SIP thread -- (Sub-Irrigated Planter)

[greg nr]

Ok, took the plunge. These are the garden box planters with build-a-soils kit nutrient soil.. The one with 2 plants are bodhi sunshine daydream and the other is bodhi gogi og. I just transplanted them into the boxen so they are still in recovery. I'm going to train and stabilize them for a week (or two) and flip them.

I'm only adding 2 gallons at a time to give the res a chance to get low before adding more. That should cut down on sprites growing down there.

I still haven't added a cover or any compost/castings to the top. Might just let it ride without for a bit.

What do people do? Cover with goodies on top or leave open air?

 

[meangreengrowinmachine]

SIP growers, I have an observation and I'm wondering if I'm imagining things or if others have seen this: I've noticed that with SIPs overall growth comes significantly more quickly, but at a cost -- it seems to me that my plants produce much more mass but that the branches are thinner and weaker. With some strains (in my small grow spaces) even after pretty severe trimming, the mass of quickly produced foliage forces me to flip to flower earlier than I would normally, leaving me with a younger less woody plant than I prefer to have.

With fabric pots I would veg for 6-8 weeks, trimming and shaping, and I would have a sturdy little bush with a strong woody main trunk when I went to 12/12. With SIPs forcing me to flip early, and the resulting thinner branches lead to smaller buds.

Anyone else notice this?

Afterthought... I've read a few people on RIU say that using COBs can speed things up also, so maybe this is a SIP/COB phenomenon?

Yes i notice this as well! In fact I'm dealing with some thin stems now and massive buds on the C99 strain and this one money maker pheno..I was on vacation for about 9 days (with 5 plants in flower and no moving parts and everything is still kicking just fine OMG I LOVE SIPS!!!!) and came back and wondered where my C99 plant went turns out the two main HUGE colas could not be supported by the stems and it fell into the other plant lol.. I have added some gardening wire to her now to hold up the colas... i think though that in my case this is more about a lack of wind early in there lives as well as yes.... 8 weeks of veg and WOW you have monsters... i was not ready for that ... and i topped 2 or 3 times and they still waaaay out grew my screens.... This last run was from seed so I really wanted to make sure I had mature plants before going into flower. Next run will be from clone so I will only be doing about 4 weeks of veg. Also I am only under a 600 W HPS atm (never could pull the trigger on the COBS but hopefully soon.)

 

[Humanrob]

Yes i notice this as well! In fact I'm dealing with some thin stems now and massive buds on the C99 strain and this one money maker pheno..I was on vacation for about 9 days (with 5 plants in flower and no moving parts and everything is still kicking just fine OMG I LOVE SIPS!!!!) and came back and wondered where my C99 plant went turns out the two main HUGE colas could not be supported by the stems and it fell into the other plant lol.. I have added some gardening wire to her now to hold up the colas... i think though that in my case this is more about a lack of wind early in there lives as well as yes.... 8 weeks of veg and WOW you have monsters... i was not ready for that ... and i topped 2 or 3 times and they still waaaay out grew my screens.... This last run was from seed so I really wanted to make sure I had mature plants before going into flower. Next run will be from clone so I will only be doing about 4 weeks of veg. Also I am only under a 600 W HPS atm (never could pull the trigger on the COBS but hopefully soon.)

I'm on my third indoor grow where I've used SIPs. I've used entirely different SIPs each time, ranging from 14 gallon bins inside 18 gallon, to two 3 gallon bins stacked. The first time I did not notice this issue, the last two times I have. I'm not sure what I did differently that might have impacted the type of growth. I would blame it on short veg times, but in a recent grow with regular fabric 2 gallon pots in soil I only vegged for 2.5 weeks and had thicker sturdier stems than I'm getting in these grows. Those plants were compact little trees, as opposed to these sprawling thin branched plants I seem to be growing in SIPs. Overall I prefer SIPs, I just wish I could get a handle on this.

