My 8hr flowering experiment

[ttystikk]

I don't know if I'd call it courage that prompted me to try this. More like boredom and curiousity.
Now as far as your thoughts on using the saved hours for extra wattage.....that depends.
Depends most on what your lighting numbers are like now. This is just my hypothesis really and clearly I'm not a scientist or even a qualified bro scientist but from what I've seen over the years is most indoor growers go way overboard.
And 12 hours of way to many watts takes the plants over the line of diminishing return. I noticed that by the 9th hour during 12/12 that the plants begin shut down mode. I could visibly see that they couldn't or weren't taking in and processing those extra hours.
When I tired 6/18 with the 400mh it was obvious that it wasn't enough time to fill out completely to be worthwhile.
When I switched to 8/16 with the mh they filled in almost as much as I'd have gotten with 12/12. Once I switched to the led and the better spectrum and extra photons took over I doubt I'm losing anything besides hydro costs.
But every garden/space is different.
I've been tweaking this cabinet for a few years now and I'm finding limits to the amount of yield/physical growspace vs the amount of lights on.

Lots of trial error and repeating has occurred to lead me down the path I'm on now and I always recommend everyone choose their own path but at least people can choose knowing that their are options in the grow game.

Edit: oh and reducing hours speeds up the entire flower process but even dropping an hour or two the last few weeks can dramatically speed up finish. That's not just my opinion but most people who have tried playing around with cycles.

Thanks for popping in hillbill

It would be enlightening to see you run the very same space, lights and strains 12/12 just to quantify the differences.

 

[torontoke]

It would be enlightening to see you run the very same space, lights and strains 12/12 just to quantify the differences.

I contemplated this myself a few runs ago.
And it was suggested back near the beginning of the thread.
Prior to installing the qbs it almost happened a few times.
Perhaps now I'm just not as convinced that I can get any more out of this cabinet with such low wattage.
I could be way off tho
Maybe it's just that I've accepted that the yield from 8 hours is enough.
Thanks like I needed more to think about

 

[ttystikk]

I contemplated this myself a few runs ago.
And it was suggested back near the beginning of the thread.
Prior to installing the qbs it almost happened a few times.
Perhaps now I'm just not as convinced that I can get any more out of this cabinet with such low wattage.
I could be way off tho
Maybe it's just that I've accepted that the yield from 8 hours is enough.
Thanks like I needed more to think about

Lol what are friends for?

 

[Rooster802]

I've been following this thread for a while. Don't need weight, and I'm intrigued so I took my little 32" x 32" tent and put the lights on 10/14 (ok, I'm a pussy, I'll go 8/16 if I get a decent harvest at 10/14). I don't have your experience or knowledge, just trying to find out the best way for me to grow personal use. I'm two weeks in today, and I have an OG Kush in DWC that is maturing faster and looks healthier than anything else I've run yet. But I also just switched to Jack's hydro and got my res temps under better control so who knows why? All I can say is I think for my needs a shorter light schedule is going to be work better. Thanks for writing all this shit down and not being afraid to challenge conventional wisdom. The world will always need people who aren't afraid to go against the grain, and even more difficult, publish their results in the face of overwhelming criticism. You keep doing your thing bro, you are appreciated.

 

[torontoke]

I've been following this thread for a while. Don't need weight, and I'm intrigued so I took my little 32" x 32" tent and put the lights on 10/14 (ok, I'm a pussy, I'll go 8/16 if I get a decent harvest at 10/14). I don't have your experience or knowledge, just trying to find out the best way for me to grow personal use. I'm two weeks in today, and I have an OG Kush in DWC that is maturing faster and looks healthier than anything else I've run yet. But I also just switched to Jack's hydro and got my res temps under better control so who knows why? All I can say is I think for my needs a shorter light schedule is going to be work better. Thanks for writing all this shit down and not being afraid to challenge conventional wisdom. The world will always need people who aren't afraid to go against the grain, and even more difficult, publish their results in the face of overwhelming criticism. You keep doing your thing bro, you are appreciated.

Thanks a lot for that sir
It's always nice to hear positive feedback.
I wish you the best of luck on your grow and please feel free to drop by any time with updates.
I'd love to hear how 10/14 is working for you

 

[torontoke]

Lol what are friends for?

