Never let the soil dry out completely?

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
I let young plants dry out completely, but once they are in flower, the medium should always stay moist.
I like to let the pots dry out 3/4 way down the pot from seed to harvest. I have only ever wilted 1 plant and it took 2 more days from there.

And when I watered the 10 week wilted flower. It came back to life and only did not reconstitute the lowest leaves.

She harvested frosty and potent.
 

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
I can't find a citation to support my belief but I think that changes in soil moisture affect soil pH. Since mineral availability is enhanced at different values I think it is likely advantageous to do wet/less wet. I agree that a dry pot is not going to support vibrant soil biology.
My grow is in natural potting mix and I use a natural 1 part nute to supplement. And I let the pots dry out almost to the bottom every watering as I stated below.

My plants stay pretty much green all the way to harvest.

My soils biology must be functioning fine in much drier pots than most are saying here.
 

Rrog

Well-Known Member
It is all a balance - yes indeed

For this reason I like to constant drip to hit a specific soil moisture level and stay there. I used to use blumats and a soil tensiometer. Next step is to use the soil tensiometer to control the drop. Basically same tech as blumat but automated - no runoff - more accurate - measurable.
 

Heil Tweetler

Well-Known Member
I'm not seeing a rationale for pH shifting as a function of soil hydration Maybe you'll have luck in your research
It's well established that identical soils with different moisture levels will have varying pH.
The item I'm not finding is a citation for pH shifts in containers with regard to wet dry cycles.

Biologically it seems that many plants and most soil biology would have evolved, for the most part, to exploit the dynamics of wet/dry since steady state soil moisture would be uncommon.
~~~~~~~~~


http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2211&context=usdaarsfacpub


Nutrient Cycling in Agroecosystems


The effect of soil moisture on mineral nitrogen, soil electrical conductivity,
and pH

Inorganic nitrogen in the soil is the source of N for non-legume plants. Rapid methods for monitoring changes
in inorganic N concentrations would be helpful for N nutrient management. The effect of varying soil moisture
content on soil mineral nitrogen, electrical conductivity (EC), and pH were studied in a laboratory experiment. Soil
NO3-N increased as soil water-filled pore space (WFPS) increased from 0 to 80 cm3 cm−3. At soil moisture levelsgreater than 80 cm 3cm−3,NO3-N concentration declined rapidly and NH4-N concentration increased, likely dueto anaerobic conditions existing at higher WFPS levels. Soil pH did not change as soil moisture increased from 100 g kg−1to 400 g kg−1 and increased from 6.2 to 6.6 at higher levels of soil moisture. Soil EC was correlated with soil mineral N concentration when measured in situ with a portable EC meter ( R2=0.85) or in the laboratory as 1:1 soil water slurries (R2=0.92). Results suggest that EC can be used to rapidly detect changes in soil inorganic N status in soils where salts and free carbonates are not present in large amounts



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SHORT-TERM EFFECTS OF MOISTURE CONTENT ON SOIL SOLUTION pH AND SOIL EH

Zárate-Valdez, José L.1; Zasoski, Robert J.2; Läuchli, André E.2


This laboratory study examined the short-term effects of soil moisture on the soil solution pH (pHss). Within minutes after adding water to dry soil, soil solution pH changed. As moisture increased, pH increased, whereas redox potential (Eh) decreased, and consequently, soil Eh and pHss were negatively correlated (r2 = 0.90). Soil pH and Eh changes in relation to moisture content fit sigmoidal curves well (r2 > 0.96). Altered pH and Eh response to moisture levels in chloroform treatments suggested that the observed pH changes were microbially mediated. We suggest that the rapid pH decrease observed in soil incubated at "field capacity" is due to proton generation associated with nitrification. Increased pH in saturated soils seems to be due to denitrification reactions. Addition of a nitrification inhibitor to soils resulted in smaller pH decreases. It seems that conditions conducive to denitrification occur at water contents much below saturation. In saturated Yolo silt loam, soil solution pH increased rapidly in the first 8 h and was nearly constant for the next 2 days. Proton consumption in saturated soils and proton production in soils maintained at field capacity fit as a power function very well. Based on the rapid changes in pHss in several agricultural soils, we conclude that soil pH as commonly measured (soil/water ratio 1:1-1 h of equilibration) may not reflect the pHss at longer time periods or be a good measure of soil pH in the field. The effects are especially pronounced in weakly buffered coarse textured soils.
 
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MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
It is all a balance - yes indeed

For this reason I like to constant drip to hit a specific soil moisture level and stay there. I used to use blumats and a soil tensiometer. Next step is to use the soil tensiometer to control the drop. Basically same tech as blumat but automated - no runoff - more accurate - measurable.
Yes! I get your reasoning. Your always in the zone that way. I had not considered drip when I answered.
 

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
It's well established that identical soils with different moisture levels will have varying pH.
The item I'm not finding is a citation for pH shifts in containers with regard to wet dry cycles.

Biologically it seems that many plants and most soil biology would have evolved, for the most part, to exploit the dynamics of wet/dry since steady state soil moisture would be uncommon.
~~~~~~~~~


