Should Scotland join Canada?

vostok

Well-Known Member
As Scotland pushes for a second referendum on independence,

one man is asking the previously unthinkable

- if you're going quit the UK, why not join Canada?

Canadian writer Ken McGoogan says the unorthodox alliance makes sense.

"I think it would be terrific for both Scotland and Canada," he says.

McGoogan first laid out his proposal in an opinion piece published in Canadian newspaper the Globe

and Mail, where he argued that advancements in telecommunication technology

and transatlantic travel have rendered pesky things like geographical boundaries "irrelevant".

Besides, he points out, Scotland is closer to Newfoundland than Hawaii is to California.

Last week, the Scottish Parliament voted in favour of asking the UK government

to allow a legally-binding referendum on independence.

Prime Minister Theresa May has said the vote should wait until after Brexit.


Ken McGoogan thinks Scotland should become Canada's 11th province

Mr McGoogan says he sympathises with the angst that many Scots

are feeling over Britain's decision to leave the EU.

"The Scots aren't happy right now, and I don't think they're being treated especially well."

Mr McGoogan says that if Scotland were to join Canada, it would enjoy a lot more independence

and hold a lot more power than it currently does with Great Britain.

Scotland would be Canada's third largest province, with 5.3 million people,

which would give it significant political sway. Add to that the millions of Canadians who,

like Mr McGoogan, have Scottish ancestry, and you'd have a national-ethnic bloc about 10m strong,

he reasons.

More importantly, Canadian provinces are in charge of more aspects of governance than Scotland has

been afforded as part of the UK.

Canadian provinces are in charge of their own courts, health-care, systems and educational institutions.

Some provinces also have their own immigration programmes, a fact that has already piqued the interest

of a number of British and Scottish MPs.

It's not clear what Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon makes of the idea

Brexit "would never happen in Canada," Mr McGoogan argues, without the permission of all the provinces.

But the arrangement wouldn't only benefit Scotland, he argues. By making Scotland Canada's 11th province,

Canada would gain a foothold in Europe. Far from abandoning any future Scottish bid for the EU,

Mr McGoogan argues that Scotland could apply to join with Canada.

Mr McGoogan's ideas may shock some, and would certainly require years of back-and-forth

negotiations with both Scotland and the UK, he readily admits.

"This is a flight of fancy," he said. "In an ideal world, this might work really well."

As the author of How the Scots Invented Canada and Celtic Lightning,

Mr McGoogan has made a career of understanding the historic ties that bind Scotland and Canada.

Scotland had a "major, major hand" in creating the political culture in Canada,

he says, as well as its educational and banking institutions.

More than half of Canada's prime ministers have claimed Scottish heritage,

as did many other prominent figures such as Simon Fraser and James McGill.

"The Scots have left their fingerprints all over this country," he says.

(http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39510351)
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
An independent Scotland would be able to chart its own course.

If Brexit chafes that much, I think they've every right to step up to Independence.

Then again, I'm over half Scot- so I may be biased.
 

SunnyJim

Well-Known Member
So to clarify, Scottish supporters of IndyRef2 want complete sovereignty from the rest of Great Britain, only to become an 'autonomous' province of another country? Makes perfect sense to me.

To anyone living in Scotland, OPs linked article is an absolute nonsense piece (sorry about that). For starters, the majority of IndyRef 'Yes' voters are staunch nationalists - an ideology in complete conflict with the suggestion of becoming a province of any other sovereign nation [post-independence from the UK]. It dismisses the premise of the IndyRef in the first place, showing a lack of appreciation of the political zeitgeist on the ground here.


p.s. a post in Politics... what am I doing?
 

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
So to clarify, Scottish supporters of IndyRef2 want complete sovereignty from the rest of Great Britain, only to become an 'autonomous' province of another country? Makes perfect sense to me.

To anyone living in Scotland, OPs linked article is an absolute nonsense piece (sorry about that). For starters, the majority of IndyRef 'Yes' voters are staunch nationalists - an ideology in complete conflict with the suggestion of becoming a province of any other sovereign nation [post-independence from the UK]. It dismisses the premise of the IndyRef in the first place, showing a lack of appreciation of the political zeitgeist on the ground here.


p.s. a post in Politics... what am I doing?

I gave you a 'like' for the PS..welcome RIU political bottom feeder to the inner sanctum!
 

Unclebaldrick

Well-Known Member
So to clarify, Scottish supporters of IndyRef2 want complete sovereignty from the rest of Great Britain, only to become an 'autonomous' province of another country? Makes perfect sense to me.

To anyone living in Scotland, OPs linked article is an absolute nonsense piece (sorry about that). For starters, the majority of IndyRef 'Yes' voters are staunch nationalists - an ideology in complete conflict with the suggestion of becoming a province of any other sovereign nation [post-independence from the UK]. It dismisses the premise of the IndyRef in the first place, showing a lack of appreciation of the political zeitgeist on the ground here.


p.s. a post in Politics... what am I doing?
You missed me?
 

Rizlared

Well-Known Member
Should Scotland join Canada?.....No

Should they become independent from the UK?....That's up to them

Last time they were asked they said "no"

Other regions of the UK also, predominantly, voted in favour of remaining within the EU, such as Liverpool.

