CXB3590 versus Quantum Boards

[MonkeyPickAss]

is that a DIY light? looks nice. total cost?

It cost me like $340 for a new in box 200w timber 3590 kit from eBay and whatever the quantum board cost me and like $20 in parts to put it all together. I have 2 more Vero 29s coming for the open spots next to the quantum board Which was like $140.

 

[Sanitas Vibrationum]

Actually I can harvest 1.4/1.6gr per watt with my Cree growlight... the question is can I harvest 1.8gr/2gr per watt with samsung chips... can I harvest 2.2gr/2.5gr per watt with the next generation of samsung chips... and within 2/3 years can I harvest 3gr per watt with the next-next generation of samsung chips!!? where is the end!?

Your logic is little bit way too optimistic...

 

[PilouPilou]

Your logic is little bit way too optimistic...

It is voluntary to point out the stupidity of the umol war! Everytime a new light/chips is launched pple think they can have better results... but in fact they have not! Actually we replace 1000W HPS by around 700W of COB and it's a very good thing.. but if one day someone prove me that I can replace 1000W HPS by 500W for me it will be a real evolution.. for the moment I don't see a real and useful evolution with the QB... IMO it looks like more a commercial thing than a usefull thing.. but it's just my opinion.. maybe I'm wrong because I have not tested it.

 

[visajoe1]

View attachment 3960876 I went with both for my 4x2. I am happy with both up to this point.

dope light!

 

[Impulous]

Your logic is little bit way too optimistic...

Well I mean theoretically speaking efficiency is limited strictly by physics. so as long as you're losing energy in the form of heat in the conversion between electricity and light you are not at the maximum theoretical efficiency technology could - potentially one day provide. For example, what if we develop a perfect room temperature superconductor?

I suppose for questions like "Where does it stop?!" ..... lossless conversion of electricity to light energy I suppose, would be the theoretical limit of technology.

 

[nfhiggs]

Well I mean theoretically speaking efficiency is limited strictly by physics. so as long as you're losing energy in the form of heat in the conversion between electricity and light you are not at the maximum theoretical efficiency technology could - potentially one day provide. For example, what if we develop a perfect room temperature superconductor?

I suppose for questions like "Where does it stop?!" ..... lossless conversion of electricity to light energy I suppose, would be the theoretical limit of technology.

Just cool those diodes down to about 10 degrees kelvin... Should be doable, right?

 

[Impulous]

Just cool those diodes down to about 10 degrees kelvin... Should be doable, right?

Look man, Airgas is already enough of a pain in the ass, I am totally not stocking liquid helium at the grow shop for you.

 

[nfhiggs]

Look man, Airgas is already enough of a pain in the ass, I am totally not stocking liquid helium at the grow shop for you.

Just think - a neodymium magnet in the bottoms of your pots and you could mag-lev the lights! No hangers needed!

 

[Impulous]

Just think - a neodymium magnet in the bottoms of your pots and you could mag-lev the lights! No hangers needed!

He says sarcastically - pressing magic buttons on the lightning box that shares his thoughts with the world.

All kidding aside - I picked up four quantum boards recently and I'm basically slapping together a knockoff HLG550 to test drive. I think LED tech is there, but the confusion is largely because - most companies producing these products invest heavily in the current thing, and want to keep hocking that crap long after it's obsolete.

I work every day in a grow shop and we do sell, LEDS that should come with instructions on VHS and a free walkman. You have to know, more than the average consumer or the average grower, to understand what you're even looking at with an LED. Companies like Bloomboss get away with bragging about their tech because people are illiterate in this respect, and don't understand things like efficacy or umols.

I actually got my start growing with HPS of course, but I'm experimenting with these because, I'm a pretty technical guy.... and I understand the answer to "Which computer should I buy, Dell or HP?" is "Build your own and get better for less, jackass" So I'm gonna give, the latest thing the top geeks I could spot in this rabble of bro-science are on, a shot.

Excited to give LED a whirl, I think it'll pleasantly surprise me if I have it right.

 

[CobKits]

I think LED tech is there,

its been there for a while

but the confusion is largely because - most companies producing these products invest heavily in the current thing, and want to keep hocking that crap long after it's obsolete.

not necessarily. more like there is a major dichotomy between manufacturers who understand and promote efficiency and those who understand that promising the moon regardless of the reality of your claims sells a shitload of lights (for awhile)

You have to know, more than the average consumer or the average grower, to understand what you're even looking at with an LED.

really not any different than understanding the nuances of HID. it was not that long ago that you couldnt even mention what you were growing and the shops would offer zero tech support, it was on you to know the light intensity, temperature, cooling, etc. your crop required. It wasnt long before that the internet didnt exist and you had to bribe your non-growing buddy with weed to ship an Ed Rosenthal/Mel Frank/Jorge book to his house instead of your house with the garden.

