LED bulbs for plant growth, which is best?
- Thread starter BobCajun
- Start date
whitebb2727
Well-Known Member
I like it too. Its doing a good job so far. I'm going to grow a single autoflower under it.
Rolla J
Well-Known Member
Good luck bro. Glad to see another UFO80 led on the forum! How r ya guna use the light? Just veg switch for a while during seedling and veg then both switches as she starts to mature.
whitebb2727
Well-Known Member
Just like that. Ill use the veg switch for a little while. I may use both.
They can harden off to the sun. You can start them under full power. Just not too close.
I noticed faster growth with more light.
nfhiggs
Well-Known Member
You're confusing the Vero 29C with the Vero 18 here. Ignore the top two lines. Its actually 18,394 Lumens @ 155 L/W and 118W vs 12,596 Lumens @ 155 L/W and 81W.Yes.
However, you do not.
155 lm/W each:
"D" variant - 1170mA @ 35V produces 6,347.25 lm @ 40.95W.
"C" variant - 1710mA @ 69.4V produces 18,394.47 lm @ 118.674W.
If you would have payed attention to the amperage you would have understood and agreed.
At the exact same efficacy, the "C" variant produces almost three times the amount of light.
Maths, it isn't for everyone.
The C produces 50% more light at the same efficacy. I agree, higher light output at a given efficacy is *generally* better, all else being equal - prices, emitter sizes etc. A quick check at Digikey shows the C variant at $28 versus $22 for the D variant. When you factor in the heatsink cost, depending on what you are using, final end cost could go either way.
There are two schools of thought here. One says fewer, brighter emitters is better, the other says more, less bright emitters distributed evenly is better. So it also depends on which school of thought you ascribe to. Enigma clearly comes from the first school. Not sure where Cletus stands.
Myself, after seeing the results in my most recent flowering plant, under Samsung strips, I'm leaning toward the second school. But I'm also still experimenting with various setups, so the jury is still out, so to speak.
Randomblame
Well-Known Member
@Enigma
I know why Rapidled makes they bad(the Citizens) and called they entry-level. Because they have a smaller profit margin. What do you mean, who made the first COB array? Bridgelux? Cree? No, it was Citizen!!! Citizen offers the largest selection of COB LEDs from small 2w COB's up to 500w and more, from CRI65 up to CRI97.
You have been busy a month with LED's and now you mean, you know everything!?
Fuck, shit, no!!!
You have nothing, except what a dealer whispered to you.
Citicen chips are as superior as Bridgelux or Cree or any other brand COB's. The datasheets says nothing about build quality but thermal conductivity does. Here is Citizen undefeated!
The difference between V29C and D is only the number of used LED's and how they are internally wired. The C has a few more LED's, longer strings but less strings in parallel, but use exact the same LED's for the arrays.
This means they have the exact same effiency.
The C is better only because it's bigger!
You come here and talk nonsense that you've learned in a month and we should believe you are a professional!?!
Go and find another forum to distribute your misinformation.
Here you are deffinitely at the wrong address.
Again, C is better because it is bigger than D(more diodes), just like a V29 is better than a V18.
Differences are alone the number of LEDs and the type of diodes used.
They all use blue LED's and the more they are, the higher its performance(assuming they use the same LED's).
A Clu058-3618 has more than twice as many diodes and would blow your V29C out of the water... at any current!
Even a 1825 can do that..
That's a FACT!
I know why Rapidled makes they bad(the Citizens) and called they entry-level. Because they have a smaller profit margin. What do you mean, who made the first COB array? Bridgelux? Cree? No, it was Citizen!!! Citizen offers the largest selection of COB LEDs from small 2w COB's up to 500w and more, from CRI65 up to CRI97.
You have been busy a month with LED's and now you mean, you know everything!?
Fuck, shit, no!!!
You have nothing, except what a dealer whispered to you.
Citicen chips are as superior as Bridgelux or Cree or any other brand COB's. The datasheets says nothing about build quality but thermal conductivity does. Here is Citizen undefeated!
The difference between V29C and D is only the number of used LED's and how they are internally wired. The C has a few more LED's, longer strings but less strings in parallel, but use exact the same LED's for the arrays.
This means they have the exact same effiency.
The C is better only because it's bigger!
You come here and talk nonsense that you've learned in a month and we should believe you are a professional!?!
Go and find another forum to distribute your misinformation.
Here you are deffinitely at the wrong address.
Again, C is better because it is bigger than D(more diodes), just like a V29 is better than a V18.
Differences are alone the number of LEDs and the type of diodes used.
They all use blue LED's and the more they are, the higher its performance(assuming they use the same LED's).
A Clu058-3618 has more than twice as many diodes and would blow your V29C out of the water... at any current!
Even a 1825 can do that..
That's a FACT!
Cletus clem
Well-Known Member
Using an hlg-240h-c2100b driver, you would only be able to run 1 c, being restricted by the high vf, leaving about 1/3 of the driver left not utilized. Roundung up this would put out about 23,000 lumens. I can run 3 ds, utilizing pretty much the full capacity of the driver and produce 37,000 lumens. The lower voltage allows you to better utilize drivers but more importantly, the energy consumed vs. the light put out is the same. One is not better than the other. Its a matter of application. Ultimately, the driver is the limiting factor and the efficacy is the same. Yes, it puts out more light at the same current but it consumes more electricity. I would hope that it puts out more light, if it didnt it wouldnt make sense.