Lol fair enough bud

I spent the last few days out of the city doing a lot of thinking and I've got a idea.
I'm committed to this seed run I have started and I'd like to hit a few in my veg tent next round with pollen but I'll veg a plant and take 10 clones.
5 will go in my cabinet on 8/16
5 will stay in my tent but I'll swallow and put the timer on 12/12
Tent is roughly the same size
Now I just need to build another light in the next 75days.

Then there will be exact numbers to directly compare and I get the bro science diploma.

 

[ttystikk]

Lol fair enough bud

I spent the last few days out of the city doing a lot of thinking and I've got a idea.
I'm committed to this seed run I have started and I'd like to hit a few in my veg tent next round with pollen but I'll veg a plant and take 10 clones.
5 will go in my cabinet on 8/16
5 will stay in my tent but I'll swallow and put the timer on 12/12
Tent is roughly the same size
Now I just need to build another light in the next 75days.

Then there will be exact numbers to directly compare and I get the bro science diploma.

My expectation is that the 12/12 side will yield enough more to pay for the difference in power and time vs space used, but not a lot more.

This has me thinking... Again lol

 

[torontoke]

My expectation is that the 12/12 side will yield enough more to pay for the difference in power and time vs space used, but not a lot more.

This has me thinking... Again lol

My expectations are the exact opposite.
I think the extra 4 hours make for a slightly warmer definitely longer exposure to more photons then they can handle.
Now to get my hands on some boards with s5 chips.

 

[torontoke]

Hopefully we here back from some of the other people switching to 10 and 11 and we will really have some results to measure.
We already are kind of seeing it tho.
More and more people are switching to 10,10.5,11,11.5 without the catastrophic loses the experts warned about.

 

[ttystikk]

Hopefully we here back from some of the other people switching to 10 and 11 and we will really have some results to measure.
We already are kind of seeing it tho.
More and more people are switching to 10,10.5,11,11.5 without the catastrophic loses the experts warned about.

A difference of only 5% yield would pay the extra variable costs as long as the price of the product remains high. This would not hold true if the price fell significantly.

Since I expect prices to keep falling over time, I'm placing my bets now.

 

[torontoke]

A difference of only 5% yield would pay the extra variable costs as long as the price of the product remains high. This would not hold true if the price fell significantly.

Since I expect prices to keep falling over time, I'm placing my bets now.

Must be the dreamer in me that lives in fantasyland my man
I never think of it financially because I only grow for me. And the only thing that matters to me really is quality and turnover.
For the commercial grower or even cash croppers in general I think anything I'm doing is sort of a moot point.
If others were paying my bills I wouldn't care how much the bills were either.

I've always looked at this from a micro management angle. How much can I do with little.
How can I make that better and turn a little to a lot.
A thread on how can I make the most money growing weed would have been a lot simpler imho and I have zero interest in starting any more debates round here.
Efficiency and profitability don't always go together maybe

 

[ttystikk]

Must be the dreamer in me that lives in fantasyland my man
I never think of it financially because I only grow for me. And the only thing that matters to me really is quality and turnover.
For the commercial grower or even cash croppers in general I think anything I'm doing is sort of a moot point.
If others were paying my bills I wouldn't care how much the bills were either.

I've always looked at this from a micro management angle. How much can I do with little.
How can I make that better and turn a little to a lot.
A thread on how can I make the most money growing weed would have been a lot simpler imho and I have zero interest in starting any more debates round here.
Efficiency and profitability don't always go together maybe

For your purposes I would agree completely; since there's no sales in your situation, it doesn't make any sense to make that calculation.

Since I AM interested in developing solutions for commercial users however, I believe that knowing such calculations and break even points is potentially valuable. I'm not asking you to make any such judgements; that's my job.

I see a very promising idea and I'm excited to see where it leads. Frankly, the calculations matter for much more than Cannabis; for all the money in it, this whole industry is a tiny backwater compared to the larger agricultural market. Therefore, all the work being done to improve efficiency and reduce cost makes it that much more attractive for people growing everything from tomatoes to lettuce.

