What Democrats Must Do

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Two truths about the white working class have framed the discussion of American working-class politics for more than fifty years. White workers, as political scientist Elisabeth Jacobs has summarized, are both “substantially more liberal” on economic policy and “marginally more conservative” on cultural issues than more well-off whites. This dynamic left the post–Civil Rights Democratic Party with a choice: move right on race, left on economics, or abandon the working class completely.

Since George McGovern’s landslide loss in the 1972 presidential election, the Democratic Party, under the influence of the neoliberal “New Democrats,” has chosen the final option. Rather than woo white workers with social conservatism or economic populism, the party decided to woo well-off white suburbanites with moderation on both social and economic issues.


Central to the belief that Clinton was sailing to an easy victory was the conviction that educated suburban whites would abandon Trump and his crude racism in droves. Acting on that conventional wisdom, Clinton downplayed economic populism and zeroed in on Trump’s divisive personality and general unfitness for office.

When the votes were counted, however, it became clear that educated white moderates hadn’t flocked to Clinton in anything close to the margins pundits had predicted. Even worse, Clinton’s strategy of avoiding economic populism had the unintended consequence of dampening the Democratic base’s enthusiasm, driving down support and turnout among both people of color and Millennials.


And last month, Will Marshall, one of the cofounders of the Democratic Leadership Council — the preeminent group of neoliberal Democrats in the 1980s and ’90s — joined with other centrist Democrats to form New Democracy, a group that once again aims to stanch the electoral bleeding among working-class whites and further court well-off whites by steering the party right —away from the “distraction,” as Marshall put it, of progressive policies like single-payer health care.


By focusing on the role of white voters in Clinton’s defeat, rather than the failure of the Democrats’ neoliberal strategy, liberal pundits and party leaders are drawing the wrong conclusions from Trump’s victory. Instead of debating how to win white workers or doubling down on the misguided strategy of courting upscale whites, Democrats must train their attention on the needs of the working class as a whole.

This doesn’t just mean that the party must retain its concern with racial, gender, and sexual inequalities. It means that Democrats must move beyond vague discussions of diversity and opportunity, and begin committing themselves to fighting for a more substantive justice. It means they must make a real commitment to confronting income stagnation, rising inequality, and the increasing power of the rich in American politics.
Such a politics would not only win back many of the working-class whites who flipped from Obama to Trump this election. It would also increase turnout among Millennials and people of color, enlarging the Democratic base by bringing many low- and moderate-income Americans alienated from politics back into the political system.

Only by prioritizing the working class as a whole, in all of its diversity, can the Democratic Party craft the policies and messages that will create a durable electoral majority.


What Democrats Must Do
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
impeach trump:clap:
I disagree with impeaching Trump for a couple main reasons; 1. then we get Pence, who is undoubtedly much more politically savvy since he's been in congress and was elected Governor of Indiana. He's a fundamentalist Christian with backwards beliefs on abortion/womens rights, science/evolution, etc. I think he would be able to work with the Republican congress much more and get much more of the Republican agenda passed. 2. Democrats spend a lot of political capital only to end up with someone equally as bad, if not worse.

If we let Trump continue his shit show of an administration, Republicans are proven to be the most inept party, completely incapable of governing effectively, even with control of all branches of government. It creates a huge division between Trump supporters and more moderate Republicans within the party and they end up weaker collectively because of it.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
I disagree with impeaching Trump for a couple main reasons; 1. then we get Pence, who is undoubtedly much more politically savvy since he's been in congress and was elected Governor of Indiana. He's a fundamentalist Christian with backwards beliefs on abortion/womens rights, science/evolution, etc. I think he would be able to work with the Republican congress much more and get much more of the Republican agenda passed. 2. Democrats spend a lot of political capital only to end up with someone equally as bad, if not worse.