Cletus clem
Well-Known Member
THANK YOU!!!!!!
Enigma
Well-Known Member
I don't recall ever mentioning a single thing about who made the first array, nor do I care. This discussion isn't about arrays.
I have data sheets, some of them I will share with you later.
Misinformation?!
You are very close to iggy.
CLU056-1825C1-303M2G2
3000K 80 CRI
16,444 lm 141 lm/W
2.25A 52V 117W
$71.31 for each chip.
CLU058-3618C4-303M2K1
3000K 80 CRI
23,958lm 142lm/W
1.62A 103.9V 168.318W
$98.94 for each chip.
BXRC-30E10K0-C-7x-SE
3000K 80 CRI
16,505lm 155 lm/W
1.71A 69.4V 118.7W
22,375 lm 141 lm/W
2.56A 72.1V 185W
$33 for each chip, or $60 for a beast engine from Tasty.
If you can understand all of those numbers without a colourful graph then you will simply concede my point and apologize.
nfhiggs
Well-Known Member
Yeah.... ummm, I'm just gonna leave this right here...I don't recall ever mentioning a single thing about who made the first array, nor do I care. This discussion isn't about arrays.
I have data sheets, some of them I will share with you later.
Misinformation?!
You are very close to iggy.
CLU056-1825C1-303M2G2
3000K 80 CRI
16,444 lm 141 lm/W
2.25A 52V 117W
$71.31 for each chip.
CLU058-3618C4-303M2K1
3000K 80 CRI
23,958lm 142lm/W
1.62A 103.9V 168.318W
$98.94 for each chip.
BXRC-30E10K0-C-7x-SE
3000K 80 CRI
16,505lm 155 lm/W
1.71A 69.4V 118.7W
22,375 lm 141 lm/W
2.56A 72.1V 185W
$33 for each chip, or $60 for a beast engine from Tasty.
If you can understand all of those numbers without a colourful graph then you will simply concede my point and apologize.
nfhiggs
Well-Known Member
The two chips you selected are 4th and 5th generation. We are at Gen 6, coming up on Gen 7. Maybe you knew that, maybe you didn't. I'll assume you didn't. At any rate, 5 minutes at Citi's LED Lighting page would have made it obvious. BTW, here is the numbers on the LATEST 3618C4 chip in the most efficient 3000K CCT:I don't recall ever mentioning a single thing about who made the first array, nor do I care. This discussion isn't about arrays.
I have data sheets, some of them I will share with you later.
Misinformation?!
You are very close to iggy.
CLU056-1825C1-303M2G2 <--------- "G2" indicates the generation. This is the Gen 4 series. Two year old at least. We are at Gen 6 now (M2-F1).
3000K 80 CRI
16,444 lm 141 lm/W
2.25A 52V 117W
$71.31 for each chip.
CLU058-3618C4-303M2K1 <--------- "K1" is the Gen 5 series. Still looking at last years models.
3000K 80 CRI
23,958lm 142lm/W
1.62A 103.9V 168.318W
CLU058-3618C4-30AL7M4-F1
3000K 70 CRI
25,566lm 155 lm/W
1,620 mA 102.1V 165.4W
Now, in your own words, the Vero C was superior (to the Vero D) because it produces 18K lumens vs 12K lumens at the same efficiency of 155 l/W. The 3618 produces 25K lumens to the Vero's 18K, making it unquestionably superior.
Does that superiority justify its $100 price tag? That's not for me to say.
Cletus clem
Well-Known Member
whitebb2727
Well-Known Member
I don't think I should answer that.
nfhiggs
Well-Known Member
I was referring to the CLU058-3618.
Cletus clem
Well-Known Member
The link i posted is for that @$53
nfhiggs
Well-Known Member
Ahhh, I didn't see the link, I was looking at the picture. You distracted me with a purty pitcher!
Last time I was perusing CDI their prices on the 3618 was $103, they've dropped quite a bit. But, in all fairness those ARE the Gen 5 chips rather than the Gen 6 - they are the same price, they just don't have any in stock right now.
Enigma
Well-Known Member
Blame DigiKey for those sheets.
I pulled what they had for sale on their shelf and pulled the sheets that matched those.
There is headroom for the Vero29, still. The efficiency isn't that great though, even though they are listed to run higher I bet there will be runaway heat problems.
Although, all of the currents shown will require active cooling. My setup requires passive cooling.
Citizen COBs that are in question are running 140° C at full power?
How do those chips deal with passive cooling, the latest and greatest 1825 and 3618?
@CobKits
Enigma
Well-Known Member
From what I saw for sale, I could get two Vero29C chips for the price of one Citizen 1825 and three for the price of the 3618.
That means two or three passively cooled COBs spreading out light at a much higher efficacy because the drive current and heat will be much lower.
That means two or three passively cooled COBs spreading out light at a much higher efficacy because the drive current and heat will be much lower.