Do you believe in God?

[Venus55]

This is the old "no atheists in foxholes" canard. It's merely a way for believers to self-validate. They can't come up with any convincing evidence or rational arguments, so they simply pretend that you secretly believe and therefore don't really need to be convinced after all. It's a way of relieving themselves of the burden, and it reveals that some believers are somehow threatened by non belief to the point of denial.

Of course, they seem to overlook the fact that even if every single person on Earth believed in God, it still wouldn't do anything to prove he exists. It's actually an argument against your mental state, not for it.

So true

 

[Chunky Stool]

 

[MarWan]

I'm not trying to convince anyone to believe in God, if God wishes to guide you, he will do so. God has left his signature in his creation all over the universe including our own body for those who can SEE, and he shows his ways to those people who seek his guidance.
I myself is a firm believer in God, afterlife, and Heaven & Hell.
after all God has created Haven & Hell and shall fill them both.

whatever you try to convince yourself with right now about Gods non existence, it shall change one day.

 

[jonsnow399]

I'm not trying to convince anyone to believe in God, if God wishes to guide you, he will do so. God has left his signature in his creation all over the universe including our own body for those who can SEE, and he shows his ways to those people who seek his guidance.
I myself is a firm believer in God, afterlife, and Heaven & Hell.
after all God has created Haven & Hell and shall fill them both.

whatever you try to convince yourself with right now about Gods non existence, it shall change one day.

The only way to change my mind is with evidence, a "signature" whatever that is, is not evidence.

 

[MarWan]

The only way to change my mind is with evidence, a "signature" whatever that is, is not evidence.

its not for me to change your mind, if you truly seek evidence or guidance, you'll have to ask it from God with the due respect He deserves.

 

[Heisenberg]

I'm not trying to convince anyone to believe in God, whatever you try to convince yourself with right now about Gods non existence, it shall change one day.

That was exactly my point. You absolve yourself from having to convince anyone by deciding that we already believe and just don't realize it. How convenient for you that even the people who disagree with you actually agree with you. It must be very comforting.

Did you know that you actually don't believe in God? You may think you do, but that will change one day. <--- Did you find this bit of sophistry compelling? If not, then you'll understand if we don't either.

 

[MarWan]

That was exactly my point. You absolve yourself from having to convince anyone by deciding that we already believe and just don't realize it. How convenient for you that even the people who disagree with you actually agree with you. It must be very comforting.

Did you know that you actually don't believe in God? You may think you do, but that will change one day. <--- Did you find this bit of sophistry compelling? If not, then you'll understand if we don't either.

I respect your opinion, I just expressed what I strongly believe in, I don't expect anyone to believe in what I say, I just laid my opinion.
What do I have to lose if I were wrong and there was no God?, What materialistic benefit do I get if I convince you that God does exist?

if I had a strong command of the English language (vocabulary), I would be glad to take this discussion more further, provided the mutual respect.
Peace

 

[BrewerT]

When we are healthy, have plenty of food , and setting safely in our comfortable homes, we start questioning if God really exists.
I wonder what would the non believers say when things go wrong and get real serious (getting close to death) say during a flight, or while cruising in the middle of the ocean, or during sickness.
at that moment when you realize its the end you will instinctively go into autopilot and cry for God's help and start making promises that you'll soon forget if your life gets spared.

So by your logic, only the comforted and thriving question God? The sick, famine, and dying all acknowledge his obviousness? I don't follow any scratch at logic you are attempting to provide.

More so, most of my conclusion in regards to "God" were formed, face down, in the muck and mire of Kandahar, Afghanistan with the 10th Mountain Divisions finest Infantryman. I can assure you, death or the surmised acknowledgement of its inevitability brings no man that I served with to his knee's crying for God. Do some research on this nations backbone. Its Infantryman. The men and now women who wheel and deal in DEATH EVERYDAY! To say the obvious least, Its overwhelming, but it by no means sends a exodus of people searching for God in their finest moments! If death was the great equalizer that brought us all to God, said God would not be so debated. Your statement is ignorant of reality.

So, when I was sick and tired of being a citizen of warfare, had no MRE's and no expected mess hall, package, and was sitting behind my wall of sandbags, taking incoming, comfortably uncomfortable, embracing the suck that is this planet, I never question why God anything. I stayed calm, and returned fire, your welcome!

