HLG-600H-54B with Vero 29 B, parallel help please

grnthmb2

Active Member
I'm trying to replicate a PLC 6, DIY style for my first cob build.

I'll be using a Meanwell HLG-600H-54B (11.2amps, 604w, 27-54cc range), and gen 7 Vero 29 B (50v) version. I'd like to start with 6 (1.86 mA) of the Vero 29 B's, and expand to more if the driver can handle it.

Cob mA fV W
Vero 29-B BXRC-30E10K0-B-xx B @1866 51.4 96.0
Vero 29-B BXRC-30E10K0-B-xx B @1600 50.8 81.2
Vero 29-B BXRC-30E10K0-B-xx B @1400 50.3 70.4
Looks like I could potentially run up to 8? Even more if my math checks out.

My question is how to wire these to avoid thermal runaway. I've watched growmau5's video series dozens of times, I understand series and parallel wiring, constant current vs constant voltage, and grasp all the other concepts pretty well. I understand that I'll have to employ parallel wiring in this case, and want to in order to keep it expandable and costs down.

So electricians or people who have actually built a parallel wired light with a constant voltage driver, do you use fuses? Resistors? Something else I didn't mention? Or did LEDGardener teach us that this worry is completely unfounded and I'll have no problem just wiring them up together? Maybe I should start with 7 just in case one fries, the rest can handle the load. I don't want to hear from you if you're just guessing and your opinion is based completely on theory.
 

VegasWinner

Well-Known Member
A current mirror and monitor can save a parallel string from failure.
Published on:Apr 20, 2009
By Steve Roberts



An increasingly common method of increasing the light output from a high power LED cluster is to run parallel strings of LEDs from a single constant current source. But this option is not without its hazards.
A typical high power 350mA white LED has a forward voltage (Vf) of about 3.3V, so if an cluster of 10 LEDs were required in an application, connecting of the LEDs all in series would require a driver capable of delivering at least 33V. If the supply voltage is 24VDC, then an expensive boost converter would be required with all the attendant EMC problems it creates.




Fig. 1. Driving multiple LED strings

Connecting the LEDs as two strings of five wired in parallel requires a higher current 700mA constant current source but only 16.5V output voltage. Thus a low cost buck converter running from 24VDC can be used. The circuit (similar to that shown in Fig. 1) can be found in many manufacturers’ datasheets.
The basic assumption made with this circuit suggestion is that the 700mA regulated current from the LED driver will be shared approximately evenly across both strings of LEDs, i.e. each string of LEDs will see 350mA of current. However, this is rarely the case.

How LEDs become overdriven
Even if the LEDs are all from the same production batch and sequentially manufactured, the Vf of individual LEDs still has a ±20% tolerance. The tolerances mean that the total forward voltage for each string can be very different and therefore the current mismatch significant (see Fig. 2).




Fig. 2. Real life situation

In a test using identical SMD LEDs from a single production batch and using 1 Ohm resistors to help balance out the forward voltages, the currents flowing in each string were measured to be 306mA and 394mA. The LED driver was still doing its job of correctly limiting the current to 700mA, but the over‐current flowing through the second string was seriously overdriving the LEDs.
Worse, as the LEDs started to get warm, the combined forward voltage of the higher current string started to decrease. This increased the imbalance and more current started to flow through the already over‐driven string. The current through the other string of LEDs reduced as the constant current driver compensated, so they started to cool down and their forward voltage increased.

The net result was thermal runaway with the majority of current flowing through one string only, even though the LEDs were mounted on a large metal heat sink. The test was stopped when the current imbalance was 600mA to 100mA. Obviously, if this situation was allowed to continue, the over‐driven string would eventually fail and then the entire 700mA would flow through the remaining intact string and destroy that as well.

And this circuit is often given as a recommended application example!

Using a current mirror
What is required is a way of balancing the currents flowing through the two strings to ensure that they remain approximately equal, even if the combined forward voltages are mismatched. The balancing circuit must also continually compensate for changes in forward voltage caused by changes in the operating temperature and by aging of the LEDs.

Fortunately, there is a very simple transistor circuit that will do this job admirably. It is called a current mirror and “reflects” the current flowing through one reference transistor onto the current flowing through a second transistor (see Fig. 3). As long as the transistors are reasonably well matched in terms of their Vbe values, the currents will also be reasonably well matched.


