Hermies, most have no idea!!!

[MichiganMedGrower]

One theory goes that...

'The hermie trait is independant of sexual genetics and thus relies on a seperate protein hard wired into every plant and impossible to breed out.'

This is how I thought it was.

 

[Kingrow1]

This is how I thought it was.

Ergo it cannot be bred out or changed, any increase in the expression will be more down to abiotic stress not genetics. There is technically no such thing as a hermie as the resultant plant is still XX female and not hermaphrodite. Hermie seeds dont lead to an increase in future generations and so forth.....

Most of this seems very close to what we see in reality, what do i know though as this is just a theory and i have seen nothing on the subject in a while which leads me to think there have been no new developments.

 

[Odin*]

... and then the next thing to consider is "extremes". If it is embedded within their genes, then a females expression of male pollen sacks must have triggers/queues. Since "no two plants are created equal", we can justifiably assume that some plants will have an extremely high/unachievable "threshold" to such expression, and that others will without inhibition. The extremes, and everything that falls between.

 

[Dr. Who]

One theory goes that...

'The hermie trait is independant of sexual genetics and thus relies on a seperate protein hard wired into every plant and impossible to breed out.'

Came to believe this theory.....Like an amino acid activating a "recessed trait".....
At least that's how I envision it....

The "theory" is based on my inadvertent "discovery" that led to the "expirements", which confirms that my method of identifying "hermies" in veg is accurate, reliable, and repeatable.

The "theory" is irrelevant here. Regardless of whether or not my "theory" is correct, the method for "exposing" plants that will produce nuts and/or "banana fingers" within the bud has proven to produce the same results on the known "hermies" time, and time again (3 test runs so far).

I've got a decent number of packs to pop, more on the way. If this proves true beyond La Plata, Karma, and Krockett, I'll share with those I "know" (who ask) via PM.

I'll also drop this here now to aid in validity (when I verify further and share via PM); I have posted a vague reference to this prior (with pic). That post/pic will be referenced in the PM. It's worthless without method (unless one has inadvertently done the same and recognizes it).

This intensely interesting!

 

[Kingrow1]

Came to believe this theory.....Like an amino acid activating a "recessed trait".....
At least that's how I envision it....



This intensely interesting!

Yes somthing like that, i hate to go much futher with it and it has a cretain simplicity that explains the randomness we see as well as the inability to breed or change it.

 

[Dr. Who]

Yes somthing like that, i hate to go much futher with it and it has a cretain simplicity that explains the randomness we see as well as the inability to breed or change it.

I was looking into the "recessed" trait thing and the role of Amino's in expression of.
On google scholar, You get a shit ton of papers about "mutation's." They are pretty good for what I was looking to study up on. They call that expression of those recessed traits as "mutations."

Being that we basically know that all cannabis can "herm." I don't "see" that as a "mutation." Yet I believe your quite correct to point to proteins/amino's being produced by the plant, in amounts/types (not determined?) that will, as you say, through stress (multiple types at once any given time in bloom) cause this inherent ability to surface.

Now Odin comes in with some real interesting observations that may hold some clues to answers on several levels!

I did join the PM ring on that...

Very interesting thread King!

 

[Odin*]

Forgot that Ken's Kush was included in "Round 1" tests. Both threw late term bananas, both "Failed" testing. These were freebies, 2 of 3 were female, both gave it away in veg. So, add that to the list, 5 of 5.

Not sure that it provides "answers" (@Dr. Who ), but it is certainly valuable to large ops that want to "experiment" with beans sans incidental pollination.

 

[Dr. Who]

Forgot that Ken's Kush was included in "Round 1" tests. Both threw late term bananas, both "Failed" testing. These were freebies, 2 of 3 were female, both gave it away in veg. So, add that to the list, 5 of 5.

Not sure that it provides "answers" (@Dr. Who ), but it is certainly valuable to large ops that want to "experiment" with beans sans incidental pollination.

Thank you!

