What do you DG's chanrge?

[GroErr]

I still have some concerns if 30-35w/sqft of LED will perform as well as 50w/sqft of HID...and the mountain of money to switch, I would have to change everything.

Yeah I get it, you could do it in steps to validate though and DIY kits are getting really easy, more or less assembly, some you have to build a frame, some provide them. Here's 300w of 3590's covering about 12 sq. ft. so more like ~25w/sq. ft. 30w/sq. ft. kills it with these, 1.5+ gpw with any decent strain. That's 4x plants all different strains.

 

[redi jedi]

Yeah I get it, you could do it in steps to validate though and DIY kits are getting really easy, more or less assembly, some you have to build a frame, some provide them. Here's 300w of 3590's covering about 12 sq. ft. so more like ~25w/sq. ft. 30w/sq. ft. kills it with these, 1.5+ gpw with any decent strain. That's 4x plants all different strains.

View attachment 3808068

What kind of temps? Cooling? and if you dont mind my asking, how much were the lights? I know you bought ready to go.

 

[redi jedi]

If anything, I would convert my veg room first. Im running 2kw of MH in there.

 

[GroErr]

What kind of temps? Cooling? and if you dont mind my asking, how much were the lights? I know you bought ready to go.

I went from CMH which is already cool and temps were getting out of hand the last couple of weeks because it's in between season (I depend on my HVAC for heat in winter/Air in summer, but when neither is kicking in temps can be a bitch. So the last couple of weeks I'm just running the COBs and temps dropped by 10F from 88F to 78F at the worst time of year for me. Huge difference.

I grabbed the Tasty LED lights but went with the most expensive option 1.4A drivers for both the efficiency and to keep temps down so I can eventually run more wattage in the same space without worrying about heat. They ran ~$3.50/watt but that can come down for multiple fixtures and if you go with higher amp drivers, like the 2.1A drivers would give you ~150w for the price of 100w at 1.4A. Even the 2.1A drivers would still be cooler than my CMH which is cooler than hps/MH. I think you can get down into $2/$2.50/watt if you DIY and go with 2.1A for 3590's. Not cheap, but also no on-going costs associated with the lights once they're paid for. I look at it like pay me now or pay me later, I'd rather pay for the COBs than keep feeding Wynne/Hydro $#%! 600w of 3590's will easily outdo 1000w of HPS/MH. The quality is what sold me on them though, like growing a new strain by just changing the lights.

 

[GroErr]

If anything, I would convert my veg room first. Im running 2kw of MH in there.

For veg I just run those blurple panels (MARS, VIPAR and the like) at 25w/sq. ft., I've had several of them for 3+ years with no issues, they're cheap and very effective for vegging.

 

[redi jedi]

Ya I wouldnt swap my MH for blurples. So it would be COB's or nothing.

 

[GreenSanta]

Ya I wouldnt swap my MH for blurples. So it would be COB's or nothing.

I don't know if it's because people are used to HPS or just because of the strains I grow (have grown the full catalog of hybrids lol) but my plants generally triple in size or more after I put them in flower so I really don't need strong veg lights, just enough to keep em alive, I use 400 watts and t5s, only because I can't afford or justify buying COBS 3590 5000k for the veg room. I spent enough for the flower room over the years. The flower room is mix of old LEDs, cobs Vero 29 and cxb 3590. I think I like the 3500k the best, had good results mixing 3000k and 4000k. But yeah a few years from now I will buy COBs LEDs for the veggie

 

[jayjay777]

I get what people say about cheap veg light like t5 or cobs but my best results always come from MH. The nodes are not only so much tighter but there's twice as many bud sites.

Your minimum allowable price per unit to stay in business is controlled by your yeild weather your working for charity or trying to make your first million. Some things never change. Yeild is king. More roots, more fruits. Same goes for foilage.

So genetics, environment, time n love.

I could never see myself going below 2000 and that only happens when there's something wrong. I've heard of people doing them for 1500. I'm currently at 2400 and out of stock. Always.

$1g? WTF?

 

[gb123]

if you cant grow for under a dollar a gram,, you are wasting your time...

simply put!

 

[jayjay777]

When you say dollar a Gram do you mean every expense to final product right?

( all overhead like electric nutes filters bulbs labor ECT)

?

 

[Pulpit_]

Ya I wouldnt swap my MH for blurples. So it would be COB's or nothing.

I would suggest Timber Grow lights, plug and play, if you're buying Qty you can ask Dan for a discount, he also shipped it for free to Ontario ( I bought a 1000 watts) . I paid around 2.40 a watt cdn funds delivered.

