Plants Herming out half way through flower

[MittenGreen]

We grown in a controlled indoor environment using Canna nutrients. Our last 4-5 cycles the plants look amazing for the first 6 weeks, then when we get close to finishing, (the last 3-4 weeks) they start to herm out. The buds look like they get long fingers, and when they finish they have what looks like, want to be seed pods. There aren't any seeds, but it looks like the flower tried to produce them.

This will probably be our last grow since we cannot figure out why this keeps happening and destroying our crops.

Temperature and humidity are right where they should be. We have co2 burning in the room as well.

 

[macsnax]

Grow a different strain. Long fingers? Foxtailing, light too close maybe.

 

[MittenGreen]

This has been happening with multiple strains.

Yes, foxtailing.

The lights are a couple of feet away from the plants.

My lights come on at 8pm est. Ill post some pics of the buds and the light distance.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

that sounds like a strain problem, like its the genetics of the strain you're running. have you been running the same breed? or different breeds and they've all been doing the same thing. same breed, its genetics, get a new breed. different breeds? then its something in your environment causing it, high temps, low rh, some kind of light stress during the dark period..... theres always a reason, start eliminating things it can't be, whats left is your list of possible causes.

 

[xmatox]

Right off the top there could be a few possibilities. One being the genetics. Sometimes the strains aren't as stable and foxtail. Two, I have seen it when you run co2 too long and with too high of ppm, prolonging ripening, and thus creating foxtails. Three, it could be user error, and stressing them out too much. How far away are your lights? What are your canopy temps? Foxtails aren't always bad, sometimes I see them on really high testing plants. Try posting a picture of them before you quit, you might just be alright. After readying your comment about it happening to multiple strains, it's probably co2 or user error.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

if your temps and rh are on point, my next guess would be a bad light leak during your dark period. sometimes timers malfunction, had one start coming on for 15 minutes in the middle of my night cycle, never guessed till i had to get up in the middle of the night to take a leak and saw it.

^ could be too much c02, you got a meter?

 

[xmatox]

Timer malfunction is a good one, got me on that once upon a time. I agree with Roger, you should start checking things off that you know are in check. Pics of the spot would help. What the temps/RH are at would help too.

 

[MittenGreen]

Since its happened with multiple strains, I will eliminate that one.

Lights are about 2 feet away from the canopy. Im not sure what the canopy temps are.
I have a CO2 meter, I will get the read on that once my lights come on. (I will post pics of the lights, canopy and meter)

Bad light leak during dark period is one I havent considered, Ill pop in the room and check that out right now.

xmatox - what do you mean by user error? also, when you say "I have seen it when you run co2 too long and with too high of ppm" the CO2 kicks on automatically, should this not be running through the whole flower cycle?

Also, thank you guys so much for this info.

 

[chemphlegm]

This has been happening with multiple strains.


My lights come on at 8pm est. .

what time do your lights go out?
what strains have failed you this way?

do you clone from a clone ?

 

[chemphlegm]

Since its happened with multiple strains, I will eliminate that one.

Lights are about 2 feet away from the canopy. Im not sure what the canopy temps are.
I have a CO2 meter, I will get the read on that once my lights come on. (I will post pics of the lights, canopy and meter)

Bad light leak during dark period is one I havent considered, Ill pop in the room and check that out right now.

xmatox - what do you mean by user error? also, when you say "I have seen it when you run co2 too long and with too high of ppm" the CO2 kicks on automatically, should this not be running through the whole flower cycle?

Also, thank you guys so much for this info.

not at lights off, and it should be metered during daytime. mine runs 12/12 like my plants. I've kept the ppm at 1500 for years with no issues, but find half of this is un needed maybe, so far so good in 2017

 

[MittenGreen]

what time do your lights go out? they go off at 8 am est.
what strains have failed you this way? several; dairy queen, grape stomper, sour diesel, purple og kush, platinum og, green crack. at the moment, blueberry headband

do you clone from a clone? a few of the strains were clones from mother plants

 

[xmatox]

Since its happened with multiple strains, I will eliminate that one.