http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2211&context=usdaarsfacpub


Nutrient Cycling in Agroecosystems


The effect of soil moisture on mineral nitrogen, soil electrical conductivity,
and pH

Inorganic nitrogen in the soil is the source of N for non-legume plants. Rapid methods for monitoring changes
in inorganic N concentrations would be helpful for N nutrient management. The effect of varying soil moisture
content on soil mineral nitrogen, electrical conductivity (EC), and pH were studied in a laboratory experiment. Soil
NO3-N increased as soil water-filled pore space (WFPS) increased from 0 to 80 cm3 cm−3. At soil moisture levelsgreater than 80 cm 3cm−3,NO3-N concentration declined rapidly and NH4-N concentration increased, likely dueto anaerobic conditions existing at higher WFPS levels. Soil pH did not change as soil moisture increased from 100 g kg−1to 400 g kg−1 and increased from 6.2 to 6.6 at higher levels of soil moisture. Soil EC was correlated with soil mineral N concentration when measured in situ with a portable EC meter ( R2=0.85) or in the laboratory as 1:1 soil water slurries (R2=0.92). Results suggest that EC can be used to rapidly detect changes in soil inorganic N status in soils where salts and free carbonates are not present in large amounts



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SHORT-TERM EFFECTS OF MOISTURE CONTENT ON SOIL SOLUTION pH AND SOIL EH

Zárate-Valdez, José L.1; Zasoski, Robert J.2; Läuchli, André E.2


This laboratory study examined the short-term effects of soil moisture on the soil solution pH (pHss). Within minutes after adding water to dry soil, soil solution pH changed. As moisture increased, pH increased, whereas redox potential (Eh) decreased, and consequently, soil Eh and pHss were negatively correlated (r2 = 0.90). Soil pH and Eh changes in relation to moisture content fit sigmoidal curves well (r2 > 0.96). Altered pH and Eh response to moisture levels in chloroform treatments suggested that the observed pH changes were microbially mediated. We suggest that the rapid pH decrease observed in soil incubated at "field capacity" is due to proton generation associated with nitrification. Increased pH in saturated soils seems to be due to denitrification reactions. Addition of a nitrification inhibitor to soils resulted in smaller pH decreases. It seems that conditions conducive to denitrification occur at water contents much below saturation. In saturated Yolo silt loam, soil solution pH increased rapidly in the first 8 h and was nearly constant for the next 2 days. Proton consumption in saturated soils and proton production in soils maintained at field capacity fit as a power function very well. Based on the rapid changes in pHss in several agricultural soils, we conclude that soil pH as commonly measured (soil/water ratio 1:1-1 h of equilibration) may not reflect the pHss at longer time periods or be a good measure of soil pH in the field. The effects are especially pronounced in weakly buffered coarse textured soils.
This is interesting but container potting mix is different depending on how the grower uses it.

I said above. The nitrogen is the cause of the ph change as it breaks down. The article begins by explaining nitrogen conversion.
 

Budget Buds

Well-Known Member
Letting the soil dry out makes the roots grow to search for water , It will give you a better root system, Lots of times I will wait until they start to barely wilt before watering them , Never had an issue doing so but I only have vegging plants in soil , Anything that is flowering is in a hydro system .
 