Here are some pics of the current grow...
5/21, 5/26, 5/29 (flipped to 12/12 on 5/28 )


These plants spent 4 weeks in 1 gallon pots (too long, they were root bound), and then after only 10 days in the SIPs they filled the screen to the point where I had to flip. I'll keep training them through the first week or two of flower, or until I completely run out of room to spread them out, whichever comes first. These were from clones that had decent shapes, and I only topped them once to discourage the main branch from becoming dominant, they didn't need any topping after that. I've done a few passes of trimming small branches from the below the screen to discourage popcorn bud, but that's about all they've needed.

 

[Humanrob]

What do people do? Cover with goodies on top or leave open air?

I've done it both ways. At this point the only time I cover them is if I'm having a gnat problem, if you can get a decent seal on the cover it will disrupt their cycle and basically end them, in my experience.

 

[Tim Fox]

Yes i notice this as well! In fact I'm dealing with some thin stems now and massive buds on the C99 strain and this one money maker pheno..I was on vacation for about 9 days (with 5 plants in flower and no moving parts and everything is still kicking just fine OMG I LOVE SIPS!!!!) and came back and wondered where my C99 plant went turns out the two main HUGE colas could not be supported by the stems and it fell into the other plant lol.. I have added some gardening wire to her now to hold up the colas... i think though that in my case this is more about a lack of wind early in there lives as well as yes.... 8 weeks of veg and WOW you have monsters... i was not ready for that ... and i topped 2 or 3 times and they still waaaay out grew my screens.... This last run was from seed so I really wanted to make sure I had mature plants before going into flower. Next run will be from clone so I will only be doing about 4 weeks of veg. Also I am only under a 600 W HPS atm (never could pull the trigger on the COBS but hopefully soon.)

I really enjoy how the sips take care of the plants, with a big enough Res long vacations are not scary anymore, Hey @meangreengrowinmachine Join us in the land of COBS brother,, you wont regret it , and never look back,, several of us Sip growers are cobbers,

I'm on my third indoor grow where I've used SIPs. I've used entirely different SIPs each time, ranging from 14 gallon bins inside 18 gallon, to two 3 gallon bins stacked. The first time I did not notice this issue, the last two times I have. I'm not sure what I did differently that might have impacted the type of growth. I would blame it on short veg times, but in a recent grow with regular fabric 2 gallon pots in soil I only vegged for 2.5 weeks and had thicker sturdier stems than I'm getting in these grows. Those plants were compact little trees, as opposed to these sprawling thin branched plants I seem to be growing in SIPs. Overall I prefer SIPs, I just wish I could get a handle on this.

Here are some pics of the current grow...
5/21, 5/26, 5/29 (flipped to 12/12 on 5/28 )
View attachment 3951430 View attachment 3951429 View attachment 3951428

These plants spent 4 weeks in 1 gallon pots (too long, they were root bound), and then after only 10 days in the SIPs they filled the screen to the point where I had to flip. I'll keep training them through the first week or two of flower, or until I completely run out of room to spread them out, whichever comes first. These were from clones that had decent shapes, and I only topped them once to discourage the main branch from becoming dominant, they didn't need any topping after that. I've done a few passes of trimming small branches from the below the screen to discourage popcorn bud, but that's about all they've needed.

Hey Rob , super healthy plants , your filling that screen so well,,
on my last grow i had really thick trucks at the soil level, but i really over topped,, and had a bunch of tiny stems, i really didnt like it, i was really worried about the old PM, but green cure kept all signs of it away thankfully,, but next grow i dont want that, I kinda wonder about more plants and less topping,, i wonder how 4 plants would look in one earthbox?,,

 

[Humanrob]

Hey Rob , super healthy plants , your filling that screen so well,,
on my last grow i had really thick trucks at the soil level, but i really over topped,, and had a bunch of tiny stems, i really didnt like it, i was really worried about the old PM, but green cure kept all signs of it away thankfully,, but next grow i dont want that, I kinda wonder about more plants and less topping,, i wonder how 4 plants would look in one earthbox?,,

So far so good on this grow. I did notice some moisture collecting on some leaves, I'm having trouble controlling humidity in this grow space during the summer when its too hot to run the dehumidifier. I turned up the exhaust fan and I'll hit them again with GreenCure. I might also add a stronger internal fan. Didn't need the more intense air movement in a dry winter run, but I might need it now.

