Breeding store bought hybrids x store bought hybrids.. self them first ?or..cross them?

[catatac]

ok. so for example... I wonder if when white widow was created they just took brazilian sativa (f) X south indian indica (m) creating an f1 with no further breading. in which case i would be interested perhaps in selfing the plant to reach f2... but if the plants been somehow bread true..then the selfing would be a waste of time i think. so the crux of my question is that ive got several hybrids like blueberry, jack herer, white widow, and critical. should i self them first? to reach f2 max diversity and pick out my winners for later breeding, or do i cross them first assuming selfing is a waste of time? thoughts. also, ive searched around and im wondering if it might not be usefull to breed with ONLY females? using colloidal silver.. other thoughts are should i cross my 4 hybrid types to create double crosses and then cross those X eachother... for and 8 parent cross f1 if you will.. then self those for the f2 max diversity group and select from those for winners for clone and future breeding, backcrossing. am i off the rails . do you have better ideas? i've got a micro environment , special set up.... looking to find something special moving forward to fit my style. thoughts. thanks

 

[SchmoeJoe]

ok. so for example... I wonder if when white widow was created they just took brazilian sativa (f) X south indian indica (m) creating an f1 with no further breading. in which case i would be interested perhaps in selfing the plant to reach f2... but if the plants been somehow bread true..then the selfing would be a waste of time i think. so the crux of my question is that ive got several hybrids like blueberry, jack herer, white widow, and critical. should i self them first? to reach f2 max diversity and pick out my winners for later breeding, or do i cross them first assuming selfing is a waste of time? thoughts. also, ive searched around and im wondering if it might not be usefull to breed with ONLY females? using colloidal silver.. other thoughts are should i cross my 4 hybrid types to create double crosses and then cross those X eachother... for and 8 parent cross f1 if you will.. then self those for the f2 max diversity group and select from those for winners for clone and future breeding, backcrossing. am i off the rails . do you have better ideas? i've got a micro environment , special set up.... looking to find something special moving forward to fit my style. thoughts. thanks

Selfing an f1 doesn't make an f2.

 

[catatac]

1-ummm...what will selfing the f1 (lets say seedsman white widow fem) give me.. not clone.. its damn close to f2 IMUO (in my uniformed opinion) . how should i think about it? what if i self the f1 then corss s1 seeds for an f2/S2?
2-i can def reach f2 by crossing 2 seeds of "seedsman white widow fem" though right?....
3-i can breed with female only plants right? (using colloidal siver of course)
thanks for the reply!

 

[chemphlegm]

first do you have an air conditioner, heat, dehumidifier, c02 generator, hid lighting, air scrubber and an IPM plan?

 

[catatac]

first do you have an air conditioner, heat, dehumidifier, c02 generator, hid lighting, air scrubber and an IPM plan?

yawn

 

[SchmoeJoe]

whats all that for?

You don't have to have a fully sealed and climate controlled space. A light and a filtered exhaust is about the minimum requirement.

 

[catatac]

You don't have to have a fully sealed and climate controlled space. A light and a filtered exhaust is about the minimum requirement.

i was being a smart ass.... im all good on the technicalities ... I need to straighten out my understanding of the gentics portion

 

[SchmoeJoe]

1-ummm...what will selfing the f1 (lets say seedsman white widow fem) give me.. not clone.. its damn close to f2 IMUO (in my uniformed opinion) . how should i think about it? what if i self the f1 then corss s1 seeds for an f2/S2?
2-i can def reach f2 by crossing 2 seeds of "seedsman white widow fem" though right?....
3-i can breed with female only plants right? (using colloidal siver of course)
thanks for the reply!

Selfing a plant is hardly any different than cloning because of how limited the gene pool is. If you really want to properly breed a line then you'd need to be able to grow out enough different plants to choose the ones that have the traits you're looking for so that you could take seed from them over repeated generations to make those traits consistent in the gene pool until you have a legitimately stable strain.

