Can a light get too efficient

[PurpleBuz]

You do not grow or own a light.
Off switch activated.
Sorry, I can no longer participate. (Hybridway 2016)

seems that...these kind of mesages reaches you several times a year .........why ?
In this case...are you shure to have any clue about watercooled led light ?
Then show your pics,
give an argument...or shut up and leave your snotty glue in the bigmouth.

dude if you don't have any real test data showing life expectancy then don't try to say so
all of the cheap chinese leds I have used have burned out. I have been through many of them and regretted the decision to buy any of the Chinese no name shit.

so fo

 

[mahiluana]

[QUOTE="PurpleBuz, post: 14081177, member: 509780"
leds I have used have burned out.[/QUOTE]

so let`s say you are an expert in longlife and heat management !

 

[GrowLightResearch]

ok I missed that , what about the Chinese cob ? and bridgelux meat chip?

The Luxeon and Bridgelux are nearly identical.
I do not care to know about any Chinese chip.
I like the Luxeon and Bridgelux meat chip spectrum. You got it right.

I'm not a big fan of PPD or CoBs. If a datasheet looks interesting, I buy some and measure the PPFD.

The numbers you posted for the Phillips Deep Red and OSRAM are skewed. I have used both in strips I have manufactured. The OSRAM Hyper Red and Cree Photo Red both beat Luxeon Rebel Deep Red. Today OSRAM beats Cree.

This is the Décor Food Meat & Deli Vero 18 measured irradiance/PPFD which is very close to the Luxeon Red Meat.

For me, this one picture tells nearly all I need to know. Near perfect spectrum for a CoB.




For Chinese, these look interesting. Fucked up company but interesting approach.
http://www.econoluxindustries.com/Products/Products.html

 

[PurpleBuz]

Near perfect spectrum for a CoB.

Based on what criteria? its nothing like sunlight nor is it anything like the McCree RQE.
I am looking at these deep red phosphor chips as a supplemental to fill out the red end of the McCree action spectrum with standard 3000K 80 cri chips or strips as my primary lighting.

I have worked with heavy deep red spectrums with generally bad experiences. Poor penetration, bleaching and excessive stretching. But it will grow lettuce!

 

[GrowLightResearch]

its nothing like sunlight nor is it anything like the McCree RQE.

I do not give a fuck about the sun spectrum. It is not the ideal spectrum either. No matter what the charlatan vendors say. They are frauds and liars.

Enough about McCree. That was 50 years ago. RQE is not applicable. Drop it. No one understands what it means anyhow.

anything like the McCree RQE.

You LED spectrum is NOT supposed to look like RQE. No matter what the charlatan vendors say. They are frauds and liars.

I have worked with heavy deep red spectrums with generally bad experiences.

You were doing something wrong. Chinese LEDs?
I thought you said you liked meat CoBs. Deep red spectrum with just enough blue.

I asked Dr. Thomas Colquhoun, the lead LED research professor at the University of Florida, What spectrum is the best for growing plants? He replied they have had the best results with Deep Blue and Deep Red.

Penetration is a balance between height and intensity. Intra-canopy and side lighting are options.

excessive stretching.

Not enough intensity and or poor spectrum as seedlings. You do not want any red when they are seedlings.

But it will grow lettuce!

Lettuce grows very well under florescent tubes.

Based on what criteria?

A nice wide peak at 635 nm.

This is a great simple representation of spectrum. From 1882.

 

[wietefras]

Enough about McCree. That was 50 years ago. RQE is not applicable. Drop it.

Yet again proof that whatever claims this "researcher" makes, the opposite is true.

No one understands what it means anyhow.

You are really the only one here who doesn't understand it. What's there to "understand" anyway? It's just a given corroborated by other (actual) researchers over and over. It shows that, contrary to the lies of the charlatans pushing Chlorophyll action spectrum, plants DO use green light for photosynthesis.

I asked Dr. Thomas Colquhoun, the lead LED research professor at the University of Florida, What spectrum is the best for growing plants? He replied they have had the best results with Deep Blue and Deep Red.

Just like McCree charts show. Although real growths have also shown this produces sickly plants for most plant species.

Penetration is a balance between height and intensity.

Oh and for more comedy on this subject, I urge you guys too look up his chart showing that you get better "penetration" when you hang your light at 40". It's truly amazing. The utter lack of logical reasoning needed to come up with something like that is just mind boggling.

This charlatan demonstrates (incorrectly) that light pretty much disappears after 20", yet at the same time he advises people to hang their light at 40". You really can't make this stuff up.

 

[Olive Drab Green]

10 pages and a week later, this is still going on.

 

[OneHitDone]

Lettuce grows very well under florescent tubes.