Excited to give LED a whirl, I think it'll pleasantly surprise me if I have it right.

i have yet to see a competent experienced grower disappointed with the current tech. welcome aboard!

 

[Impulous]

its been there for a while


not necessarily. more like there is a major dichotomy between manufacturers who understand and promote efficiency and those who understand that promising the moon regardless of the reality of your claims sells a shitload of lights (for awhile)


really not any different than understanding the nuances of HID. it was not that long ago that you couldnt even mention what you were growing and the shops would offer zero tech support, it was on you to know the light intensity, temperature, cooling, etc. your crop required. It wasnt long before that the internet didnt exist and you had to bribe your non-growing buddy with weed to ship an Ed Rosenthal/Mel Frank/Jorge book to his house instead of your house with the garden.


i have yet to see a competent experienced grower disappointed with the current tech. welcome aboard!

Honestly, as someone who works in a bigass hydro store. I can say, these reps like the bloomboss guy will come in, they don't know their product for shit, and they're hocking something, vastly overpriced, and massively outdated. Like, if you work, in that industry, you should know your product and competing products, I know most sales reps just want their money, I kicked major ass at phone sales and I knew exactly how each company sucked, including whichever one I was employed at in the moment. You have to know, your product. For me to see, someone charging 600+ dollars for a blurple 3 watt lensed diode panel that went out of fashion, several advances in technology ago, is like seeing a Pentium 4 on sale today for a thousand dollars.

People in my experience fall into a few categories. The rarest are people who - want to learn, research things like PPFD and DIY builds, or what's current in technology, and at least buy - a modern fixture.... then there are the majority of interested people who walk into a shop or go online and they just want someone to tell them what the best thing is. They buy anything you tell them to, even if it's garbage, because they haven't grown before, and are just interested in buying "The best one" or - conversely, the cheapest one (I saw these vipra spectras on amazon and they're 1.21 jiggawatts for a dollar!" - then you have the people who are HID growers, that have just seen a buncha mars hydro grows and they still don't believe anything good is out there, because of all the crappy results they've seen.

Personally, I think it's like anything - you have people who want to learn it and do it well, who understand the technology they want to use, and people who want a magic solution to everything in the form of "Just buy this" or "Just water this often" or "Feed exactly this" - and they don't understand that you can do anything well, you just have to.... you know, take the time to learn to do it well.

 

[CobKits]

you can do anything well, you just have to.... you know, take the time to learn to do it well.

I just printed this and framed it and hung it on the wall

 

[VegasWinner]

I'm in the same boat, except I need a light for a 2x2 grow tent. So I'd imagine the quantum boards would allow me to get more height out of my setup, because they can be closer to the canopy, and take less space compared to the cree cobs with that huge cooliance heatsink... it's about the same price give or take, thing is the cree's have a track record sort off, and I'm too scared to pull the trigger on 2 Quantum boards (Should i get 3000k x2 ?)
Other then the fact these can be closer to the canopy, I don't know... I suspect that perhaps the cree cobs have more light penetration, it's more focused ? but It's just a guess. maybe being more evenly spread out across an actual board is better lol

Check olut GrowGreen 200w board covers a 2x2 real easy and a single HLG-185H-C1050B driver. check out my thread on the two channel board or DM mew for more info with web site link

 

[Dave455]

Check olut GrowGreen 200w board covers a 2x2 real easy and a single HLG-185H-C1050B driver. check out my thread on the two channel board or DM mew for more info with web site link

I thought the new QB's and other Samsung diode boards could be used at 30 watts per/sq ?
The 200 watts for 2x2 would be 50 per sq./ft. unless running dimmed ?

 

[benniehanas]

Quick question on canopy penetration, but specific to cobs. If using a 50 volt cob, and running it at 50 Watts compared to 75 Watts, how much deeper would the higher wattage draw penetrate? Leaning towards citizen 1818 and running them at 75 Watts each. I'm building for a 5x5 and we'll run 13 of them. What I'm thinking is penetration will be better with 13 ran at 75 Watts compared to 20 ran at 50 Watts

 

[nmibud]

I have to run my 1818's at about 75% or they burn the plants .4 1818 90 cri 3000k on hlg 240h 1050b.Be carefull!