Fig. 3. Using a current mirror

In tests using Recom’s 700mA LED driver and two strings of 350mA Osram LEDs, the currents flowing through the two strings were matched to an accuracy of about 87% over the entire input voltage range of the driver from 16VDC to 36VDC. The LED currents were stable as the LEDs warmed up and no thermal runaway was observed. It is important that the two transistors are both at the same temperature so a copper clamp was used to thermally connect both transistors together to keep their Vbe voltages stable.

In addition, if any of the LEDs in String 1 fail, the current to ALL of the LEDs is disconnected. Thus the LEDs on String 2 are automatically protected against being over‐driven.

However, this circuit is still not ideal. The currents are not perfectly matched and if any of the LEDs in String 2 fail, then all of the 700mA source current will still flow through the first string and destroy it.

Over-current protection
Fig. 4 shows the final version of the current balancing circuit. The addition of 1.5 Ohm resistors in the emitter paths makes the circuit less sensitive to small Vbe changes and balances the currents in the two strings to 99% accuracy.


Fig. 4. Over‐current protection

The addition of a small signal transistor as a current monitor protects the LEDs from being overdriven in the case of any LED failures. If LED1‐LED5 fail open circuit, then the current in the second string falls to zero as before. However, if LED6–LED10 fail, then the current increases in the first string until the voltage developed across the 1.5 Ohm emitter resistor reaches around 0.7V, thus turning on the BC337 transistor and pulling the base voltage of the power transistor to ground and limiting the current. With the component values given in the circuit, the measured current limit was 445mA with String 2 open circuit.

The circuit suggestion given in Fig. 4 can theoretically be extended to any number of LED strings by adding an NPN transistor and emitter resistor to each additional string and tying the transistor bases together. The current flowing through the reference transistor will be faithfully mirrored by all of the other transistors.

However, considering that LEDs are high reliability illumination sources and the driver and associated components need to be equally reliable to get the maximum lifetime out of the system, it is recommended that the circuitry be kept as simple as possible and restricted to only one or two strings per driver.

http://www.ledsmagazine.com/articles/print/volume-6/issue-2/features/led-design-forum-avoiding-thermal-runaway-when-driving-multiple-led-strings-magazine.html
A small breaker or thermal fuse is a good option you cnan pick up at your local auto parts store or online, I imagine a 5A would suffice wired in series to the cob


 

CobKits

Well-Known Member
So electricians or people who have actually built a parallel wired light with a constant voltage driver, do you use fuses? Resistors? Something else I didn't mention?
i usually use a slightly lower voltage (or adjustable voltage) driver so the drivers max voltage cant blow up the cob.

veros run a little lower voltage than other "50V" cobs, so where i know a citi or luminus can handle 54V, not sure about the vero B, look at the datasheet. is the current at 54V within spec of max current? that driver should top out right at 54V

Looks like I could potentially run up to 8? Even more if my math checks out.
you could literally run dozens. the more the better
 

grnthmb2

Active Member
...can theoretically be extended to any number of LED strings...
...it is recommended that the circuitry be kept as simple as possible and restricted to only one or two strings per driver.

So they are recommending don't do 6 all in parallel (6 strings, let alone 8?) Or rather, how does the PLC 6 accomplish this with a single driver? Maybe I should rethink my design. Because it seems to me the only way to make the current split is to wire them individually in parallel. Maybe I'm mistaken from the start and the PLC 6 doesn't use the Vero 29 B version, and rather a C or D, I'll to do some math with this combination of series and parallel in mind, but the above information seems highly conflicting. I guess it is saying real world vs theoretical.

A small breaker or thermal fuse is a good option you can pick up at your local auto parts store or online, I imagine a 5A would suffice wired in series to the cob
Thank you for this invaluable resource. I'm familiar with auto fuses, a breaker seems like an expensive venture, but maybe necessary if the above doesn't work out. And you mean a 5A fuse in front of each cob in series? Like each string? I guess I don't completely understand.

i usually use a slightly lower voltage (or adjustable voltage) driver so the drivers max voltage cant blow up the cob.
I had read a little bit that I could get an HLG-600h-54A instead of HLG-600h-54B, but that it was a roundabout solution. And I'm not sure what was meant by that exactly, but I'd rather do it right the first time. Also, does this protect against thermal runaway?

veros run a little lower voltage than other "50V" cobs, so where i know a citi or luminus can handle 54V, not sure about the vero B, look at the datasheet. is the current at 54V within spec of max current? that driver should top out right at 54V
51.7 - 60.0v is quoted on the data sheet for the B version, 55.8v "typical."

you could literally run dozens. the more the better
There are literally dozens of us!
 