 

[redi jedi]

At

I would suggest Timber Grow lights, plug and play, if you're buying Qty you can ask Dan for a discount, he also shipped it for free to Ontario ( I bought a 1000 watts) . I paid around 2.40 a watt cdn funds delivered.

At $2.40/w it would cost me $38 400 to replace my flower rooms HID, not including any electrical modifications. My current lighting cost about $6000....

 

[Pulpit_]

At

At $2.40/w it would cost me $38 400 to replace my flower rooms HID, not including any electrical modifications. My current lighting cost about $6000....

So you're running 16,000 watts of HID ? If so probably not a viable option using COB's although you would probably only need 10,000 watts of COB's. I would expect you to pay way under 2.00 a watt for that qty. DIY would probably be way cheaper as you can get discounts on volume. I think the cxb 3590 are around 32.00 ea now plus heat sinks and drivers.

 

[redi jedi]

So you're running 16,000 watts of HID ? If so probably not a viable option using COB's although you would probably only need 10,000 watts of COB's. I would expect you to pay way under 2.00 a watt for that qty. DIY would probably be way cheaper as you can get discounts on volume. I think the cxb 3590 are around 32.00 ea now plus heat sinks and drivers.

Thats true...could cut the wattage in half with cobs.

 

[itsmehigh]

Thats true...could cut the wattage in half with cobs.

Don't do it......you will regret it. LED's are best suited for growing cannabis on the space shuttle.

Itsme.

 

[GroErr]

Don't do it......you will regret it. LED's are best suited for growing cannabis on the space shuttle.

Itsme.

Yeah they're horrible, thinking of switching to incandescent bulbs next after getting nothing off these LED's...

 

[itsmehigh]

Yeah they;'re horrible, thinking of switching to incandescent bulbs next after getting nothing off these LED's...

View attachment 3902609 View attachment 3902610

Don't get me wrong, I have seen some impressive results from closet LED grows. But to spend $25k-$30k to replace HID's is not worth it IMO. Looks good GroErr. LED's have their application, but their initial capital cost makes them prohibitive for most who grow for production.

Itsme.

 

[GroErr]

Don't get me wrong, I have seen some impressive results from closet LED grows. But to spend $25k-$30k to replace HID's is not worth it IMO. Looks good GroErr. LED's have their application, but their initial capital cost makes them prohibitive for most who grow for production.

Itsme.

They out-perform any form of hid/hps from a production standpoint watt-for-watt, just a higher up-front cost. It depends on how you look at it. Smaller grows are easier to get into from a capital standpoint, like I'm only running 600w over 3.5 x 7' or so. But the same logic applies to larger ops.

If I were starting up a large op I'd still go with the COBs or newer QB boards after seeing what they can do. That run I posted above pulled ~1.3 gpw with 9 strains/12 phenos/13 plants in 1, 2 & 3 gal pots. Not exactly a setup for yield. If I were to take my better producers and fill that same footprint I'd be hitting 1.7-1.9 gpw easy at 30w/sq./ft. HID or hps can't touch those numbers at that wattage, many are running 50+w/sq./ft.

So if you take the reduced wattage at say 60%, then factor in lower costs to manage the environment, the payback is there in a few runs, everything after that is gravy. If you had the cash to swap watt-for-watt, the same payback applies, just in increased production vs. operational savings, even faster payback.

My main driver is quality and I haven't seen or smoked anything close to the quality I'm getting now with any form of hid/hps, or even CMH which I ran for the last couple of years. Cheers.

 

[itsmehigh]

I'm not disputing that they work well in some instances. From my experience in LED's you get what you pay for, there are so many LED companies pushing their product as the best on the market. No question HID is old tech. But it's cheap and proven tech. The new double ended fixtures @$.36 per watt vs $2.00 per watt start up cost for LED is a hard pill to swallow for basically the same end product. The way technologies are progressing chances are that a $2000 LED fixture that you buy today will be obsolete in a couple years. If your willing to spend 5-6 times the money to save a couple bucks that will take a couple years to recover only to have obsolete gear in the end, that's a choice that needs to be examined. Not dissing LED's as they have their place, but for an existing grower that's already set up, it doesn't make sense to spend 10's of thousands $$$ to achieve what they are already accomplishing with HID.

Itsme.

 

[itsmehigh]

Here is an example of a clients project I'm working on right now. A simple 6 light room, air in air out, far from a perfect room. 6 Gavita style 1000w hid. Cost $360 per unit plus exhaust fan $200. Costs approx. $30. Per month per fixture in hydro. Total cost under $2500 for set up and under $200 per month hydro. For quality LEDs start up cost would be approx $12000 and cost $140 per month in hydro. A savings of $60 per month. To recoup the additional $9500 cost for LED it would take 158 months to get your money back. 13 years.

Itsme.