 

[Chopntrvp]

Right now I'm in a similar position, although I have yet to pull the trigger on either cobs or quantum boards. Looking at it purely from an efficiency (ratio of light to heat) perspective, it would seem that softly driven QBs have a similar efficiency to softly driven cbx3590s.

After that, looking at cost, one QB seems to be similar or slightly lower in cost to two cbx3590s driven at similar light levels when you include a passive heat sink, driver and mounting hardware.

From my noob perspective, the QBs seem to more closely mimic how the sun actually works, e.g., more even distribution of light across the grow space, vs. cobs, which are more like point sources.

The question that seems to be as of yet unanswered is will the QBs have the same useable life cycle as the cbx3590s, which appear to have established a track record for being reliable.

And If the potency is the same without ir or uv.

 

[skoomd]

Quick question on canopy penetration, but specific to cobs. If using a 50 volt cob, and running it at 50 Watts compared to 75 Watts, how much deeper would the higher wattage draw penetrate? Leaning towards citizen 1818 and running them at 75 Watts each. I'm building for a 5x5 and we'll run 13 of them. What I'm thinking is penetration will be better with 13 ran at 75 Watts compared to 20 ran at 50 Watts

20 ran at 50 watts will provide significantly better penetration than 13 at 75 watts. Individual intensity of the light sources is not what makes for penetration. Penetration is based SOLEY off of how diffused the light is (more cobs + spread out = more diffused) and how low wattage each light source is, because the plant can grow much closer to them without burning.

COBs have shitty penetration compared to QBs. And it makes it much easier for them to bleach since the canopy gets all the photons and underneath is shaded out. And it also means lower on average yields because a plant getting equal light all over can photosynthesize much more efficiently than one getting blasted on the tops and get nothing underneath. Also means even growth.

This is 20x citizen clu048 cobs @ 1000 watts in a 4x8. 50 watts a cob. Guy ended up with really bad light stress and some bleaching. 31w per square foot. Notice the horrible canopy penetration?

This is 18x QB304s quantum boards @ 1500w in a 4x8 tent. 75 watts a QB. Absolutely no bleaching and he had some colas get as close as 4" from the 75w QBs. 46w per square foot. Notice how much better the canopy penetration is? The extra 500 watts is part of the reason, but the fact he cant even get bleaching 4" from a 75W QB at 46w a square foot is proof it's really decent.

 

[Chopntrvp]

20 ran at 50 watts will provide significantly better penetration than 13 at 75 watts. Individual intensity of the light sources is not what makes for penetration. Penetration is based SOLEY off of how diffused the light is (more cobs + spread out = more diffused) and how low wattage each light source is, because the plant can grow much closer to them without burning.

COBs have shitty penetration compared to QBs. And it makes it much easier for them to bleach since the canopy gets all the photons and underneath is shaded out. And it also means lower on average yields because a plant getting equal light all over can photosynthesize much more efficiently than one getting blasted on the tops and get nothing underneath. Also means even growth.

This is 20x citizen clu048 cobs @ 1000 watts in a 4x8. 50 watts a cob. Guy ended up with really bad light stress and some bleaching. 31w per square foot. Notice the horrible canopy penetration?

This is 18x QB304s quantum boards @ 1500w in a 4x8 tent. 75 watts a QB. Absolutely no bleaching and he had some colas get as close as 4" from the 75w QBs. 46w per square foot. Notice how much better the canopy penetration is? The extra 500 watts is part of the reason, but the fact he cant even get bleaching 4" from a 75W QB at 46w a square foot is proof it's really decent.

To be fair tho the plants under the cobs do look alot bigger hence the lesser lower light..

 

[skoomd]

To be fair tho the plants under the cobs do look alot bigger hence the lesser lower light..

The quantum board grower actually keeps the lights 8-12" usually. He was just moving stuff around and put a second scrog net so he raised it in the pic.

So that's 46w a square foot. That's a fuckload of light. Easily over 1000w PPFD at 12". So to make a good comparison, here's a COB grow at 50 watts per square foot. 16x CXA3070 COBs @ 50 watts per COB in a 4x4 tent. These COBs are hung much higher too.

As you can see, very uneven growth (strain differences aside... each plant is uneven so) and he just cooked the plants.Bleaching of course, and as you can see a shitload of light burned leaves. He pulled 340 grams lol.

Keep in mind that's 16 cobs in a 4x4. The other is 18 QBs in a 4x8. So it's about twice as many light sources per square foot, which should be much more uniform. But COBs just can't even compare with strips/QBs for that.


Check out this pic from the same grow a bit earlier in flower. LOL ZERO penetration from 16 cobs in a 4x4 tent. And again, very uneven growth.