Save my ladies

[ANC]

I don't use salt based nutes anymore.
The salt build up is not my strong suit if it affects watering and I'm sure it does.

I make lots of mistakes and there are no shortage of people to make sure I'm aware of that. I thought there was a chance we had it with the watering from below.
I've grown in ffof for over 15 years. I will never join the crowd that talks down about it, I think it's great and have endless pictures of xtal that so far has never been criticized.
I made my own soil and transplanted into it few days ago and have happy plants.
This grow I plan to go water only side by side, my soil and ffof comparison, I'm at the beginning of flowering.
I have grown water only in ffof with excellent results.
I grow 100% organic inside and out now.
I'd love the opinion of our two fellow growers who are fighting right now and would like to @ them, not a good time, if you were following the thread were they are fighting.
@ANC is a roots guy. I'd like his opinion on the roots that you and the OP like.
The pic posted by itself at 3LOC, Yesterday at 9:35 AM
I could be wrong about the roots, I just still think they should look better, they are no where near rot, I would not call them white, just me.

They are not fantastic roots, but, they are also not spiralling around the outside of the soil. Chances are, if it is potted up or planted outdoors, further root development will be without problems.

 

[Buba Blend]

I water like you. Sometimes to run off. I'm organic. It works with organics. My pots also hold water in the bottom like a hempy.

With salt based nutes you have to have run off. If not then you get salt buildup and lock outs.

My advice to the op is specific to the situation and nutrients used.

I totally want to have the debate with you about watering at a later date. I want you to help the OP. I never really wanted to get his attention as much as yours. Maybe only to ask him A couple questions. But my advice to him is to listen to you at least until somebody else we know argues different. I am going to make a comment to Anc about the roots though.

 

[Buba Blend]

They are not fantastic roots, but, they are also not spiralling around the outside of the soil. Chances are, if it is potted up or planted outdoors, further root development will be without problems.

whitebb2727: His roots look good. Those roots don't look really bad.

OP: Roots are white.

thcscreener: Your roots look fine, they should be white with little yellow (your photo is adding yellow tinting).

@ANC Do you think the photo color is inaccurate?
If the photo is accurate you see the brown I see right?
I never used hempy pots, are they a reason for the brown? What else causes brown roots in a hempy pot with soil in it?
If they are brown. I still think they are but IDK.
I never thought they were bad roots. If they are not white as you and I agree, what is causing it?

 

[ANC]

As long as they are not outright rotten I didn't see anything prohibiting the plant from growing nice roots when potted up.
If you followed some of the discussions I have had on here, you will know I am vehemently against roots circling a pot, unless it is the final pot you will use as it grows.
On the last pot, you can let the roots find the best spot to retain and access water.

 

[Buba Blend]

@MichiganMedGrower I didn't want to bother you and wouldn't unless I thought it was a good thread. Got a kayak story later. I am really curious of your thoughts on this thread. Am I way off base here? Just want to understand his root pictures and how they look like that while under watering?

 

[whitebb2727]

I totally want to have the debate with you about watering at a later date. I want you to help the OP. I never really wanted to get his attention as much as yours. Maybe only to ask him A couple questions. But my advice to him is to listen to you at least until somebody else we know argues different. I am going to make a comment to Anc about the roots though.

I welcome a debate anytime. Ask @greasemonkeymann. Lol.

I don't really want the op's attention. I try to help in grow threads when I can. I enjoy it. I'm human and have been wrong. I normally won't answer a thread unless I have a strong gut feeling or damn near positive what it is.

Ill agree I wanted to agree to over watering. It looks very similar to it.

I think the op would be wise to find a back up way to check soil ph. If the soil ph is truly at 8 then that could be causing the problem.

Thing is as soil dries the ph changes. I would check it again when the soil is good and watered. I'm also not sure how those probes check ph and don't know if the salt in the nutrients would effect it. I would think so.

I've had the problem of hydrophobic soil before and it baffled the hell out of me. It wasn't until I got mad and dug the plant up I figured it out.

I also got a bad bale of peat based soil similar to promix. 4 cubic ft bales. I bough 4 or 5 of them and all were fine except one. I documented it in my thread. Had to dig my plants up. Ph was way out of wack.


Start a thread and tag me. We can continue the discussion further.

 

[Buba Blend]

whitebb2727: His roots look good. Those roots don't look really bad.

OP: Roots are white.

thcscreener: Your roots look fine, they should be white with little yellow (your photo is adding yellow tinting).

@ANC Do you think the photo color is inaccurate?
If the photo is accurate you see the brown I see right?
I never used hempy pots, are they a reason for the brown? What else causes brown roots in a hempy pot with soil in it?
If they are brown. I still think they are but IDK.
I never thought they were bad roots. If they are not white as you and I agree, what is causing it?

As long as they are not outright rotten I didn't see anything prohibiting the plant from growing nice roots when potted up.
If you followed some of the discussions I have had on here, you will know I am vehemently against roots circling a pot, unless it is the final pot you will use as it grows.
On the last pot, you can let the roots find the best spot to retain and access water.

Thanks anc but the question I really want answered.
Why are the op's roots brown if the plant is being underwatered?