Rrog

Well-Known Member
ph measurements and water seem to simply be an increase in the N. my view would be OK but I'm not seeing the relevance or revelation.

Back in the day during the very active blumat threads, most participants viewed constant moisture as an observational improvement. Maybe there's one or two out there who went back to wet /dry, but the vast majority of those who experienced dialed-in constant moisture soil would not go back to wet dry cycles. So there's that bit of anecdotal insight
 

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
ph measurements and water seem to simply be an increase in the N. my view would be OK but I'm not seeing the relevance or revelation.

Back in the day during the very active blumat threads, most participants viewed constant moisture as an observational improvement. Maybe there's one or two out there who went back to wet /dry, but the vast majority of those who experienced dialed-in constant moisture soil would not go back to wet dry cycles. So there's that bit of anecdotal insight
Isn't this method for salt based neutral peat or coco mix? Like greenhouses use?

I don't think I want a constant drip on my amended organic soil.
 

meangreengrowinmachine

Well-Known Member
i wish someone would have told me about Sub irrigated Planters when i first started... so easy no need to measure moisture or anything the soil wicks the water it needs and the plant gets all it needs not constant watering, no moving parts to fail. check it out and good luck!
 

bullSnot

Well-Known Member
i wish someone would have told me about Sub irrigated Planters when i first started... so easy no need to measure moisture or anything the soil wicks the water it needs and the plant gets all it needs not constant watering, no moving parts to fail. check it out and good luck!
When I feel it is too hard to learn when to water and spend 20 times the amount for a planter ...then I know it is time for me to stop smoking
 

Heil Tweetler

Well-Known Member
This is interesting but container potting mix is different depending on how the grower uses it.

I said above. The nitrogen is the cause of the ph change as it breaks down. The article begins by explaining nitrogen conversion.
OK but but it's still shifting the pH by a few orders of magnitude altering the mineral uptake dynamics, right?
 

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
OK but but it's still shifting the pH by a few orders of magnitude altering the mineral uptake dynamics, right?
Are you blaming ph for bad watering practices?

Why are you trying to prove this right?

I use well water on ocean forest and feed all through flower and never adjust ph. The oyster shell ( or lime if others) buffers the ph back to normal.

It's alkalinity that we need to concern ourselves with. My water comes out of the tap at 8.0 ph. But is only around 150 ppm.

So when I ad nutes the ph goes down. When I water the buffer neutralizes some of the acid and the plants eating causes the ph to rise back where we started.

There is a relationship between how our water, nutes and soil affect each other. Knowing how this works is very important.

If you are having uptake issues in soil mixes I bet ph adjustment doesn't do anything but make it worse.

Read about alkalinity and watering plants.

Only if your water is very hard should you have to add acid. If it's soft it doesn't affect soil ph at all.

Also. Ph problems in container gardening happen over time. From continually adding too hard water for instance. It's like adding lime every watering.

Too much ph down. Even worse for the roots.

I hope some of his helps.
 

Heil Tweetler

Well-Known Member
Are you blaming ph for bad watering practices?

Why are you trying to prove this right?

I use well water on ocean forest and feed all through flower and never adjust ph. The oyster shell ( or lime if others) buffers the ph back to normal.

It's alkalinity that we need to concern ourselves with. My water comes out of the tap at 8.0 ph. But is only around 150 ppm.

So when I ad nutes the ph goes down. When I water the buffer neutralizes some of the acid and the plants eating causes the ph to rise back where we started.

There is a relationship between how our water, nutes and soil affect each other. Knowing how this works is very important.

If you are having uptake issues in soil mixes I bet ph adjustment doesn't do anything but make it worse.

Read about alkalinity and watering plants.

Only if your water is very hard should you have to add acid. If it's soft it doesn't affect soil ph at all.

Also. Ph problems in container gardening happen over time. From continually adding too hard water for instance. It's like adding lime every watering.

Too much ph down. Even worse for the roots.

I hope some of his helps.
Bro,

I asked you a simple question, no need for melt down or a bumbling, confused and irrelevant rant.
 
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