Is this 1818 better than 1212? | Longer timescale efficiency questions.

uncanny · Oct 29, 2017

How does this cob:
CITIZEN 3500K 54,9V CLL040-1818A5-353H1A7
$12 @ ebay: https://tinyurl.com/CLL040-1818A5-353H1A7
Data sheet: http://ce.citizen.co.jp/lighting_led/dl_data/datasheet/en/H_3500K/CLL040-1818A5-353H1A7_P2123_0512.pdf
Compare to:
CITIZEN 3500K CLU048-1212C4-353M2M2-F1 Version 6
$12 @ ebay: https://tinyurl.com/CLU048-1212C4
Data sheet: http://ce.citizen.co.jp/lighting_led/dl_data/datasheet/en/COB_6/CLU048-1212C4_P3811_1116.pdf
----------------------

I have 3.5x3.5 feet area. Planning to use 3-8 cobs around 300 watts.
What is your version of cobs and wattage for space like that?

Now I have burble branded "G8LED 450". Leds are slowly dying and melting. I woke up to crackling noise and smell. Thankfully I was just sleeping and not away from home. Driver's wire was loose and burned holes all around the led board. Now it is working again after re-soldering thicker wires. Still it needs to be replaced to guarantee some safety.

I have 5 free aluminum PC heat sinks lying around for 80W.
Also 2"x2"x150" aluminum frames (quantum board anyone?!)
Also 8 x 230V to 12v 400mA transformers. If there is some cobs to suggest for that low current.

How about choosing efficiency over value? Energy costs is about 13cent/kWh.
Should I pick a more efficient chip than say Citizen 1212, If I plan to use it over 4 years?
Planning to pay some premium for good driver with dimmer option. When better cobs will became cheaper I can always replace the old ones and keep the 90+% driver, right? I'm in impression that good driver pays itself back with smaller energy bill.

Here is the popular image about some cobs efficiency:

If I end up to try 5x cob. I might try something like this:
1x 3000K
3x 3500K
1x 4000K
Then on veg cut power to the 3000K and put it back later.
Same thing with 4000K, remove it when blooming is nearly done.
What do you think? I'm more than happy to go just 5x 3500K but that micro-managing would save some energy.

Feel free to suggest whatever you think is reasonable and criticize unrealistic ideas.

CobKits · Oct 29, 2017

the 1818 you list is ancient and not worth buying at any price

both $9 gen 5 1212 and $12 gen6 1212 are better

uncanny · Oct 29, 2017

Thanks for your time CobKits.
If I remove all these Norwegian 400mA trasformers for the equation, what driver I should choose?
I can't buy anything from USA because of import taxes.

CobKits · Oct 29, 2017

can you not buy meanwell in your country? how about pairui or inventronics?

you want a 90%+ efficiency driver built for driving LEDs

tatikas · Oct 30, 2017

tme.eu for meanwell drivers in europe if that's where you're at. Although it might be cheaper to buy components from china, even after shipping and taxes.

Randomblame · Oct 30, 2017

tmu.eu is a great source for MeanWell drivers for us europians.
I usually bought mine there since a few years and never were dissapointed.
Affortable prices and fast shipping.

Snaddehat · Oct 30, 2017

Second that. I've also used Tme.eu with success

key4 · Oct 30, 2017

Randomblame said:
tmu.eu is a great source for MeanWell drivers for us europians.
I usually bought mine there since a few years and never were dissapointed.
Affortable prices and fast shipping.

There out of most the usuall ones till late january. Ive been using arrow and it comes next day and with the current 10% discount its cheaper too.

Any other good sources??? i was on octopart for hours last night.

Randomblame · Oct 30, 2017

RapidLED, Mouser, Cutter.com.au, Jerry from Kingbrite, and there are a lot more...
Try Google instead of octopart

But aviod "buy-components", I've heard nothing good about them.

PSUAGRO. · Oct 30, 2017

Harvard drivers are located in the EU......93%+ efficient, I think

A "boutique" builder out of France, used to incorporate them.

MarioLife · Oct 30, 2017

Wow what generation is that CITIZEN 3500K 54,9V CLL040-1818A5-353H1A7 cob?

CobKits · Oct 30, 2017

2012
gen 1

http://web.archive.org/web/20120615181420/http://ce.citizen.co.jp:80/lighting_led/jp/products/COB_series.html

MarioLife · Oct 30, 2017

crickey... gen 1... so old the link was archived.

CobKits · Oct 30, 2017

everything is archived on the internet!

uncanny · Oct 31, 2017

What are these I(out)ADJ and V(out)ADJ screws for? B-model is missing those settings.

List of parts for now:

5x 1212 Gen6 (Maximum drive current 2760mA) Driving them about 45W each.
HLG-240H-C1400B (Constant Current 1400mA max) Cobs wired in series.
Graphics shows that Meanwell H-models give the best efficiency near the 100% capacity (230V).
100Kohm potentiometer. Can this be a problem? Do I need to go parallel or series with setup like this.

What board members think, anything to change? 250W might be too little for 3.5x3.5 feet area.
5 x 1212 is pretty much only thing that must be locked in.

CobKits · Oct 31, 2017

uncanny said:
What are these I(out)ADJ and V(out)ADJ screws for? B-model is missing those settings.

they adjust Iout (output current) and Vout (output voltage)

uncanny said:
Graphics shows that Meanwell H-models give the best efficiency near the 100% capacity (230V).

pretty flat above 60% load for the most part

uncanny said:
100Kohm potentiometer. Can this be a problem? Do I need to go parallel or series with setup like this.

its on a separate circuit and has nothing to do with cob wiring

Randomblame · Oct 31, 2017

uncanny said:
What are these I(out)ADJ and V(out)ADJ screws for? B-model is missing those settings.

List of parts for now:

5x 1212 Gen6 (Maximum drive current 2760mA) Driving them about 45W each.

HLG-240H-C1400B (Constant Current 1400mA max) Cobs wired in series.
Graphics shows that Meanwell H-models give the best efficiency near the 100% capacity (230V).

100Kohm potentiometer. Can this be a problem? Do I need to go parallel or series with setup like this.

What board members think, anything to change? 250W might be too little for 3.5x3.5 feet area.
5 x 1212 is pretty much only thing that must be locked in.

But this here is a CV/CC driver for parallel wiring, recognizable by the last few digits.
The CC power supplies have basically a C and the number behind it stands for the max. current, yours is C1400, what stands for max. 1400mA.
The CV(constant voltage) driver have no C and the last digits stand for the voltage, here 20 for 20V
"A" means dimmable 50-100% via built-in poti's, "B" means dimmable 10-100% via resistor(100k poti), PWM or 1-10V.

CobKits · Nov 1, 2017

when the constant current drivers like -C1400 also have A versions but they only have adjustable voltage not current

Randomblame · Nov 1, 2017

CobKits said:
when the constant current drivers like -C1400 also have A versions but they only have adjustable voltage not current

Hmm!? Are you sure?
C1400A has built-in "current" poti(50-100%), C1400B external dimming 10-100% or 0-100% for the bigger ones.
See screenie below: current adj. range

Randomblame · Nov 1, 2017

You mean the A-version of the CV / CC driver, here only the A-version has a voltage poti, the B-version has a fixed voltage. See: voltage adj. range and *6.

But comfort you, it's confusing and your head is certainly full of all that stuff....

Is this 1818 better than 1212? | Longer timescale efficiency questions.

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