Sincerely,

(Ret) SSGT Terry Gonzalez
2-14th Infantry --Ft. Drum, NY
10th Mountain Division

Member of the Military's Order of the Purple Heart.
Combat Related Special Compensation Recipient

 

[Venus55]

When we are healthy, have plenty of food , and setting safely in our comfortable homes, we start questioning if God really exists.
I wonder what would the non believers say when things go wrong and get real serious (getting close to death) say during a flight, or while cruising in the middle of the ocean, or during sickness.
at that moment when you realize its the end you will instinctively go into autopilot and cry for God's help and start making promises that you'll soon forget if your life gets spared.

As @BrewerT said, I'm sure there have been MANY, or more like millions of instances where people have been at the brink of death praying to their God, beseeching him to spare their life..... and to no avail.
God isn't a debate. There is no right or wrong. And there are no consequences for believing or not believing. The only wrong is insistence to persuade another to believe what u believe.

 

[BabyLobsterito]

(Ret) SSGT Terry Gonzalez
2-14th Infantry --Ft. Drum, NY
10th Mountain Division

Member of the Military's Order of the Purple Heart.
Combat Related Special Compensation Recipient

Much respect. My roommate was a 68W with 2-14th/10th Mountain. The stories and talks we had changed my perspective quite a bit, to say the least.

 

[jonsnow399]

damn this is sad...I will pray for all of you...may all of you find jesus Christ, our lord and saviour

I didn't even know the little fucker was lost!

 

[MarWan]

So by your logic, only the comforted and thriving question God? The sick, famine, and dying all acknowledge his obviousness? I don't follow any scratch at logic you are attempting to provide.
No, not only the comforted people question Gods existence, all of us 'have questioned ourselves onetime or another. Personally, I get these thoughts while smoking a joint on the toilet.
Its a Human's nature to seek help from a higher power "God" mostly during tough situations.

More so, most of my conclusion in regards to "God" were formed, face down, in the muck and mire of Kandahar, Afghanistan with the 10th Mountain Divisions finest Infantryman. I can assure you, death or the surmised acknowledgement of its inevitability brings no man that I served with to his knee's crying for God. Do some research on this nations backbone. Its Infantryman. The men and now women who wheel and deal in DEATH EVERYDAY! To say the obvious least, Its overwhelming, but it by no means sends a exodus of people searching for God in their finest moments! If death was the great equalizer that brought us all to God, said God would not be so debated. Your statement is ignorant of reality.

So you go and invade a very poor country, fighting people that have no chance against the mighty power of the USA using all sorts of weapons against civilians, and you expect to find God, or have God answer your prayers. That is not fair.

So, when I was sick and tired of being a citizen of warfare, had no MRE's and no expected mess hall, package, and was sitting behind my wall of sandbags, taking incoming, comfortably uncomfortable, embracing the suck that is this planet, I never question why God anything. I stayed calm, and returned fire, your welcome!

Sincerely,

(Ret) SSGT Terry Gonzalez
2-14th Infantry --Ft. Drum, NY
10th Mountain Division

Member of the Military's Order of the Purple Heart.
Combat Related Special Compensation Recipient

I appreciate your input and respect your opinion.

 

[MarWan]

As @BrewerT said, I'm sure there have been MANY, or more like millions of instances where people have been at the brink of death praying to their God, beseeching him to spare their life..... and to no avail.
.

That is so true I agree with you 100%.
But God is not obligated to answer our call or prayer whenever we wish it or as we wish it. In order to have a great chance to have our prayers answered we will have to follow his commands, remember his presence during our health, richness and safety, offer him the praise and respect that he deserves.

Why would you as a human care for people that do not care for you or respect or acknowledge you, and might go further and make up stuff that is not true about you.

 

[Venus55]

That is so true I agree with you 100%.
But God is not obligated to answer our call or prayer whenever we wish it or as we wish it. In order to have a great chance to have our prayers answered we will have to follow his commands, remember his presence during our health, richness and safety, offer him the praise and respect that he deserves.

Why would you as a human care for people that do not care for you or respect or acknowledge you, and might go further and make up stuff that is not true about you.