Should we give the good people of Liverpool an independence referendum?

That isn't as flippant as it may sound...being from there, i can appreciate exactly how the Scots must feel being controlled by cunts in Westminster
 

SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
So to clarify, Scottish supporters of IndyRef2 want complete sovereignty from the rest of Great Britain, only to become an 'autonomous' province of another country? Makes perfect sense to me.

To anyone living in Scotland, OPs linked article is an absolute nonsense piece (sorry about that). For starters, the majority of IndyRef 'Yes' voters are staunch nationalists - an ideology in complete conflict with the suggestion of becoming a province of any other sovereign nation [post-independence from the UK]. It dismisses the premise of the IndyRef in the first place, showing a lack of appreciation of the political zeitgeist on the ground here.


p.s. a post in Politics... what am I doing?
Lol, Scotland wants independence because Brexit is being forced on them, has little to do with Nationalism.

You'll also note to support this we have the first referendum's failure to pass.
 

SunnyJim

Well-Known Member
Lol, Scotland wants independence because Brexit is being forced on them, has little to do with Nationalism.

You'll also note to support this we have the first referendum's failure to pass.
I'm not sure I follow your logic.

The first IndyRef was held before the Brexit vote and consisted of one simple question: "Should Scotland be independent from the UK?" No allusion to the EU.. Further, an independent Scotland would not receive immediate admission to the EU as a member state. The application process, assuming approval from all 27 other members (UK no longer included), would take years and there is no guarantee of success.

Scottish independence is, and always has been at the top of the governing party's (the Scottish National Party) manifesto.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
When a slave moves from a large plantation to a smaller plantation, it doesn't mean he has gained freedom.

Freedoms essence requires choice of individuals, absent the omnipresent false dichotomies of shifting from forcible collective to another.

Panarchy!!
 

SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure I follow your logic.

The first IndyRef was held before the Brexit vote and consisted of one simple question: "Should Scotland be independent from the UK?" No allusion to the EU.. Further, an independent Scotland would not receive immediate admission to the EU as a member state. The application process, assuming approval from all 27 other members (UK no longer included), would take years and there is no guarantee of success.

Scottish independence is, and always has been at the top of the governing party's (the Scottish National Party) manifesto.
I mean that nationalism isn't the key driving force behind it, economics and a toothless devolved Govt is.

An Independent Scotland would be a small country of about 5 million, you really think they'd want to do it alone?

Plus the Canada idea isnt that far fetched, it would mean Scotland could leave the UK but still be remain part of the Commonwealth to appease the Unionists.
 

SunnyJim

Well-Known Member
I mean that nationalism isn't the key driving force behind it, economics and a toothless devolved Govt is.

An Independent Scotland would be a small country of about 5 million, you really think they'd want to do it alone?

Plus the Canada idea isnt that far fetched, it would mean Scotland could leave the UK but still be remain part of the Commonwealth to appease the Unionists.
I'm afraid I disagree.

Of course the 'Yes' voters want to go it alone (however foolhardy), that's the point of independence. Unless I'm missing something?

The IndyRef had very little to do with economics (UK government public spending higher in Scotland per head than in the rest of the UK), and much more to do with self-governance (much like Brexit). This leads to your second point - leaving the Commonwealth to join the Commonwealth seems completely contradictory given the Scottish National Party's manifesto. I don't think I've heard any SNP political propaganda in support of such a move. Their whole 'raison d'être' is to deliver complete sovereignty, although they're trying to use the Brexit result as a platform on which to deliver it: "If we leave the UK, we can rejoin the EU."

If an independent Scotland (however unlikely) requests membership to any union, it will be the EU imo, which doesn't make much sense either; trading Westminster for Brussels..
 

SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
I'm afraid I disagree.

Of course the 'Yes' voters want to go it alone (however foolhardy), that's the point of independence. Unless I'm missing something?

The IndyRef had very little to do with economics (UK government public spending higher in Scotland per head than in the rest of the UK), and much more to do with self-governance (much like Brexit). This leads to your second point - leaving the Commonwealth to join the Commonwealth seems completely contradictory given the Scottish National Party's manifesto. I don't think I've heard any SNP political propaganda in support of such a move. Their whole 'raison d'être' is to deliver complete sovereignty, although they're trying to use the Brexit result as a platform on which to deliver it: "If we leave the UK, we can rejoin the EU."

If an independent Scotland (however unlikely) requests membership to any union, it will be the EU imo, which doesn't make much sense either; trading Westminster for Brussels..
By the same logic that an independent Scotland wants to immediately apply for EU membership, they can't actually do it fully alone, you'd have Scottish refugees trying to get into Syria...
 

SunnyJim

Well-Known Member
By the same logic that an independent Scotland wants to immediately apply for EU membership, they can't actually do it fully alone, you'd have Scottish refugees trying to get into Syria...
I'm sorry, I don't fully understand the statement. Is the point you're making that Scottish refugees would flee to Syria in order to sneak back into Europe? The journey from Scotland to the Republic of Ireland not fraught with quite so many hazards.. Plus most Scots would burn something fierce under the hot Mediterranean sun.
 
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