 

[torontoke]

Ttystick I really hope you didn't think I was casting any kind of shade on growers for profit. I re read my post and it could be read from the wrong perspective.
All I meant was that I never really considered the financial side evening out after a certain wattage level.
As u said a 5% yield loss would negate any savings to a commercial grower but to a personal grower that would be a fair trade off since they probably average a certain % as extra or overage.
I'm more curious about where the actual line of diminishing return occurs because those 8hr buds didn't really leave much available space for much more.

 

[ttystikk]

Ttystick I really hope you didn't think I was casting any kind of shade on growers for profit. I re read my post and it could be read from the wrong perspective.
All I meant was that I never really considered the financial side evening out after a certain wattage level.
As u said a 5% yield loss would negate any savings to a commercial grower but to a personal grower that would be a fair trade off since they probably average a certain % as extra or overage.
I'm more curious about where the actual line of diminishing return occurs because those 8hr buds didn't really leave much available space for much more.

Nope, it's all sunny here in Philadelphia! Lol

I think the break even will change as price per unit weight changes.

I'm curious how far price would have to fall to make the short day competitive.

 

[hillbill]

I have only gone to 11 1/2 hours in the past for the sake of Sativa to begin or to finish flower. That did no harm from just casual observation. Plant that grow outdoors here do finish with substantially less than 12 hours of daylight and much less in the hollows.

 

[torontoke]

I have only gone to 11 1/2 hours in the past for the sake of Sativa to begin or to finish flower. That did no harm from just casual observation. Plant that grow outdoors here do finish with substantially less than 12 hours of daylight and much less in the hollows.

Oh I know sir
The last 60 plus pages of this thread is all bud grown under fewer hours then that.
But I think most people are looking for a hard number to pin down.
Each hour of light equals x amount of yield.

More runs and a controlled, this verse that type of experiment that I never bothered with since I saw first hand the difference closing in on other people's rooms.
Now I realize what I saw first hand doesn't help anyone that requires proof with their own eyes. I understand that completely.

 

[torontoke]

Nope, it's all sunny here in Philadelphia! Lol

I think the break even will change as price per unit weight changes.

I'm curious how far price would have to fall to make the short day competitive.

While the price of weed per gram will continue to plummet the cost of energy will continue to rise.
So the offset or divide might take longer to balance out.
The value of meds will fall to the point that even 12/12 growing will be hardly worth doing if profit is the goal.
Of course I'm just medicated speculating but there's a lot of if buts and coulda shoulda scenarios about to play themselves out.

 

[ttystikk]

While the price of weed per gram will continue to plummet the cost of energy will continue to rise.
So the offset or divide might take longer to balance out.
The value of meds will fall to the point that even 12/12 growing will be hardly worth doing if profit is the goal.
Of course I'm just medicated speculating but there's a lot of if buts and coulda shoulda scenarios about to play themselves out.

I'm thinking that shorter on times will be a good way to produce the product for less cost and that falling product prices and rising power costs will both drive operators in this direction.

 

[torontoke]

I'm thinking that shorter on times will be a good way to produce the product for less cost and that falling product prices and rising power costs will both drive operators in this direction.

I'm expecting hate emails and threats from the power companies already.

I think we are on the cusp of weed becoming worthless. Only A handful of serious smokers are going to continue growing and by then your probably right how to do it cheapest will dominate the market.
You guys have a few legal states... up here theyre talking about every adult allowed to grow 4 100cm plants.
So who's buying after that? I would say that 99% of what's grown after next July will be horse feed but quantity always seems to dictate price over quality.

 

[ttystikk]

I'm expecting hate emails and threats from the power companies already.

I think we are on the cusp of weed becoming worthless. Only A handful of serious smokers are going to continue growing and by then your probably right how to do it cheapest will dominate the market.
You guys have a few legal states... up here theyre talking about every adult allowed to grow 4 100cm plants.
So who's buying after that? I would say that 99% of what's grown after next July will be horse feed but quantity always seems to dictate price over quality.

4 100cm tall plants doesn't sound like a limitless supply as much as a guaranteed excuse to hassle you granted to the mounties.

Would you believe the power companies actually want the Cannabis industry to use less power? Otherwise they have to buy or build the extra capacity. Both are very expensive. They're all kinds of on board with saving energy.