If we let Trump continue his shit show of an administration, Republicans are proven to be the most inept party, completely incapable of governing effectively, even with control of all branches of government. It creates a huge division between Trump supporters and more moderate Republicans within the party and they end up weaker collectively because of it.
"let's not impeach and convict a criminal because i don't like the second criminal in line"

you are a fucking pussy, padaraper.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Two truths about the white working class have framed the discussion of American working-class politics for more than fifty years. White workers, as political scientist Elisabeth Jacobs has summarized, are both “substantially more liberal” on economic policy and “marginally more conservative” on cultural issues than more well-off whites. This dynamic left the post–Civil Rights Democratic Party with a choice: move right on race, left on economics, or abandon the working class completely.

Since George McGovern’s landslide loss in the 1972 presidential election, the Democratic Party, under the influence of the neoliberal “New Democrats,” has chosen the final option. Rather than woo white workers with social conservatism or economic populism, the party decided to woo well-off white suburbanites with moderation on both social and economic issues.


Central to the belief that Clinton was sailing to an easy victory was the conviction that educated suburban whites would abandon Trump and his crude racism in droves. Acting on that conventional wisdom, Clinton downplayed economic populism and zeroed in on Trump’s divisive personality and general unfitness for office.

When the votes were counted, however, it became clear that educated white moderates hadn’t flocked to Clinton in anything close to the margins pundits had predicted. Even worse, Clinton’s strategy of avoiding economic populism had the unintended consequence of dampening the Democratic base’s enthusiasm, driving down support and turnout among both people of color and Millennials.


And last month, Will Marshall, one of the cofounders of the Democratic Leadership Council — the preeminent group of neoliberal Democrats in the 1980s and ’90s — joined with other centrist Democrats to form New Democracy, a group that once again aims to stanch the electoral bleeding among working-class whites and further court well-off whites by steering the party right —away from the “distraction,” as Marshall put it, of progressive policies like single-payer health care.


By focusing on the role of white voters in Clinton’s defeat, rather than the failure of the Democrats’ neoliberal strategy, liberal pundits and party leaders are drawing the wrong conclusions from Trump’s victory. Instead of debating how to win white workers or doubling down on the misguided strategy of courting upscale whites, Democrats must train their attention on the needs of the working class as a whole.

This doesn’t just mean that the party must retain its concern with racial, gender, and sexual inequalities. It means that Democrats must move beyond vague discussions of diversity and opportunity, and begin committing themselves to fighting for a more substantive justice. It means they must make a real commitment to confronting income stagnation, rising inequality, and the increasing power of the rich in American politics.
Such a politics would not only win back many of the working-class whites who flipped from Obama to Trump this election. It would also increase turnout among Millennials and people of color, enlarging the Democratic base by bringing many low- and moderate-income Americans alienated from politics back into the political system.

Only by prioritizing the working class as a whole, in all of its diversity, can the Democratic Party craft the policies and messages that will create a durable electoral majority.


What Democrats Must Do
This ignores the fact that the Democratic Party is hooked on the opiate of corporate and donor cash, to the point where they'll concoct any excuse to keep doing their donor's bidding and the majority of their base be damned.

A third party will threaten them existentially and force them to confront both their intended constituents and their addiction to donor cash. There's no guarantee that even then they'll make the decision to represent the base, so the pressure has to stay on.

If establishment Democrats choose the cash, the Progressive Left must step up and show the lower classes (that's the 'other' 95%) how they'll fight for a better life for THEM, not monopolistic megacorps and their billionaire owners.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
"let's not impeach and convict a criminal because i don't like the second criminal in line"

you are a fucking pussy, padaraper.
The next convict in line is arguably much worse. It's not because "I don't like him" (which means you do like Pence). It's because he will be worse than Trump. You want to waste political capital and impeach someone for someone who's much worse
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
impeach trump:clap:
No.
I disagree with impeaching Trump for a couple main reasons; 1. then we get Pence, who is undoubtedly much more politically savvy since he's been in congress and was elected Governor of Indiana. He's a fundamentalist Christian with backwards beliefs on abortion/womens rights, science/evolution, etc. I think he would be able to work with the Republican congress much more and get much more of the Republican agenda passed. 2. Democrats spend a lot of political capital only to end up with someone equally as bad, if not worse.