I think with 4 plants you'd need to do a 12/12 from seed type of grow, or if you used clones, maybe give them a week to put out some fresh roots and then flip them. That might be an experiment worth doing, I'm not sure how it would go.

 

[Humanrob]

I did a search on the strain I'm growing in my SIPs (Cannatonic), and found grow information about this strain from the company that developed it. (http://resinseeds.net/strains/cannatonic-grow-guide/)

One interesting thing (among many) that they say is:

• FLOODING: WATER FROM THE BOTTOM. DURING THIS FIRST WEEK OF 12 HOURS OF LIGHT IT IS SUGGESTED TO USE SMALL AMOUNTS OF WATER FOR FLOODING. IDEALLY YOU SHOULD FLOOD ONCE EVERY 2 DAYS, THIS ALSO AVOIDS PLANT STRETCHING.

What they are implying (if I'm understanding it correctly) is that too much access to water will cause the plant to stretch... SIPs are constant access to water. I don't think I've ever heard/read before that too much water contributes to stretching, but if its true that might be a factor in what I'm experiencing.

 

[Tim Fox]

I did a search on the strain I'm growing in my SIPs (Cannatonic), and found grow information about this strain from the company that developed it. (http://resinseeds.net/strains/cannatonic-grow-guide/)

One interesting thing (among many) that they say is:

• FLOODING: WATER FROM THE BOTTOM. DURING THIS FIRST WEEK OF 12 HOURS OF LIGHT IT IS SUGGESTED TO USE SMALL AMOUNTS OF WATER FOR FLOODING. IDEALLY YOU SHOULD FLOOD ONCE EVERY 2 DAYS, THIS ALSO AVOIDS PLANT STRETCHING.

What they are implying (if I'm understanding it correctly) is that too much access to water will cause the plant to stretch... SIPs are constant access to water. I don't think I've ever heard/read before that too much water contributes to stretching, but if its true that might be a factor in what I'm experiencing.

if this was something that occurs because of "too much access to water" then all the hydro and DWC would ditch thier systems,

 

[Humanrob]

if this was something that occurs because of "too much access to water" then all the hydro and DWC would ditch thier systems,

Good point.

 

[Photon Flinger]

Good point.

Nah, just means that the plant will use more resources for root growth than to stretch. If water is readily available it will do more above the medium.

Stretch is just fast plant growth and a sign that the plant is happy.

For those of you with thin stems, add in something with silica, I use glacial rock dust. Increase air flow as well to force the stems to bulk up.

Sips + promix + amendments and using alkaline tap water is a perfect combo. Haven't had to ph for a few months now. Res is kind of grungy but it does the trick and seems to be getting better the grungier it gets.

 

[PDX Joe]

Just came back from a one week vacation and things are fine. One plant is yellowing out quickly now and it looks close to harvest. I may chop it this weekend. The other plant needs a bit more time.

 

[Tim Fox]

Just came back from a one week vacation and things are fine. One plant is yellowing out quickly now and it looks close to harvest. I may chop it this weekend. The other plant needs a bit more time.View attachment 3952019

Fantastic,,, your yellowing plant looks allot like my Donkey Kong grow 2 years ago,, so nice,, you really filled your screen in nice,, Amazing job,, gotta love those sips and cobs

 

[meangreengrowinmachine]

@Tim Fox I can't wait to get some COBS just so spendy, I cant clear it with the wife as of yet lol

@Humanrob looking good man! and I think the thin steams might be a combo of issues, I know @Tim Fox has talked before about "sucker" branches with SIPS and I think trimming these will help focus on the main kolas, also @Photon Flinger has very good points as well.. silica and WIND lots and lots of WIND early on makes hearty thick steams... I know I am lacking in the wind dept at the moment... 5 SIPS in a approx 5x5 space... VERY crowded in there but wow this should be the best grow I have had yet.. not going back from SIPs ever!