 

[Buba Blend]

I'm putting up a pic of his and one I just pulled out of a 6" clay pot. Look at his perlite vs mine. I think they look similar so I'm feeling the pic of his is clear enough to compare. Also MMD. Is this more of what you would shoot for as far as root development before transplant? The last one I showed on the other post was less developed. Would you take this one farther? It's about 7" tall.
I don't think his photo is enlarging, it can be viewed here.
3LOC, Saturday at 9:35 AM

 

[Buba Blend]

This was a piece of my first post Saturday, I still feel about the same.

Might be under watering my money was on over watering when I read your 1st post, still is, even with the doubts created above. Just MHO and it has been wrong.

Edit: Hey! I'm from Vegas and I think among the pack I'm an underdog in the over vs under watering. I get odds right? 2-1?

 

[Buba Blend]

@whitebb2727 I just did three experiments with dry soil in pots watering from the bottom up, I'm not sharing my results. Lets gamble before the big boys tell us what they think. If you have anyone to @ that can help, please give them a yell.
Maybe someone can tell us if maybe he did actually water from the bottom up.

30-1 is the Vegas line the op is embarrassed to admit he did water from the bottom up.(no big deal if so we all have our 1st grow)
I apologize for saying that, please note I only win my bet if you fibbed.
Someone can bet $30 that you are telling the truth to win $1. So I'm saying you are a big favorite to be telling the truth. I'm just a gambler I'll take the long shot.

Place your bets.
Over watering. $1 bet wins $2
Under watering $2 bet wins $1
OP Fibbed 30-1. $1 bet wins $30.
OP told truth. $30 bet wins $1

I got 50 on fibbed and 20 on overwatering as a hedge.
If he did water from underneath can I win both? Fibbed and over watered?

 

[whitebb2727]

@whitebb2727 I just did three experiments with dry soil in pots watering from the bottom up, I'm not sharing my results. Lets gamble before the big boys tell us what they think. If you have anyone to @ that can help, please give them a yell.
Maybe someone can tell us if maybe he did actually water from the bottom up.

30-1 is the Vegas line the op is embarrassed to admit he did water from the bottom up.(no big deal if so we all have our 1st grow)
I apologize for saying that, please note I only win my bet if you fibbed.
Someone can bet $30 that you are telling the truth to win $1. So I'm saying you are a big favorite to be telling the truth. I'm just a gambler I'll take the long shot.

Place your bets.
Over watering. $1 bet wins $2
Under watering $2 bet wins $1
OP Fibbed 30-1. $1 bet wins $30.
OP told truth. $30 bet wins $1

I got 50 on fibbed and 20 on overwatering as a hedge.
If he did water from underneath can I win both? Fibbed and over watered?

In not sure what you are getting at? Bottom watering works. Sub irrigated planters. I've watered from the bottom. It usually takes more than what you pour in At first.

Im still saying chronic under water. I have no idea about how the op watered it.

 

[Buba Blend]

Yes. Sort of. The pot hold water like a hempy bucket.

Using high feed rate and it sitting in the bottom of the pot is not good.

We will find out.

Then I'm lost. I guess I was just goofing and getting tired with the bet thing. I was hoping Anc would have had an answer about the roots. But I didn't understand the response and carried on a little bit. I am out. Happy growing!

 

[whitebb2727]

Then I'm lost. I guess I was just goofing and getting tired with the bet thing. I was hoping Anc would have had an answer about the roots. But I didn't understand the response and carried on a little bit. I am out. Happy growing!

I'm lost a bit myself now. Lol.

 

[greasemonkeymann]

I totally want to have the debate with you about watering at a later date. I want you to help the OP. I never really wanted to get his attention as much as yours. Maybe only to ask him A couple questions. But my advice to him is to listen to you at least until somebody else we know argues different. I am going to make a comment to Anc about the roots though.

the initial problem is UNDERwatering, look at the pic, there are very telltale signs of the plant going limp in the very recent past, and the lower taco'd leaf damage indicates that.
each and every time that happen the roots shrivel, die, turn brown and essentially degrade into the media.

I'm lost a bit myself now. Lol.

it's underwatering for sure, and chasing any and all other issues are a fools errand until it gets corrected.
the shriveling leaves will not recover, they'll soon drop.
look at the first pic, and the lower leaves tell all.
high temps, coupled with not enough water.
and measuring what you water in OR runoff is pointless will the million other variables goin on.
temp, humidity, aeration, fans, soil makeup, containers, different strains, etc.
i also NEVER have a watering "schedule"
never ever.
the plant and those aforementioned variables are too many to predict

 

[Buba Blend]

the initial problem is UNDERwatering, look at the pic, there are very telltale signs of the plant going limp in the very recent past, and the lower taco'd leaf damage indicates that.
each and every time that happen the roots shrivel, die, turn brown and essentially degrade into the media.

it's underwatering for sure, and chasing any and all other issues are a fools errand until it gets corrected.
the shriveling leaves will not recover, they'll soon drop.
look at the first pic, and the lower leaves tell all.
high temps, coupled with not enough water.
and measuring what you water in OR runoff is pointless will the million other variables goin on.
temp, humidity, aeration, fans, soil makeup, containers, different strains, etc.
i also NEVER have a watering "schedule"
never ever.
the plant and those aforementioned variables are too many to predict

Thank You!!!!!
That is what I was looking for, someone to come along and say how the roots could be brown while under watering and that you see the under watering. We were so far apart I was hoping some else would make a comment.