 

[Kingrow1]

I was looking into the "recessed" trait thing and the role of Amino's in expression of.
On google scholar, You get a shit ton of papers about "mutation's." They are pretty good for what I was looking to study up on. They call that expression of those recessed traits as "mutations."

Being that we basically know that all cannabis can "herm." I don't "see" that as a "mutation." Yet I believe your quite correct to point to proteins/amino's being produced by the plant, in amounts/types (not determined?) that will, as you say, through stress (multiple types at once any given time in bloom) cause this inherent ability to surface.

Now Odin comes in with some real interesting observations that may hold some clues to answers on several levels!

I did join the PM ring on that...

Very interesting thread King!

I never look into it anymore, female dna can replicate male parts so all it needs is a trigger.

Its a lot more believable than the other theories but it is still theory as said protein/amino acid has yet to be found.

Im pretty sure a member here first pointed me in the direction of this theory a few years ago but i fail to remember.

 

[Budley Doright]

Does this apply to applied amino acids or naturally occurring?

 

[Dr. Who]

Does this apply to applied amino acids or naturally occurring?

Now your asking things better answered by your own research.

Many factors in the natural world. Result in changes to physical properties in living things....They can be so much. At this time, most of these effects of change are referred to as "mutations". The bulk of what I have been reading, generally have that term in the title.

At this time, we, as people, are simply scratching the surface of "how and what" makes these things happen... I feel that this is one of the next big frontier's of bio genetic science.....Like mapping the human genome. It's going to take time.

Learning to grow a plant as close to it's "potential" is in our hands now. Kinda simple really. That, will be the best we can do with our plant, for quite sometime yet.

"Why" is one of my favorite questions...that's what makes us look for answers...

 

[Kingrow1]

Now your asking things better answered by your own research.

Many factors in the natural world. Result in changes to physical properties in living things....They can be so much. At this time, most of these effects of change are referred to as "mutations". The bulk of what I have been reading, generally have that term in the title.

At this time, we, as people, are simply scratching the surface of "how and what" makes these things happen... I feel that this is one of the next big frontier's of bio genetic science.....Like mapping the human genome. It's going to take time.

Learning to grow a plant as close to it's "potential" is in our hands now. Kinda simple really. That, will be the best we can do with our plant, for quite sometime yet.

"Why" is one of my favorite questions...that's what makes us look for answers...

I wouldnt see the hermie thing as a mutation, its a hard wired fact like chlorophyll, if there were not the genetics to produce this amino acid i'd then term that the mutation.

 

[Budley Doright]

Now your asking things better answered by your own research.

Many factors in the natural world. Result in changes to physical properties in living things....They can be so much. At this time, most of these effects of change are referred to as "mutations". The bulk of what I have been reading, generally have that term in the title.

At this time, we, as people, are simply scratching the surface of "how and what" makes these things happen... I feel that this is one of the next big frontier's of bio genetic science.....Like mapping the human genome. It's going to take time.

Learning to grow a plant as close to it's "potential" is in our hands now. Kinda simple really. That, will be the best we can do with our plant, for quite sometime yet.

"Why" is one of my favorite questions...that's what makes us look for answers...

I was just asking re the talk of amino's being possibly responsible for the more likely to throw female pollen. My research, if I was to be as bold as to call it that lol. Would say the addition has no bearing but stresses do play a part. Four different runs indoor with the addition of amino acid and no change, no seeds, once outdoors, still with the addition of amino acid and seeds (not many). The plants had many stress's but who knows.

 

[goofy81]

All the seeded crops i have completed in the past turned out to give really good highs. One crop i had full of seeds, but after a sample some dude really wanted it !

I once read a post from a 40 year old smoker that the seeded buds gave a euphoric high and that being pollinated, caused the plant to complete some chemical processes which made the high different. A few people concurred, it might have been on ICMAG, can't remember.
On a totally separate incident, i was talking to some 50 year old SE asian dude about weed. He told me back in the days in his country they would find the ones with seeds and when they smoked it, it would feel like they're floating on clouds!

Are there any truths to seeded/pollinated bud being a better high??