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CobKits

Well-Known Member
I had read a little bit that I could get an HLG-600h-54A instead of HLG-600h-54B, but that it was a roundabout solution. And I'm not sure what was meant by that exactly, but I'd rather do it right the first time. Also, does this protect against thermal runaway?
id use 48A. higher current and adjustable up to 53ish volts. and yes. limiting max voltage 100% prevents thermal runaway. you can give a chip 10A and it wont take it unless the voltage is correct

51.7 - 60.0v is quoted on the data sheet for the B version, 55.8v "typical."
so to answer your question- what is the current/wattage at 54V (look at datasheet curve or vero simulator)- and can your cooling solution handle that?
 

grnthmb2

Active Member
id use 48A. higher current and adjustable up to 53ish volts. and yes. limiting max voltage 100% prevents thermal runaway. you can give a chip 10A and it won't take it unless the voltage is correct


so to answer your question- what is the current/wattage at 54V (look at datasheet curve or Vero simulator)- and can your cooling solution handle that?
Thank you for taking the time to reply. I'm looking at the datasheet and see that the 48A is only adjustable up to 50.4v, not enough to get to the 52 I was originally aiming at achieving. But I could apply this method to the 54, that is, get a 54A, and use the dimmer so it only spits out 52 (minimum fV) max yeah? So I had it backward then, limiting voltage limits current?

And in terms of 54V, that too much for me, trying to run them low like most LED'ers do I think.

EDIT:
I am mistaken, it goes down to 48.something volts.
 
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CobKits

Well-Known Member
look at the test report not datasheet, its certainly higher than 50.2.

But I could apply this method to the 54, that is, get a 54A, and use the dimmer so it only spits out 52 (minimum fV) max yeah?

well when you say "dimmer" the -A models have both voltage and current adjustment screws

either can function as a "dimmer" but the Io only will adjust from say 4-11A which wont protect an individual cob. the Vo will adjust voltage from say 48-54V which will prevent an individual cob in the case one cob sees more current than another.

so use Vo as a safety and set it just a hair above your normal operating range, then forget about Vo and use Io for general dimming
 

nfhiggs

Well-Known Member
I'm trying to replicate a PLC 6, DIY style for my first cob build.

I'll be using a Meanwell HLG-600H-54B (11.2amps, 604w, 27-54cc range), and gen 7 Vero 29 B (50v) version. I'd like to start with 6 (1.86 mA) of the Vero 29 B's, and expand to more if the driver can handle it.

Cob mA fV W
Vero 29-B BXRC-30E10K0-B-xx B @1866 51.4 96.0
Vero 29-B BXRC-30E10K0-B-xx B @1600 50.8 81.2
Vero 29-B BXRC-30E10K0-B-xx B @1400 50.3 70.4
Looks like I could potentially run up to 8? Even more if my math checks out.

My question is how to wire these to avoid thermal runaway. I've watched growmau5's video series dozens of times, I understand series and parallel wiring, constant current vs constant voltage, and grasp all the other concepts pretty well. I understand that I'll have to employ parallel wiring in this case, and want to in order to keep it expandable and costs down.

So electricians or people who have actually built a parallel wired light with a constant voltage driver, do you use fuses? Resistors? Something else I didn't mention? Or did LEDGardener teach us that this worry is completely unfounded and I'll have no problem just wiring them up together? Maybe I should start with 7 just in case one fries, the rest can handle the load. I don't want to hear from you if you're just guessing and your opinion is based completely on theory.
Thermal runaway is not the boogie-man many people make it out to be. The first step in mitigating it is to provide ADEQUATE COOLING. If your heat sink can't shed heat fast enough, or you are running it with very little thermal overhead, it can be a problem. Use more sink than you think you need. The second step you can do is use a current limiting resistor. I use a 1 ohm, 5w resistor on most of my cobs (some don't have one) to limit current. Just put a resistor in series with the power lead to each COB. If current increases due to a temp rise, the resistor will drop more voltage, leaving less across the COB, reducing current to counter the temp rise. Its not as efficient or as elegant as current mirrors, but its cheap and easy. I'm running 12 COBs total on two 36V dc Constant voltage supplies, some with limiters and some without. I've yet to see any thermal runaway.
 
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