I would agree strongly with that statement.
Would you have any direction you could offer for LED spectrum that will produce lettuce with no abnormalities in growth?
If so it would be great to have your input over in the lettuce growing thread

https://www.rollitup.org/t/all-cob-users-lettuce-grow-challenge.905662/

 

[Cold$moke]

I grew fire with t5s for a couple years as long as your not trying to get huge buds

 

[alesh]

For the Luxeon Fresh Focus Red Meat L2C5-RM001211E1900
43,610 lumens = 215 radiometric watts = 1120 µmol/m²/s PPFD.

You probably meant lux - W/m² - µmol/m²/s.
Anyway:
=> LER = 43610 lux / 215 W/m² = 202.84 lm/W
QER = 1120 µmol/m²/s / 215 W/m² = 5.209 µmol/J

The following graphs were created from the attached CSV txt files.
The values were measured with a spectrometer with a calibration traceable to NIST.
The LuxeonFreshFocusRedMeat215Watts.txt can be copy and pasted into @alesh Math Behind spreadsheet.
When I imported the actual measured watts into the Math Behind spreadsheet the LER = 204 and QER = 5.167

The measurements were taken about 1 minute apart with the CoB at the same height and intensity.
The graphs are normalized to the max value found in the CSV.
The CSV's contain the absolute measurements from 275 nm to 1120 nm

So the measured results are within 1% of calulated values. I like it.

A OSRAM SSL Olson Hyper Red output about 70% radiant power compared to electrical watts.

That would have to be the highest bin, right? Could it be ordered directly? But I have to say that these numbers from the data sheet are impressive.


Slightly OT: Do you guys also find the Osram website to be awful? I can't stand it.

 

[Olive Drab Green]

I grew fire with t5s for a couple years as long as your not trying to get huge buds

@RM3 works wonders with T5s. Ever seen his? Maybe he’ll be nice and awe you for a moment with his tanning booth.

 

[DankaDank]

Shit I thought 4t was there top dog. Dam that is impressive nearly 4µmol/j

Do you guys also find the Osram website to be awful? I can't stand it.

German engineered to be as complicated as possible.

 

[PurpleBuz]

I thought you said you liked meat CoBs. Deep red spectrum with just enough blue.

I am looking at meat cobs to supplement cobs or strips. The same way I currently use 660 nm deep reds.

red and blue light are absorbed by the top of the canopy, green light plus nearby cyan and yellow aren't absorbed by the leaves as well and end up transmitting and reflecting its way deeper into the canopy. I been growing full thick canopies for years and a heavy red+blue spectrum won't penetrate.

Prime example is the illumitex neosol F3 spectrum which is blue (cool white) plus deep red monos. No yellow at all and it sucks as it can't penetrate through a thick canopy.

 

[ANC]

I would agree strongly with that statement.
Would you have any direction you could offer for LED spectrum that will produce lettuce with no abnormalities in growth?
If so it would be great to have your input over in the lettuce growing thread

https://www.rollitup.org/t/all-cob-users-lettuce-grow-challenge.905662/

 

[churchhaze]

i know people say this. but in my 4x4 tent with a 600 hps and 220 cfm exhaust fan with passive intake, temps run between 85-90.

in my 2nd tent with samsung f series strips, 50 real watts per strip, 16 strips, 800 watts, 125cfm exhaust, temps run 78-80.

not even close

Learn the difference between temperature and heat.

 

[OneHitDone]

Seen that. Haven't seen anyone successful with DIY cob or QB.....
Maybe lettuce just doesn't like bare diodes and prefers a more diffuse light source?

 

[ANC]

I just think it needs much less light. Maybe a DLI of 15 or 20....

 

[GrowLightResearch]

You probably meant lux

Yes, I thought I corrected that. Hate when that happens. It happens too often. Getting old sucks, it's like my fingers and mind have a disconnect.

Could it be ordered directly?

Digikey has reels of the 2U SSL Olson 120s in stock. I may buy a reel in the next month or two.

: Do you guys also find the Osram website to be awful?

Yes, too big, horrible organization, and their search sucks.
They seem to only care about the auto industry.
They have some great white papers if you can find them.

 

[wietefras]

Digikey has reels of the 2U SSL Olson 120s in stock.

I thought the Olsons were twins

 

[GrowLightResearch]

Prime example is the illumitex neosol F3

You are sounding more like a serious grower than a hobbyist.
Canopy penetration is a huge issue in cannabis.

How do you know about your levels of transmittance, reflectance, and absorbance? Measured?

The deep red should do the best for photosynthesis. That's also where the fluorescence rates are highest and can easily be mistakenly measured as transmittance.

Do you measure the irradiance at the canopy? If so what is it? How high are the lights over the canopy?

I'm pleasantly surprised at your interest in green and yellow. I believe those spectra are important for producing cannabinoids beyond what sun light can do.

You should really look into lower intensity intra-canopy lighting.
Soon I'm going to try side lighting and keeping the canopy "thin".