount genetics.

As for flushing-----I run 1000 ppm (.7) from start to end for flowering and veg (after roots well established).

Several pics in my journal if interested.

A~~~

 

[Hydromantic]

First grow ever-----.

My first thought about "chemical burn" on the leaf tips and edges----nutes too strong----but 850 ppm---what conversion factor?

Suggestion:

Take sample buds at different stages of cloudy-----and find out for yourself which one you enjoy more.

I haven't ever run LED lights----but 315 watts 0f lighting sounds weak to me compared to a 600 watt hps---which is good for a 3 X 3 canopy. That is my guess to the reason for smaller buds----and you can't ever discount genetics.

As for flushing-----I run 1000 ppm (.7) from start to end for flowering and veg (after roots well established).

Several pics in my journal if interested.

A~~~

Im not converting from E.C. to PPM I am using a TDS meter that displays PPM's. I had the plants sitting around 980 PPM for a week or so while I was out of town, when i got back I checked the PPM's and had seen that they climbed to 1300 because they were drinking more water than Nutes... I ended up dropping down to 800 and they seemed to be much happier there. I have been contimplating upgrading to a 600w CMH for my future grows...

I think next time around I am going to do a single plant scrOG in the 3x3 so I can focus on just one plant to really try and dial her in.

What are your thoughts on the updated images I posted? Close to harvest? I feel like given the smaller bud size its a little harder to determine...

Might just be me..

 

[goldberg71b]

Im not converting from E.C. to PPM I am using a TDS meter that displays PPM's. I had the plants sitting around 980 PPM for a week or so while I was out of town, when i got back I checked the PPM's and had seen that they climbed to 1300 because they were drinking more water than Nutes... I ended up dropping down to 800 and they seemed to be much happier there. I have been contimplating upgrading to a 600w CMH for my future grows...

I think next time around I am going to do a single plant scrOG in the 3x3 so I can focus on just one plant to really try and dial her in.

What are your thoughts on the updated images I posted? Close to harvest? I feel like given the smaller bud size its a little harder to determine...

Might just be me..

PPM meters have 2 settings 500 and 700. The same number on both is 2 totally different things.