If we let Trump continue his shit show of an administration, Republicans are proven to be the most inept party, completely incapable of governing effectively, even with control of all branches of government. It creates a huge division between Trump supporters and more moderate Republicans within the party and they end up weaker collectively because of it.
I agree.

Force the Republicans to deal with their own monster in the White House and until they do, keep pointing up the presidential albatross hanging around their collective necks. It's been pretty effective so far.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
you and tty and schuy have become literally fucking retarded.

a criminal is a criminal. a criminal should not be let off the hook just because you don't like the next criminal in line you brainwashed cult member.
More foaming at the mouth name-calling. Pathetic. And still dead stupid wrong.

The whole administration is a bunch of criminals. Why pick and choose? The tactic of leaving the idiot in charge because the next in line would be worse is a time honored tactic because it makes sense.

A lot more sense than you make anymore.
 

tangerinegreen555

Well-Known Member
And in spite of the inside connections you live to brag about, you're a politically naive idiot, Uncle Fuckwit. But name-calling is useless as a debate tactic amongst intelligent participants, so I'll use the tools of logic you're increasingly incapable of wielding anymore;

Why should the Democratic Party take the lead in impeachment? It would play right into the hands of the Republican establishment and in any case they don't have the votes to succeed.

Furthermore, from the Democratic standpoint, what's wrong with leaving the idiot in Chief right where he is? He isn't effective and he is doing a fabulous job of undermining the credibility of his erstwhile party in ways the Democrats can't even touch!
Remember the good old days when you were a liberal Democrat?

What are you now, exactly?
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
More foaming at the mouth name-calling. Pathetic. And still dead stupid wrong.

The whole administration is a bunch of criminals. Why pick and choose? The tactic of leaving the idiot in charge because the next in line would be worse is a time honored tactic because it makes sense.

A lot more sense than you make anymore.
you don't want to convict a criminal.

suck trump's dick already you turncoat.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
This ignores the fact that the Democratic Party is hooked on the opiate of corporate and donor cash, to the point where they'll concoct any excuse to keep doing their donor's bidding and the majority of their base be damned.

A third party will threaten them existentially and force them to confront both their intended constituents and their addiction to donor cash. There's no guarantee that even then they'll make the decision to represent the base, so the pressure has to stay on.

If establishment Democrats choose the cash, the Progressive Left must step up and show the lower classes (that's the 'other' 95%) how they'll fight for a better life for THEM, not monopolistic megacorps and their billionaire owners.
I'm glad you pointed that out, that is one of my main concerns as well. I don't want establishment Democrats to win elections just as much as I don't want Republicans to win. Establishment Dems are banking on Trump doing so unbelievably bad they can continue to push for their corporate agenda and waltz right into the White House and congress as the only other opposition party available. In essence "Trump is shit, who else you got!? Nobody, vote for us or get Trump again!". Which is the same exact message they ran on in 2016 that caused a humiliating defeat. "Trump BAD!!!" isn't enough. If Trump fucks up enough, it might be. I think our job is to continue to push actual progressives and donate to their causes and highlight the policies we support.

2018 is going to be interesting. Establishment Democrats are working heavily behind the scenes, they're working on ensuring Democratic voters in New York and across the country have to register early in order to vote in the closed primary in 2018, effectively limiting voter turnout and subverting democracy (because establishment candidates perform better in closed districts). Perez and the DNC have effectively purged all Bernie Sanders/Keith Ellison supporters from DNC leadership positions meaning they can effectively "choose the candidate in smoke filled back rooms if they want". And Donna Brazile was hired back onto the DNC on the rules committee, after admitting breaking the rules in 2016 to help Clinton win the primary. The DNC has not changed, they don't want party unity, they want progressives to fall in line and vote for whatever establishment Democrat they choose to head the party in 2020.