Hang on u lost me,,who's saying what about who!? Lol. Sorry couldn't resist
You're completely missing my point. U keep saying that one can't expect rewards from God if the only time they acknowledge his presence is when they're in trouble and need a quick favour. Yes I'd agree with that too. But that's not what I'm rebutting.
I'm saying what about someone who has devoted their entire life to their religion and to their God? An avid church-goer. (Or mosque etc).
What reason would God have to let's say a 16yo girl, practising, devout Christian, "pray everyday" kinda gal, be walking home from school gets abducted, tortured, raped .. For days, and then finally choked out of her misery!?

This is the answer I need to know?

Lessons learned is not an acceptable response or reason. I do believe in life lessons as such. But why a newborn baby was smothered to death by the family cat that thought it'd be a good idea to take a little "catnap" right on babies face! (Both parents devoted, religious, God worshipping.) There are NO lessons learned here except keep the cat outside when baby is asleep! No lesson is more valuable than a "truly innocent" infants life. It's unlucky, it's misfortunate, it's an accident. And if worshiping God doesn't prevent these sort of accidents then what do we worship him for?
I could go on forever making point after point and so could u I'm sure. This is a futile discussion. Like I said earlier about humans needing to cling. Religion was created to give humans structure, a purpose, a reason for "being". Something to cling to. And it's worked to an extent. But has also been grossly abused. Corruption is rife in religion and in church...
But that's another topic entirely! I'm tired. It's good to hear other people's points of view and reasons behind it. Just because I don't believe what someone says doesn't mean I reject it.
I hope u have a great day / night
Peace

 

[MarWan]

I'll try my best to answer your queries, so God help me.

What reason would God have to let's say a 16yo girl, practising, devout Christian, "pray everyday" kinda gal, be walking home from school gets abducted, tortured, raped .. For days, and then finally choked out of her misery!?

Why not look at it from a different point of view, for the case of the 16yr old God loving girl I would say that she probably paid for her sins or cleansed her self (purified) or simply God decided to promote her to a higher level in Heaven, there is a price for everything, and a few hours or days of torture and suffering, in my point of view, is merely nothing compared to eternity in Hell, or could be the ticket into Heaven.

As for the infant I would say he/she was spared a life time of struggle and suffering in this shitty world we live in, and went straight to a better place.

We as humans do not know what lies ahead in the future or what might children grow up to be (think of the tyrants, Hitler and so).

I'm happy that we are having this conversation in a civilized manner, and I extend my apology to whom I might have offended.
Peace

 

[Heisenberg]

I'm reminded of a story of a woman in Texas who was kidnapped and held for 18 years as prisoner in a basement. During this time she was repeatedly raped and beaten, and became pregnant 3 different times. She was forced to give birth and then, years later, to watch her children being raped and beaten, one of them to death.

Imagine her profound suffering. Imagine how many times she must have cried out for god to save her and her children. Imagine the number of prayers she must have offered. Year after year, rape after rape, god did nothing. He was content to sit back and let it happen, leaving her prayers unanswered. Yet, according to Christian doctrine, her captor only has to pray one time and ask for forgiveness. As long as he accepts Jesus into his heart, he can sit in heaven. This prayer God will answer.

"If I could stop a person from raping a child, I would. That’s the difference between me and your God.” ― Tracie Harris

 

[BrewerT]

That is so true I agree with you 100%.
But God is not obligated to answer our call or prayer whenever we wish it or as we wish it. In order to have a great chance to have our prayers answered we will have to follow his commands, remember his presence during our health, richness and safety, offer him the praise and respect that he deserves.

Why would you as a human care for people that do not care for you or respect or acknowledge you, and might go further and make up stuff that is not true about you.

Theoretically, if God was to exist, then yes he would be obligated to answer our prayers. What logic is there in a communication avenue if the other end isn't obligated? If he refused, ignored, or otherwise didn't he would not be omnipotent, he would be impotent.