Lights are about 2 feet away from the canopy. Im not sure what the canopy temps are.
I have a CO2 meter, I will get the read on that once my lights come on. (I will post pics of the lights, canopy and meter)

Bad light leak during dark period is one I havent considered, Ill pop in the room and check that out right now.

xmatox - what do you mean by user error? also, when you say "I have seen it when you run co2 too long and with too high of ppm" the CO2 kicks on automatically, should this not be running through the whole flower cycle?

Also, thank you guys so much for this info.

User error is just my vague way of saying you might have done something wrong i.e maybe lights are too close, or co2 issues. When you start gassing co2 into your room, most people put it on a controller and let it blast at 1500ppm all through flower. Co2 is suppose to be slowly decreased as the last weeks of flower start. The co2 can screw with the ethylene levels in the room, causing longer flowering times and possible stress because of it. You are "supposed" to vent your room for a few minutes a day, or exchange the air in the room. Even in a sealed room. Most don't do it, and it's not always a problem, but it is a reality.

 

[MittenGreen]

User error - got it, that makes sense. The CO2 is not being decreased at the end of the cycle. However, I do vent the room daily, I keep the doors open for a bit while I'm working on the plants for a couple of hours to get some air flow.

Im going to run with the light distance from the canopy and the CO2 errors. Thank you

 

[chemphlegm]

sealed room here no venting, c02 blasted 12/12 nary a ripening issue. whenever I see a ripening issue the room is not being augmented with c02. I suspect the ppm's have much to do with this. can you provide science links to the ppm's causing this issue?

thank you.

 

[xmatox]

User error - got it, that makes sense. The CO2 is not being decreased at the end of the cycle. However, I do vent the room daily, I keep the doors open for a bit while I'm working on the plants for a couple of hours to get some air flow.

Im going to run with the light distance from the canopy and the CO2 errors. Thank you

 

[xmatox]

sealed room here no venting, c02 blasted 12/12 nary a ripening issue. whenever I see a ripening issue the room is not being augmented with c02. I suspect the ppm's have much to do with this. can you provide science links to the ppm's causing this issue?

thank you.

Dr. Who has gone over it on RIU a few times. A simple door open for a few minutes a day is sufficient, so maybe you have been venting and not knowing it?
Fun Fact- Ethylene is where we get the saying, "One bad apple ruins the bunch".


https://www.maximumyield.com/bring-on-the-co2-in-your-indoor-garden/2/1434
https://www.rollitup.org/t/sealed-room-air-exchange-question.922117/page-2
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/oxygen-depletion-in-a-sealed-room.30467/page-3

If you are looking for scientific journals, i'm sure there could be some found in apple forums or similar.

 

[DemonTrich]

BS!!

A sealed room is just that, SEALED. Absolutely ZERO need to do any type of air exchange. Im.a sealed room.grower for 3 yrs. The only time I get any air exchange is when i go in amd out of my.room.and opening the door. 1200ppm co2 from flip to 2 weeks before cut. Then down to 500ppm.

Genetics or bad light leaks. But imo, genetics if happening for a few grows once a certain week hits.

 

[xmatox]

BS!!

A sealed room is just that, SEALED. Absolutely ZERO need to do any type of air exchange. Im.a sealed room.grower for 3 yrs. The only time I get any air exchange is when i go in amd out of my.room.and opening the door. 1200ppm co2 from flip to 2 weeks before cut. Then down to 500ppm.

Genetics or bad light leaks. But imo, genetics if happening for a few grows once a certain week hits.

I said the same thing until i researched it. To be fair, I mentioned this because it's typically seen more from burners in the room. If you haven't had it happen to you yet, doesn't mean it won't.

 

[Dr.Nick Riviera]

seems to be a common issue with sealed rooms running burners. not enough oxygen to make proper combustion?

also, calibrating monitor from time to time helps

 

[xmatox]

seems to be a common issue with sealed rooms running burners. not enough oxygen to make proper combustion?

I have heard the argument for the depletion of oxygen, but i'm not sure if thats the sole issue. The one that sticks to me is that co2 inhibits ethylene, causing ripening to be longer (time depending on level of ethylene). I myself have just learned about this in the last year, so I have been trying to compare harvest times and quality. I spoke to the local nursery and they said they exchange air a few times a day because of their burners. They said it also saves a little money from the dehumidifier not running as much.