 

[whitebb2727]

All the seeded crops i have completed in the past turned out to give really good highs. One crop i had full of seeds, but after a sample some dude really wanted it !

I once read a post from a 40 year old smoker that the seeded buds gave a euphoric high and that being pollinated, caused the plant to complete some chemical processes which made the high different. A few people concurred, it might have been on ICMAG, can't remember.
On a totally separate incident, i was talking to some 50 year old SE asian dude about weed. He told me back in the days in his country they would find the ones with seeds and when they smoked it, it would feel like they're floating on clouds!

Are there any truths to seeded/pollinated bud being a better high??

Seeded pot produces cannabinoids that unseeded doesn't.

 

[goldberg71b]

"Weak genetics" (not that the "lineage" is weak, but that the particular plant fell into the "shallow" end of the gene pool), "hermaphrodite", call it what you want, but I did inadvertently stumble upon a way to identify vegging females that will grow nuts and/or spit 'nanner fingers in bloom. It first came to me when I witnessed the phenomenon in La Plata's "Durango OG" (DGOG). I tested my "theory" again on clones taken from the remaining DGOG's, again only expressed in the known "banana tosser" (kept clones of it for this very reason). Later tested on all vegging clones from strains where 1 of them grew nuts and/or spat fingers. Again, only the "banana tosser" from those respective strains exhibited this "unusual" trait in veg (1 "Sour Sunset" from Krockett and 1 "Sour Power" from Karma"). It's a very pronounce tell, can't be missed, or confused. Every strain in that "garden" (~30) was subjected to the "tests" at the same time. That includes 10 different phenos/crosses of Animal Cookies, all of my "clone only" (including "Mystery", she's a finicky gal, real picky, but she passed the test), and TSD 2.0 from TopDawg.

It isn't expressed through exposure to stress, per se, more of an "optical illusion".

Anyhow, the fact that I can definitively identify vegging plants that will go on to throw bananas in bloom tells me that this is genetic.

I'm interested! If there's a loop please include me in it.

 

[Kingrow1]

I was just asking re the talk of amino's being possibly responsible for the more likely to throw female pollen. My research, if I was to be as bold as to call it that lol. Would say the addition has no bearing but stresses do play a part. Four different runs indoor with the addition of amino acid and no change, no seeds, once outdoors, still with the addition of amino acid and seeds (not many). The plants had many stress's but who knows.

The amino acid in question is probably wrapped up in a complex genetic process, its not somthing you could give to a plant or even buy.

Where the theory hits a dead end is when they looked and tried to identify this protein, they concluded that either they werent looking in the right place or that it was so small they couldnt see it.....

and then it all drops of into forum myth, debate etc etc. Suffice to say it may be somthing completly opposite that causes hermies, we just dont know yet...

 

[Nugachino]

Hmmm. This post is rather interesting. I'll admit I didn't read all 3 pages. But, having come across my first plant to begin growing buds then balls. I was unsure if what to do with it.

"Kill it" isn't my normal response. Neither is it if I find a male. Instead. I'd rather see what comes from them going about their business. Or select those that show traits I seek. Rather than just anything goes.

I'm a little curious though. If I do wish for a female plant to self seed. How much of its buds should I be looking at leaving on. Or does it only work with whole plants?

And is there a defined amount of time to leave it before it will self pollinate?
Or do I just let it keep going til it's keeled over?

 

[Dr. Who]

I was just asking re the talk of amino's being possibly responsible for the more likely to throw female pollen. My research, if I was to be as bold as to call it that lol. Would say the addition has no bearing but stresses do play a part. Four different runs indoor with the addition of amino acid and no change, no seeds, once outdoors, still with the addition of amino acid and seeds (not many). The plants had many stress's but who knows.

I was at first kind of amused by the question... So I answered that way.....I should have answered -

After all,,,,,STS, colloidal silver, etc.........

How about a true mutation? Colchicine does what?

PGR's do what?

Were only scratching the surface.

 

[BuD_DizZLe]

According to the research I just did on my latest seed purchase from Cali-Connection, The amino acid in question is known as the "Swerve" gene.