Praise and prayer are nothing but entertainment for your troubled mind. Praise is also something a hypothetical God would not have a need for. Praise is again something humans created, not a God. Prayer is also the same. Prayer and praise don't fit in the reasoning and understanding of a God. Prayer and praise point to a very VERY INEFFICIENT God. Gods are NOT considered inefficient. Humans are, God not

Why would any hypothetical God create such inefficient and oddly mysterious ways of communication and behavior. Why make a human in your likeness that has to praise and worship you. Does God praise, pray and worship himself? Seems silly...cause...well...it is

What kind of God creates in his image ...just to "command" you to remember him and not other Gods??? Does this said God seems to forget himself from time to time....wish he would

 

[BrewerT]

I'm reminded of a story of a woman in Texas who was kidnapped and held for 18 years as prisoner in a basement. During this time she was repeatedly raped and beaten, and became pregnant 3 different times. She was forced to give birth and then, years later, to watch her children being raped and beaten, one of them to death.

Imagine her profound suffering. Imagine how many times she must have cried out for god to save her and her children. Imagine the number of prayers she must have offered. Year after year, rape after rape, god did nothing. He was content to sit back and let it happen, leaving her prayers unanswered. Yet, according to Christian doctrine, her captor only has to pray one time and ask for forgiveness. As long as he accepts Jesus into his heart, he can sit in heaven. This prayer God will answer.

"If I could stop a person from raping a child, I would. That’s the difference between me and your God.” ― Tracie Harris

Well said! Thank you for sharing. Such a true contrast of the fuckery that is religion

Most have let their fears become their God. Belief in a God makes you helpless, when if you didnt have this blindness of faith, you could save yourself.

 

[BrewerT]

I'll try my best to answer your queries, so God help me.


Why not look at it from a different point of view, for the case of the 16yr old God loving girl I would say that she probably paid for her sins or cleansed her self (purified) or simply God decided to promote her to a higher level in Heaven, there is a price for everything, and a few hours or days of torture and suffering, in my point of view, is merely nothing compared to eternity in Hell, or could be the ticket into Heaven.

As for the infant I would say he/she was spared a life time of struggle and suffering in this shitty world we live in, and went straight to a better place.

We as humans do not know what lies ahead in the future or what might children grow up to be (think of the tyrants, Hitler and so).

I'm happy that we are having this conversation in a civilized manner, and I extend my apology to whom I might have offended.
Peace

As for the infant I would say he/she was spared a life time of struggle and suffering in this shitty world we live in, and went straight to a better place.

God designed a fate that spared her, yet ignored countless before or after. Just one example of a inefficient and impotent "God".

If a human did that on earth, they would enjoy a lovely fate ...via other sick, mental, humans

Heaven has levels??? Must be for those that lived to 412 biblical years

Please forgive my jokes, Army humor still sucks. I sincerely apologize if I offended anyone. It's just words on a screen brothers n sisters! If God makes you happy, I am happy for you!!!!

 

[MarWan]

Theoretically, if God was to exist, then yes he would be obligated to answer our prayers. What logic is there in a communication avenue if the other end isn't obligated? If he refused, ignored, or otherwise didn't he would not be omnipotent, he would be impotent.

The Way I see it
He is the king, the creator, He gives, He takes. Yes he is not obligated to answer our prayers, He already gave us plenty of gifts that we should recognize in our body, and in our surroundings, and the greatest gift of all the Mind.
He hears all and answers whatever he wishes to answer even will answer a call from a non believer if He wishes to. God Had made a promise to answer the call of those who truly seek him and worship him alone.

Praise and prayer are nothing but entertainment for your troubled mind. Praise is also something a hypothetical God would not have a need for. Praise is again something humans created, not a God. Prayer is also the same. Prayer and praise don't fit in the reasoning and understanding of a God. Prayer and praise point to a very VERY INEFFICIENT God. Gods are NOT considered inefficient. Humans are, God not

True that God does not NEED our prayers and praise, Nor Gold or silver. He likes to be acknowledged and appreciated especially by the believers, praising him and praying cost you nothing.

After all God is not asking for much. We humans sometimes go through great deal to satisfy a boss at work, or anyone who is in possession of something we need.

again that was my point of view and the way I see it, at least when I go to bed I go feeling at peace, I don't have nightmares and sleep peacefully ( after smoking several joints ). I do not feel depressed our have anxiety, other than weed I don't need to take any sort of medication.

Peace