 

[greasemonkeymann]

Thank You!!!!!
That is what I was looking for, someone to come along and say how the roots could be brown while under watering.

absolutely, simple things like watering techniques and aeration choices make such a massive difference on health and vigor.
and possibly the most overlooked too, probably80% of growers don't understand how paramount that is.
water slowly, NEVER allowing the water to "lift"up any aeration, and always watering over the course of the day, NOT all at once.
i use the bejesus out of a big turkey baster, works perfectly to moisten the media when they get dry, trick is you wanna water when that soil tension creates a slight hydrophobic condition, and that's where the turkey baster comes in, very lightly water the top of the media and then come back in like 30 minutes to actually water the rest, the first application is to simply eradicate any dry pocket concerns, i always start at the edges and trickle it through in a spiral-type manner, the middle will always retain more water because it's sorta shielded from the evaporation process.
i also ALWAYS water till runoff, helps me monitor any excessive organic breakdown or leaching that sometimes can happen in a dense humus filled media.
i also never use fabric pots inside only outside, and only in the summer.

 

[whitebb2727]

the initial problem is UNDERwatering, look at the pic, there are very telltale signs of the plant going limp in the very recent past, and the lower taco'd leaf damage indicates that.
each and every time that happen the roots shrivel, die, turn brown and essentially degrade into the media.

it's underwatering for sure, and chasing any and all other issues are a fools errand until it gets corrected.
the shriveling leaves will not recover, they'll soon drop.
look at the first pic, and the lower leaves tell all.
high temps, coupled with not enough water.
and measuring what you water in OR runoff is pointless will the million other variables goin on.
temp, humidity, aeration, fans, soil makeup, containers, different strains, etc.
i also NEVER have a watering "schedule"
never ever.
the plant and those aforementioned variables are too many to predict

I agree.

I wasn't lost really as to what it was. I was lost in general at the point I said I was lost. I smoked some good stuff. Lol. I was having a hard time even reading.

I mainly hollered at you over the debate part. Buba blend wanted a debate. I was thinking of the debate we had over cannabis having a tap root. Lol.

 

[Buba Blend]

I agree.

I wasn't lost really as to what it was. I was lost in general at the point I said I was lost. I smoked some good stuff. Lol. I was having a hard time even reading.

I mainly hollered at you over the debate part. Buba blend wanted a debate. I was thinking of the debate we had over cannabis having a tap root. Lol.

I look forward to clearing my head and rereading this whole thread. I just came off of the thread before this that went to 268 replies and at the beginning nobody thought it was over watering but it turned out to be that. I probably should've taken some time before getting involved in posting again. Learned a lot here . One of my favorites somewhere back there you mentioned why people hate Foxfarm. I forget that. I'll try to remember it in the future.

 

[whitebb2727]

I look forward to clearing my head and rereading this whole thread. I just came off of the thread before this that went to 268 replies and at the beginning nobody thought it was over watering but it turned out to be that. I probably should've taken some time before getting involved in posting again. Learned a lot here . One of my favorites somewhere back there you mentioned why people hate Foxfarm. I forget that. I'll try to remember it in the future.

Careful. I never said people hate fox farms. People do complain that their nutrient line burns at full strength and that depending on region there are comaints of ph problems.

Neither are from personal experience just years of reading threads with people having those problems.

There are patterns normally with new growers. I would say that the majority is over or under watering and over or under feeding. A lot of over watering. Its hard for a new grower not to over water.

I'm guilty of it myself. I went from growing a couple bigger plants to growing many smaller plants perpetual. It took me some time to line it out as I was running several different strains. I've been growing some type of plant from the time I could walk and I still make mistakes.

I grow a vegetable garden that we can and feed our family with. I grow flower beds and have probably 50+ house plants.

I advise people to grow different plants. Grow house plants and whatnot. It will only strengthen their grow skills.

Ill even admit to getting tunnel vision and misdiagnosing plants. It happens.

 

[Buba Blend]

Careful. I never said people hate fox farms. People do complain that their nutrient line burns at full strength and that depending on region there are comaints of ph problems.

Neither are from personal experience just years of reading threads with people having those problems.

There are patterns normally with new growers. I would say that the majority is over or under watering and over or under feeding. A lot of over watering. Its hard for a new grower not to over water.

I'm guilty of it myself. I went from growing a couple bigger plants to growing many smaller plants perpetual. It took me some time to line it out as I was running several different strains. I've been growing some type of plant from the time I could walk and I still make mistakes.

I grow a vegetable garden that we can and feed our family with. I grow flower beds and have probably 50+ house plants.

I advise people to grow different plants. Grow house plants and whatnot. It will only strengthen their grow skills.

Ill even admit to getting tunnel vision and misdiagnosing plants. It happens.

Yeah! That was poorly worded.