Since the DNC and Democratic leadership is refusing to change, I support starting a 3rd, progressive party. The results of which will be another Democratic loss in 2020 and a likely Republican win, depending on the rest of Trumps administration. To make myself absolutely clear; I don't want Trump to win again, I don't want any Republican to win. But I know this is the only way to ensure a progressive will win since establishment Democrats would rather lose to a Republican then let actual progressives win and control the party because they know it will mean an end to corporate and high dollar donations.

2018 is going to show us the direction to take. If establishment, corporate Democrats continue down their path, and continue to cheat across the country to win elections, I'll do everything in my power to defeat them, regardless of a Republican victory. If an establishment Democrat somehow manages to win an election based on catering to Wall Street and big Pharma, without cheating, I'll support them. But everyone knows that won't win elections. They have to cheat to win.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
you don't want to convict a criminal.

suck trump's dick already you turncoat.
Spend time actually trying to help actual Americans instead of wasting it on show tricks.

If the Democratic Party was actually doing their job of making the lot of the average American's life better, the Chump would never have happened.

But if course accepting responsibility is far too much to ask the Democrats anymore.

I gave up on the Democrats. They aren't enough different than Republicans to make any real difference in my life.

Millions of Americans agree with me. That terrifies you, doesn't it? GOOD.
 

tangerinegreen555

Well-Known Member
Spend time actually trying to help actual Americans instead of wasting it on show tricks.

If the Democratic Party was actually doing their job of making the lot of the average American's life better, the Chump would never have happened.

But if course accepting responsibility is far too much to ask the Democrats anymore.

I gave up on the Democrats. They aren't enough different than Republicans to make any real difference in my life.

Millions of Americans agree with me. That terrifies you doesn't it? GOOD.
People wanted 'change'.

They got it.

They'll want 'change' even more now.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
I disagree with impeaching Trump for a couple main reasons; 1. then we get Pence, who is undoubtedly much more politically savvy since he's been in congress and was elected Governor of Indiana. He's a fundamentalist Christian with backwards beliefs on abortion/womens rights, science/evolution, etc. I think he would be able to work with the Republican congress much more and get much more of the Republican agenda passed. 2. Democrats spend a lot of political capital only to end up with someone equally as bad, if not worse.

If we let Trump continue his shit show of an administration, Republicans are proven to be the most inept party, completely incapable of governing effectively, even with control of all branches of government. It creates a huge division between Trump supporters and more moderate Republicans within the party and they end up weaker collectively because of it.
Aren't you the one who has been laying down the law about how we have to sit by while Nazis parade and Klansmen make speeches about how they will take this country back? You say this when it's completely within people's rights to show up and protest hate speech. Now, you say ignore any charges leveled against Trump. Wow. Just, wow.

Agree that Democrats don't have standing in this Congress to act, they can't on their own, this is clear. The only way that impeachment could proceed is if the Republican congress had to act. Then, charges bad enough to convince the Republican Congress it had to act against Trump should be ignored? Because Pence might be more effective?

As I've said before, Sanders supporters are an embarrassment.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Aren't you the one who has been laying down the law about how we have to sit by while Nazis parade and Klansmen make speeches about how they will take this country back? You say this when it's completely within people's rights to show up and protest hate speech. Now, you say ignore any charges leveled against Trump. Wow. Just, wow.

Agree that Democrats don't have standing in this Congress to act, they can't on their own, this is clear. The only way that impeachment could proceed is if the Republican congress had to act. Then, charges bad enough to convince the Republican Congress it had to act against Trump should be ignored? Because Pence might be more effective?

As I've said before, Sanders supporters are an embarrassment.
Why isn't it up to Republicans to clean their own house?
 
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