@PDX Joe looking good but I bet if you left them a bit they would bulk up (-; and isn't being able to go away and not worry about your plants GREAT!!!!??

I'll post some pics of my girls tomorrow when they awake!!

Smoke em if you gotta em yall.. New bong appetite on vice land right now!!!

 

[PDX Joe]

@Tim Fox I can't wait to get some COBS just so spendy, I cant clear it with the wife as of yet lol

@Humanrob looking good man! and I think the thin steams might be a combo of issues, I know @Tim Fox has talked before about "sucker" branches with SIPS and I think trimming these will help focus on the main kolas, also @Photon Flinger has very good points as well.. silica and WIND lots and lots of WIND early on makes hearty thick steams... I know I am lacking in the wind dept at the moment... 5 SIPS in a approx 5x5 space... VERY crowded in there but wow this should be the best grow I have had yet.. not going back from SIPs ever!

@PDX Joe looking good but I bet if you left them a bit they would bulk up (-; and isn't being able to go away and not worry about your plants GREAT!!!!??

I'll post some pics of my girls tomorrow when they awake!!

Smoke em if you gotta em yall.. New bong appetite on vice land right now!!!

Yeah, the buds on the left plant are a bit small. The other plant is a bit better. My light may be a bit light on power, but I think I will soon remedy that. And I think I will have plenty for my own personal stash. I'm really liking the remote reservoir. It holds about 10 gallons which lasts a lot longer than my outdoor SIPs, so I was okay leaving for a bit longer.

 

[Tim Fox]

Yeah, the buds on the left plant are a bit small. The other plant is a bit better. My light may be a bit light on power, but I think I will soon remedy that. And I think I will have plenty for my own personal stash. I'm really liking the remote reservoir. It holds about 10 gallons which lasts a lot longer than my outdoor SIPs, so I was okay leaving for a bit longer.

Lol,,, a bit more power scotty,, warp speed,,, hahaha,,,, but seriously, i had 250 watts of cobs in 6 square feet of space on my last grow , and got around 10-11 ounces dried, but i have an old Cob panel sitting around doing nothing that has 4 cree cxa3070's running at 54 watts each,, i was thinking about cutting up a new frame and mounting 6 cobs on the next grow,, 4 citi 1812 4k's and then 2 of the 3070's at 3K for a total wattage of 358 watts, so at full power there would be just over 50 watts per square of cob power,, the citi's are dimmable so i can dial it down for seedlings/clones, and flip on the cree's during flower when they are hardened off,
its the Tim Allen in my Rah Rah Rah,,, gotta do it over here,,

 

[Tim Fox]

@Tim Fox I can't wait to get some COBS just so spendy, I cant clear it with the wife as of yet lol

@Humanrob looking good man! and I think the thin steams might be a combo of issues, I know @Tim Fox has talked before about "sucker" branches with SIPS and I think trimming these will help focus on the main kolas, also @Photon Flinger has very good points as well.. silica and WIND lots and lots of WIND early on makes hearty thick steams... I know I am lacking in the wind dept at the moment... 5 SIPS in a approx 5x5 space... VERY crowded in there but wow this should be the best grow I have had yet.. not going back from SIPs ever!

@PDX Joe looking good but I bet if you left them a bit they would bulk up (-; and isn't being able to go away and not worry about your plants GREAT!!!!??

I'll post some pics of my girls tomorrow when they awake!!

Smoke em if you gotta em yall.. New bong appetite on vice land right now!!!

the sucker branches,, yup I had thousands of them,, or so it felt, i got allot of popcorn stuff of them for making butter and oils, the popcorn buds are potent enough,, and do smoke well in the pipe,, just wouldnt be able to sale it at the legal dispensaries,, but i found myself asking,, if its just for me, and i have a use for it, such as the butter,, then why not grow it,, i have to ask,, if i cut off the sucker branches would the top cola's get bigger and make up for the wieght ???? since i am only doing 1 grow per year now i dont really have time to do testing , so i will watch you guys and see what happens,,
Sips are here to stay bro,, i am never going back,, next grow i am looking forward to the new sip, i can see the res level at a glance and its twice the size,, I should be able to go away for a long 3 day weekend i am sure,,
@Humanrob has those sips with the 10 gallon res i think,, now thats a vacation set up right there!!!!

