Universal Basic Income; 'bout time or batshit crazy?

[Navyaero]

The problem with homeless from what i have experienced and observed first hand is that you can not help people who are not willing to help themselves. I do not say this lightly. I have a younger brother who is homeless. Like many others on the streets he has mental health issues. We have tried to help him many times however he does not want it. He has a group of homeless friends and none of them seem to want to better their situation. I can give him money and buy him food however I feel whenever I do this I just enable him more. I am not saying all homeless are like this however, there is a large section of the homeless population that has learned to game the system and are completely content where they are. I find it really sad. And please to not give me a bunch of self righteous preaching unless you know someone who is homeless and that you talk to on a regular basis i do not really care about your opinion.

 

[schuylaar]

Except, sometimes the answer is no.

First not all homeless people are unemployed. Nor are all unemployed people homeless.

It is a good thing and charitable to help people using your time and resources and the time and resources of others if the help is given by people who voluntarily agree to it.

It isn't charitable to forcibly redistribute others time and resources though, that would be theft.

Further, if a person is homeless and / or unemployed and they are unwilling to help themselves, wouldn't giving them other peoples stuff provide the wrong incentives for the unwilling person to improve his or her own life?



Would you rob your neighbors to give your shithead disobedient kid "his" allowance ?

Other peoples 'stuff' usually comes in the form of donations to 'spring board' you to next opportunity, through food, shelter, limited health care, buss pass, place to shower.

It's never cash.

You have a very warped sense of what reality is within the homeless community.

Pretty sick if you ask me, sorry Rob.

Are you retired Rob? Do you collect Social Security/Medicare? If so, I'm bankrolling your ass..I'm out here working and paying into a fund that will hopefully be solvent by the time I get there. I make real money and pay maximum taxes as a single person, on her own, no safety net.

If something happens to my earning ability..where do I live? How do I eat? For I SUPPORT YOU!

 

[fdd2blk]

Other peoples 'stuff' usually comes in the form of donations to 'spring board' you to next opportunity, through food, shelter, limited health care, buss pass, place to shower.

It's never cash.

You have a very warped sense of what reality is within the homeless community.

Pretty sick if you ask me, sorry Rob.

Are you retired Rob? Do you collect Social Security/Medicare? If so, I'm bankrolling your ass..I'm out here working and paying into a fund that will hopefully be solvent by the time I get there. I make real money and pay maximum taxes as a single person, on her own, no safety net.

If something happens to my earning ability..where do I live? How do I eat? For I SUPPORT YOU!

You have no idea how any of this works.

 

[fdd2blk]

The problem with homeless from what i have experienced and observed first hand is that you can not help people who are not willing to help themselves. I do not say this lightly. I have a younger brother who is homeless. Like many others on the streets he has mental health issues. We have tried to help him many times however he does not want it. He has a group of homeless friends and none of them seem to want to better their situation. I can give him money and buy him food however I feel whenever I do this I just enable him more. I am not saying all homeless are like this however, there is a large section of the homeless population that has learned to game the system and are completely content where they are. I find it really sad. And please to not give me a bunch of self righteous preaching unless you know someone who is homeless and that you talk to on a regular basis i do not really care about your opinion.

Homeless people piss and shit where they shouldn't.
Homeless people leave dirty needles in the park so people's dogs and children can step on them.
Homeless people fuck in public.
Homeless people steal anything that isn't bolted down.
Homeless people are aggressive and aren't held responsible for their actions.

Those who need mental help deserve it. Those who don't should be locked up.

 

[StonerCol]

I love the United States of America the greatest country in the world.

I don't mean to denigrate the US of A, or any other country, but if you are going to claim that 1 country is better than another, or all other countries, by definition you must have a set of criteria against which to judge all countries. Otherwise it is just blind patriotism.
I'm interested to see your set of criteria by which you judge countries.

 

[Navyaero]

Homeless people piss and shit where they shouldn't.
Homeless people leave dirty needles in the park so people's dogs and children can step on them.
Homeless people fuck in public.
Homeless people steal anything that isn't bolted down.
Homeless people are aggressive and aren't held responsible for their actions.

Those who need mental help deserve it. Those who don't should be locked up.

I do not think it is quite that black and white.

 

[schuylaar]

The problem with homeless from what i have experienced and observed first hand is that you can not help people who are not willing to help themselves. I do not say this lightly. I have a younger brother who is homeless. Like many others on the streets he has mental health issues. We have tried to help him many times however he does not want it. He has a group of homeless friends and none of them seem to want to better their situation. I can give him money and buy him food however I feel whenever I do this I just enable him more. I am not saying all homeless are like this however, there is a large section of the homeless population that has learned to game the system and are completely content where they are. I find it really sad. And please to not give me a bunch of self righteous preaching unless you know someone who is homeless and that you talk to on a regular basis i do not really care about your opinion.

Let's break this down..you are correct some homeless wish to remain that way and there's nothing you can do about it. Giving your bother food is not enabling because without he'll be just that- without. Not having 'things' will not encourage him to seek them in a more traditional role of working citizen. When you say game the system..what exactly do you mean? The EBT of $200/month? Is it the free health that you must wait 3 months to see a doctor at a clinic? Anything critical goes through ER thereby straining an already bursting at the seams system. The free bed at a shelter? I know that's living large, but..

 

[Rob Roy]

Other peoples 'stuff' usually comes in the form of donations to 'spring board' you to next opportunity, through food, shelter, limited health care, buss pass, place to shower.

It's never cash.

You have a very warped sense of what reality is within the homeless community.

Pretty sick if you ask me, sorry Rob.

