Adding deep & far reds to Quantum Board build

Toohighmf

Toohighmf

Well-Known Member
im working on this project for a client that wants his own “brand” of lighting for his ultra modular-efficient grow rooms we designed/built him. While I don’t really think there’s very much to improve upon the qb we are using, the client wants more. I think adding some small deep or far reds and boosting from 510 to about 600w could be nice starting point. Maybe overdriving to 550 and adding another 100w worth of deep and far red to 650w would be ideal. Any ideas of what small cob chips to use or drivers, led experts?
 
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VegasWinner

Well-Known Member
I would look into Lumileds luxeon SunPlus series. They have deep red far red lime for some nice color addition. Stevesleds has some stars on sale for $2/ea for testing.
I use the deep red far red and royal blue as additional spectrum using LM561C diodes with GG boards
 
Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
If you want the best possible efficiency, there is no way around and you have to use either Cree's or Osram LED's. These would be either Cree XP-E HE, 660nm, top bin (C01) or Osram Oslon SSL120, 657nm, top bin (horticulture or S3S4), 57% effiency at 350mA.
You can already find the Cree top bins for $2...(that's according to the seller
XPEEPR-L1-P3-29-C and means 425mW@350mA, 655-665nm)
They are mounted to 20mm stars but the seller recently also had strips with 12 diodes (4S3P), 8,4-10v/350-1000mA.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/10x-Cree-XPE-Photo-Red-660nm-High-Efficiency-LED-Light-2-1V-2-5V-350mA-1000mA/222637521547?hash=item33d63afa8b:g:ZWQAAOSwlEdZsT-L
 
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dannykay

dannykay

Well-Known Member
I'm in a similar search currently, a friend just ordered a few 12 x cree xp e photo red/far red strips, I'm going to test some on my QB+cobs rig.

Whats the photo red/far red ratio that you are planning? (Or a recommendation for one?)
Am I currently assuming that you are planning to use this for the Emerson effect by having them both on during day time? Are you planning to hook up any controllers for those channels in your setup?

Thanks
Danny.
 
Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
Hmm! The Emerson Effect does only have small impact at usually high intensity levels between 800 and 1000μMol/s. I've used 30% additional deep red and it was too much for my taste.
It has an effect on the riepening like far red and can be used for shortening the flowering cycle but most of the time this goes hand in hand with less yields. If necessary, you have to compensate for this with a slightly higher DLI.
I'll not use it anymore, only far red for end of day treatment.
If I want more red I would use CRI90 or spectra below 2000°K. It has been shown that they have just the right amounts of deep and far red thus plants benefit from.
Some CRI80 vs. CRI90 threads I would recommend to read, eg. from @The Dawg
You might be impressed how well these work and in your case I would recommend trying to get some efficient CRI90 strips instead of trying to find the correct amount of both colors to get the same effect.
 
Rokus

Rokus

Active Member
Maybe only use extra deep reds only if you also add blue and UVA?
I made the same 'mistake' here, I doubled up on my cobs with 3500K 90cri cobs to expand my system, half the amps and get better spread. I could have left it with that.

But instead I went overboard with 3 extra channels: Deep red, blue+UVA and Far red......
Well in some stages of growth it could be really helpfull to have those 3 extra channels on a separate timer and dimmer, for instance red helps with rooting doesn't it?
And deep blue and or uva helps with getting more frost so, if you like turning knobs, writing light recepies.. But if I look at chilled don't know how Vitali came up with a red to white ratio as high as is, but it wasn't while growing cannabis, or was it?

One day I wake up happy with my disco light setup, which has yet to be tested, the other day I think it's pure overkill.....
But then again on my last grow where I only had 3500K 80cri mixed with some 4000K 80cri, the plant seemed to take forever to finish, up to the point I had to proceed to harvest, because the buds got too big and some cases of budrot started appearing.
If I had a deep red boost a little earlier I would still be able to finish cloudy, but now I have hade to cure them with mostly clear trichs.

I believe we can benefit form the extras but yes you have to be subtle it's very easy to overdo it. And with bigger professional setups I really don't think its worth it to work with 3 extra channels, in that case I would just put all the colour on one extra channel to not overcomplicate it, but I would also calculate how much blue vs red I need and then just live with that 1 extra dimmer knob.
Because I don't know if you are really gonna see much difference if you start the day with only red added and later the blue, it's sort of like the decadence which in the end could only cost you bud instead of gaining you quality, and possibly distracting you from getting a consistent run.
You can also get hermies btw..

It's the best toy but also a tricky one

my 2 cents worth
 
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A

augusto1

Well-Known Member
Randomblame said:
Hmm! The Emerson Effect does only have small impact at usually high intensity levels between 800 and 1000μMol/s. I've used 30% additional deep red and it was too much for my taste.
It has an effect on the riepening like far red and can be used for shortening the flowering cycle but most of the time this goes hand in hand with less yields. If necessary, you have to compensate for this with a slightly higher DLI.
I'll not use it anymore, only far red for end of day treatment.
If I want more red I would use CRI90 or spectra below 2000°K. It has been shown that they have just the right amounts of deep and far red thus plants benefit from.
Some CRI80 vs. CRI90 threads I would recommend to read, eg. from @The Dawg
You might be impressed how well these work and in your case I would recommend trying to get some efficient CRI90 strips instead of trying to find the correct amount of both colors to get the same effect.
Click to expand...
Which CRI90 strips would you use? Thanks in advance.
 
Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
augusto1 said:
Which CRI90 strips would you use? Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Samsung M-Series, gen.2 is available in CRI90 but is a bit outdatet with 110lm/w for a 3500°k strip. I'm pretty sure there are better strips when you search for.
Digikey should have also CRI90 strips and there are a few chinese sellers like Mufue, Hanison and others make the fake qboards and stripes with LM561c and also offer CRI90. Maybe I'll get some myself or mix in some smaller CRI90 COB's, eg. Bridgelux V18's, Citi1212 or Luminus CXM22. All those are small enough to mount them on alu c-channels.
I have also seen some interesting "fresh-meat strips" for butchers on Alibaba/e3ay with 1850°k. They provide a similar spectrum as Bridgelux's Food Series 1750°K COB's, but probably only use Epistar or Sanan chips.

There are many ways to get more red/far-red..
 

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Toohighmf

Toohighmf

Well-Known Member
Thanks all for the replies. Apologies for taking so long to get back to this. Some other aspects of this project superseded the light for now (since I have 9x HLG-550's to R&D the first 'tainer) but we're back at it. Honestly, the only reason I'm asking on here is because I'm finally a noob to something related to growing, and some of you have been dialing in LED's for a while now. I bought super red hortilux bulbs and grew pot. My expertise definitely isn't in the lighting dept. My partner does event production services as his full time gig and uses DMX controls/protocalls that he designs himself. I personally don't see a need for the added BS when it appears that QB's do enough on their own to produce beautiful, big buds, but the client wants a gimmick. If we can utilize DMX controls/protocalls as a gimmick that actually works (affordably), I'm fine with it. These lights will only be used during transpiration cycles. We like to keep the dark, dark! (with the exception of green light should we need to enter during respiration cycles.

All that being said, I would like to keep the controllable aspects as simple as possible, and try to keep to as few different colored diodes as possible as well. I'm thinking deep and far red, as well as royal and deep blue. UVA/B seems to wreak havoc on certain strains and I don't want to go there unless there is a happy medium with them where we won't risk crop damage. I would like to use small COBs but not dead set on them. What percentage of these various colors should I be using over 625w (4x QB-304's or 6 QB 304'S? I'm not a proponent of faster ripening, but definitely of weight and trich production. Thanks again!
 
Toohighmf

Toohighmf

Well-Known Member
I guess to simplify what I’m
Trying to achieve would be to maybe ask a little more directly. With 4 QB304’s how many deep, far red & royal, deep blue cobs would you use? And if you were to build a 6x QB, how many? Drivers?
Thank you very much!
 
welight

welight

Well-Known Member
Toohighmf said:
I guess to simplify what I’m
Trying to achieve would be to maybe ask a little more directly. With 4 QB304’s how many deep, far red & royal, deep blue cobs would you use? And if you were to build a 6x QB, how many? Drivers?
Thank you very much!
Click to expand...
what wavelength do you mean by Deep Blue?
We have 6 up linear with Cree Deep(HE),Far, royal blue and Semileds violets

Cheers
Mark
 
Budzbuddha

Budzbuddha

Well-Known Member
Toohighmf said:
I guess to simplify what I’m
Trying to achieve would be to maybe ask a little more directly. With 4 QB304’s how many deep, far red & royal, deep blue cobs would you use? And if you were to build a 6x QB, how many? Drivers?
Thank you very much!
Click to expand...
For an example ... Use multi spec QBS ( mix 5000k/3500/3000/2700 ) this will provide more blue and red TOGETHER on SAME Slate HEATSINK. This way there is limited modifications to original rig.

No need for gimmicks
 
Budzbuddha

Budzbuddha

Well-Known Member
I use 630-660 nm SUPPLEMENTAL Deep red G8 lights as a " dusk time " initiator .

15-30 min after main rig powers off , timer actuated G8 into light cycle , then lights off and deep red for a few. Let's the girls know it's sleepy time.

image.jpeg

The color is much more intense than pics show. ( 630 - 660 NM )

image.jpeg
 
Toohighmf

Toohighmf

Well-Known Member
Budzbuddha said:
For an example ... Use multi spec QBS ( mix 5000k/3500/3000/2700 ) this will provide more blue and red TOGETHER on SAME Slate HEATSINK. This way there is limited modifications to original rig.

No need for gimmicks
Click to expand...
They want to DMX control some beneficial spectra to existing 80% 3000k QB’s but these multi spec sound QBs kinda cool if they’re spitting out a ton of the right light.
I actually like the idea of a DMX controlled unit with a bunch of preset scenes that could be timed to run a dawn til dusk program, or totally programmable to by the end user.

Which brings me full circle to my query as to how much royal blue, deep & far red do I add to 4x & 6x QB304 fixtures. Also and recs for drivers would be awesome too. Thanks!
 
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