 

[catatac]

1-ummm...what will selfing the f1 (lets say seedsman white widow fem) give me.. not clone.. its damn close to f2 IMUO (in my uniformed opinion) . how should i think about it? what if i self the f1 then corss s1 seeds for an f2/S2?
2-i can def reach f2 by crossing 2 seeds of "seedsman white widow fem" though right?....
3-i can breed with female only plants right? (using colloidal siver of course)
thanks for the reply!

 

[catatac]

Selfing a plant is hardly any different than cloning because of how limited the gene pool is. If you really want to properly breed a line then you'd need to be able to grow out enough different plants to choose the ones that have the traits you're looking for so that you could take seed from them over repeated generations to make those traits consistent in the gene pool until you have a legitimately stable strain.

robert Clark's "marijuana botany" says.... many growers fail to recognize their f1 plants potiential because they fail to cross or self pollinate the f1 offspring. page70

 

[catatac]

any recesive or not true breeding traits will express from the f1 selfing.. they are not clones IMUO

 

[catatac]

im also curious why breeders don't breed with only female plants... using colloidal silver , rather than stress to produce xx polen. that way you're never guessing about a male and its qualitites and your plants are always female. if you must ...bread in a real male at any time for regular seeds

 

[Observe & Report]

im also curious why breeders don't breed with only female plants... using colloidal silver , rather than stress to produce xx polen. that way you're never guessing about a male and its qualitites and your plants are always female. if you must ...bread in a real male at any time for regular seeds

Mostly ignorance, just listen to some of the interviews with breeders on the Potty McPotface's Pot Cast on Soundcloud. Lots of customers have similar prejudices against breeding with females so in some cases it is a conscious choice by the breeder or seed bank to cater to the market.

There are different substances that will reverse males and have them produce some female flowers and some reg-only breeders do this, like Archive. How much this tells you about what female flower traits the male is carrying is questionable, because I think the male produces some mutant flowers and not big beautiful buds. It's gotta be better than the popular structure-and-stem-rub method, though.

Also, the pros don't use colloidal silver, silver thiosulfate works much better.

 

[catatac]

Also, the pros don't use colloidal silver, silver thiosulfate works much better.

very nice

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

im also curious why breeders don't breed with only female plants... using colloidal silver , rather than stress to produce xx polen. that way you're never guessing about a male and its qualitites and your plants are always female. if you must ...bread in a real male at any time for regular seeds

There have used STS rather than colloidal silver to breed fems since the late 1990's.

And many breeders only use females.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

Mostly ignorance, just listen to some of the interviews with breeders on the Potty McPotface's Pot Cast on Soundcloud. Lots of customers have similar prejudices against breeding with females so in some cases it is a conscious choice by the breeder or seed bank to cater to the market.

There are different substances that will reverse males and have them produce some female flowers and some reg-only breeders do this, like Archive. How much this tells you about what female flower traits the male is carrying is questionable, because I think the male produces some mutant flowers and not big beautiful buds. It's gotta be better than the popular structure-and-stem-rub method, though.

Also, the pros don't use colloidal silver, silver thiosulfate works much better.

You beat me to the STS answer

 

[catatac]

There have used STS rather than colloidal silver to breed fems since the late 1990's.

And many breeders only use females.

Thank you sir

 

[SchmoeJoe]

any recesive or not true breeding traits will express from the f1 selfing.. they are not clones IMUO

I never said it was cloning.

 

[SchmoeJoe]

im also curious why breeders don't breed with only female plants... using colloidal silver , rather than stress to produce xx polen. that way you're never guessing about a male and its qualitites and your plants are always female. if you must ...bread in a real male at any time for regular seeds

Stress induced hermaphrodites are carriers of the hermaphrodite gene and will pass it to the offspring. You can't just breed in a male for regular seeds if the plant was fem only. The new seeds would be an f1 and not a true breeding strain.

 

[catatac]

Selfing a plant is hardly any different than cloning.

other than youv'e got seed and they aren't clones... which takes me to my next point

Stress induced hermaphrodites are carriers of the hermaphrodite gene and will pass it to the offspring. You can't just breed in a male for regular seeds if the plant was fem only. The new seeds would be an f1 and not a true breeding strain.

no duh. and who said i needed true breeding? thanks...