Are you retired Rob? Do you collect Social Security/Medicare? If so, I'm bankrolling your ass..I'm out here working and paying into a fund that will hopefully be solvent by the time I get there. I make real money and pay maximum taxes as a single person, on her own, no safety net.

If something happens to my earning ability..where do I live? How do I eat? For I SUPPORT YOU!

Voluntary donations are nice things, on that we probably agree.

However, the rest of your post seems a little anxiety, anger and jealousy driven. Might I suggest a long warm bath when you get home from your stressful day?

I will be working in my garden today and enjoying the sunshine. Some of what I grow will be donated to people who I believe are inspired to better themselves or who I think will pass it along when they are able to.

Please work on that anger though, it's not good for you and you will be more attractive to sugar daddies when you are smiling.

 

[fdd2blk]

I do not think it is quite that black and white.

It is in my area. It's a huge problem that is well know and often discussed, yet nothing is done about it. Absolutely nothing.

 

[schuylaar]

Voluntary donations are nice things, on that we probably agree.

However, the rest of your post seems a little anxiety, anger and jealousy driven. Might I suggest a long warm bath when you get home from your stressful day?

I will be working in my garden today and enjoying the sunshine. Some of what I grow will be donated to people who I believe are inspired to better themselves or who I think will pass it along when they are able to.

Please work on that anger though, it's not good for you and you will be more attractive to sugar daddies when you are smiling.

You're just mad that I can debate you..unlike the others.

 

[fdd2blk]

You're just mad that I can debate you.

Hilarious.

 

[schuylaar]

@ttystikk you got some Blowfly issue in this thread..

 

[StonerCol]

@Navyaero The telling point you made was relating to mental health issues. Perhaps the people like your brother are not getting the help they need, rather the help other people think they need. I don't believe most homeless actually want to be, it's just that often being homeless is less stressful to the mentally ill than living within the system that has caused their mental ill health in the first place.

I hope your brothers' situation improves and he can be made well again. All the best to him and I do respect the fact that you care about your brother and are trying to help him.

 

[schuylaar]

You're ignorant to the real world. Just STFU already.

 

[StonerCol]

Also let's not forget that tax breaks for corporations are actually handouts. Handouts that they don't actually need but are given so that they wish to and have the means to donate money to political parties. It's like a closed system that only the rich can be a part of.

 

[Navyaero]

Let's break this down..you are correct some homeless wish to remain that way and there's nothing you can do about it. Giving your bother food is not enabling because without he'll be just that- without. Not having 'things' will not encourage him to seek them in a more traditional role of working citizen. When you say game the system..what exactly do you mean? The EBT of $200/month? Is it the free health that you must wait 3 months to see a doctor at a clinic? Anything critical goes through ER thereby straining an already bursting at the seams system. The free bed at a shelter? I know that's living large, but..

Their food stamps all goes towards liqueur and drugs do not kid yourself I see it every month down by the beach where he stays. He get's free meals at the shelter and some restaurants that help the homeless. My brother is fat he is by no means starving. He receives free clothes and is provided bed and shower at one of the many shelters downtown. He has a group of about 30 friends and they all do the same thing. Completely complacent having all their needs met. Owe and that is before the cash they get panhandling( gotta keep up that drug supply!) Like i said not all but there is a sizable portion that do this. Local stores play into it to get the EBT. And yes all those stores down there will accept EBT for booze.

 

[postickslim]

I don't mean to denigrate the US of A, or any other country, but if you are going to claim that 1 country is better than another, or all other countries, by definition you must have a set of criteria against which to judge all countries. Otherwise it is just blind patriotism.
I'm interested to see your set of criteria by which you judge countries.

I was staking no claims nor blackening anybody else's eye. Just making a simple pronouncement. As I drink my first cup of Joe as we Americans used to say way back in the early 20th century like around the time when Germany was threatening to rub out your great country of England and America was your number 1 pal right. That could be a yardstick for measurement as well as they fact that everybody and his brother from another mother want's to come to America some to work,live and love and others to kill us. That mate is irrefutable!

 

[StonerCol]

I was staking no claims nor blackening anybody else's eye. Just making a simple pronouncement. As I drink my first cup of Joe as we Americans used to say way back in the early 20th century like around the time when Germany was threatening to rub out your great country of England and America was your number 1 pal right. That could be a yardstick for measurement as well as they fact that everybody and his brother from another mother want's to come to America some to work,live and love and others to kill us. That mate is irrefutable!

What a ridiculous answer. Many billions of people wouldn't come to America if you paid them. Your irrefutable claim is just plain wrong.

 

[StonerCol]

I could give you many reasons why the US and indeed the UK are not the best countries in the world. The way we look after the poor and sick tell me that neither country is even close to being the best. The numbers of needless deaths. There are so many reasons.
I'd suggest that Switzerland and New Zealand are 2 examples of countries that are better than yours and mine.

 

[StonerCol]

I was staking no claims nor blackening anybody else's eye. Just making a simple pronouncement. As I drink my first cup of Joe as we Americans used to say way back in the early 20th century like around the time when Germany was threatening to rub out your great country of England and America was your number 1 pal right. That could be a yardstick for measurement as well as they fact that everybody and his brother from another mother want's to come to America some to work,live and love and others to kill us. That mate is irrefutable!

I should also add that the US came into the war 2 years after it started. If I remember correctly the US entered the war when Pearl Harbour was bombed?
Up until that point the US lent/leased equipment to the UK, Russia and China I believe. Therefore making a huge profit from the war up until that point.
Don't get me wrong, I'm very glad that the US did help us out but it wasn't blindly doing so, it wanted it's pound of flesh (profit) for doing so.