 

[ttystikk]

the sucker branches,, yup I had thousands of them,, or so it felt, i got allot of popcorn stuff of them for making butter and oils, the popcorn buds are potent enough,, and do smoke well in the pipe,, just wouldnt be able to sale it at the legal dispensaries,, but i found myself asking,, if its just for me, and i have a use for it, such as the butter,, then why not grow it,, i have to ask,, if i cut off the sucker branches would the top cola's get bigger and make up for the wieght ???? since i am only doing 1 grow per year now i dont really have time to do testing , so i will watch you guys and see what happens,,
Sips are here to stay bro,, i am never going back,, next grow i am looking forward to the new sip, i can see the res level at a glance and its twice the size,, I should be able to go away for a long 3 day weekend i am sure,,
@Humanrob has those sips with the 10 gallon res i think,, now thats a vacation set up right there!!!!

Popcorn is from sucker branches, which on almost any plant will rob from the tops.

Gonna do a SIPS run myself soon and see what the fuss is all about.

 

[Tim Fox]

Popcorn is from sucker branches, which on almost any plant will rob from the tops.

Gonna do a SIPS run myself soon and see what the fuss is all about.

yes, but does it equal out in weight? thats what i really want to know,, i dont need fat cola's,, dont plan to enter them in the state fair,,,oh, here in Oregon, MJ plants are now part of the state fair judging,, can you believe it

 

[Humanrob]

Gonna do a SIPS run myself soon and see what the fuss is all about.

It seems to "give the best of both worlds", hydro quick growth with the ease of soil. All the nutes (dry time release) are added when the plants are transplanted into the SIP. Some people add stuff to the res, but its not necessary. So far I have found nothing easier. I can't say whether it yields the best/tastiest/strongest cannabis, but in my experience, it's one step closer to fool-proof growing. And as the recent posts indicate, the ability to go away for a few days and not worry about them drying out adds to the ease. With my 10 gallon bin res (probably holds about 8 gallons of water) so far I can fill it once a week. When they get bigger, they will drink more.

I jammed my phone into the fill port for some crude pics, this is very early in the grow so they've just started, but they have developed "water roots". I've seen pics on RIU of huge amounts of these roots (@SomeGuy had some great shots).


These pics are taken 10 days apart (7 days in, flipped to 12/12). I had to trim the plants each day for 4 consecutive days, and I'll have to keep trimming every few days for a while. The growth is kind of out of control... I do wonder if its too much sometimes. Almost feels like I've cross bred with Kudzu.

 

[Tim Fox]

It seems to "give the best of both worlds", hydro quick growth with the ease of soil. All the nutes (dry time release) are added when the plants are transplanted into the SIP. Some people add stuff to the res, but its not necessary. So far I have found nothing easier. I can't say whether it yields the best/tastiest/strongest cannabis, but in my experience, it's one step closer to fool-proof growing. And as the recent posts indicate, the ability to go away for a few days and not worry about them drying out adds to the ease. With my 10 gallon bin res (probably holds about 8 gallons of water) so far I can fill it once a week. When they get bigger, they will drink more.

I jammed my phone into the fill port for some crude pics, this is very early in the grow so they've just started, but they have developed "water roots". I've seen pics on RIU of huge amounts of these roots (@SomeGuy had some great shots).
View attachment 3952746 View attachment 3952744

These pics are taken 10 days apart (7 days in, flipped to 12/12). I had to trim the plants each day for 4 consecutive days, and I'll have to keep trimming every few days for a while. The growth is kind of out of control... I do wonder if its too much sometimes. Almost feels like I've cross bred with Kudzu.

View attachment 3952747 View attachment 3952745

quality photos, Awesome examples of how to do it in Sips,, Hey @Humanrob how tall are your 10 gallon sips floor to top of fabric,, thanks