Noam Chomsky on the direction of the Democratic Party

captainmorgan

captainmorgan

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
If this is honestly the biggest and most important criticism you can come up with against Bernie's candidacy then you're already a Progressive. Thanks for your support!

Name someone better and we'll be happy to consider them.

Until then, Bernie's name recognition is a far larger asset than his age is a detriment. The biggest obstacle Bernie faced during the nomination process was the press doing everything it could to ignore him and silence his message, even to extremes like pointedly not showing him addressing a jam packed stadium of tens of thousands and instead showing an empty podium where Trump was scheduled to speak... in awhile.
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You're doing a fine job of tearing down the only thing that stands between tRUmp and the GOP turning this country into a third world shit hole,do you own a MAGA hat.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
captainmorgan said:
You're doing a fine job of tearing down the only thing that stands between tRUmp and the GOP turning this country into a third world shit hole,do you own a MAGA hat.
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If you're suggesting that the Democratic Party is going to save us from the likes of Trump, I'd say we're already lost.

Why do you cling to the notion that just changing the faces is going to change anything significant? They're all bought and paid for by the same 1%, why do you think they'd listen to you?

Every Democratic administration since Carter (and likely long before) has used war or covert action for regime change in other countries, often against democratically elected governments.

Why do you think that's acceptable?

I listened to an interview of Tim Geitner, Hank Paulson and Ben Bernanke this week (Google them if the names aren't familiar) and they spent a solid hour covering each other's ass for bailing out monster banks with tax payer cash while ignoring the rapping if the middle classes, even to the point of abetting the crimes of the banksters. That happened during a Democratic administration.

Why do you cling to the idea that Democrats give a fuck about you when there are oceans of evidence to the contrary?

Just because they said so?
 
captainmorgan

captainmorgan

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
If you're suggesting that the Democratic Party is going to save us from the likes of Trump, I'd say we're already lost.

Why do you cling to the notion that just changing the faces is going to change anything significant? They're all bought and paid for by the same 1%, why do you think they'd listen to you?

Every Democratic administration since Carter (and likely long before) has used war or covert action for regime change in other countries, often against democratically elected governments.

Why do you think that's acceptable?

I listened to an interview of Tim Geitner, Hank Paulson and Ben Bernanke this week (Google them if the names aren't familiar) and they spent a solid hour covering each other's ass for bailing out monster banks with tax payer cash while ignoring the rapping if the middle classes, even to the point of abetting the crimes of the banksters. That happened during a Democratic administration.

Why do you cling to the idea that Democrats give a fuck about you when there are oceans of evidence to the contrary?

Just because they said so?
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You're no different from the right wack jobs and you're doing just what they want. When this country descends into a shit hole it won't magically be reborn into a utopia, it will remain a shit hole and will be so corrupt it will never return to it's former glory,MAGA.
 
Unclebaldrick

Unclebaldrick

Well-Known Member
captainmorgan said:
You're no different from the right wack jobs and you're doing just what they want. When this country descends into a shit hole it won't magically be reborn into a utopia, it will remain a shit hole and will be so corrupt it will never return to it's former glory,MAGA.
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Google those names if they are not familiar, he says. What an arrogant fuck.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
"Suppose people like you, the Sanders movement, offered an authentic, constructive program for real hope and change, it would win these people back," he said.

"I think many of the Trump voters could have voted for Sanders if there had been the right kind of activism and organization. and those are possibilities. It's been done in the past under much harsher circumstances."

"You should also bear in mind what a remarkable phenomenon the Sanders campaign was. Here’s somebody unknown, came from nowhere, was using words like socialism which used to be a real curse word, no corporate or media support, no support from the wealthy, everything that has been crucial to win elections."

"He could have taken it over [the Democratic party] if it hadn’t been for shenanigans that you know about," he said, perhaps alluding to the Democratic National Committee’s alleged attempts to smear the Vermont senator.

He added that there have been many advances and achievements over the past 50 to 60 years, for women’s and civil rights, for gay people and in terms of people’s efforts to counter aggression.

"That means struggles today start from a much higher plane than they did many years ago," he said.

"Even the election itself suggests major opportunities. For one thing, the Democrats had a considerable majority in the vote," he said, referring to Ms Clinton’s lead of more than 2.6 million people in the popular count.

"And if you look at younger voters, the people who will shape the future, they were overwhelmingly anti-Trump and even more overwhelmingly pro-Sanders."

It will be up to young people, he said, to lead Americans towards a "decent and civilised world".


Independent
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While I don't put much faith in opinion polls, you do. Opinion polls show that Bernie would not have won in the 2016 election and will probably lose to Trump in 2020 if he runs.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
While I don't put much faith in opinion polls, you do. Opinion polls show that Bernie would not have won in the 2016 election and will probably lose to Trump in 2020 if he runs.
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Only the ones that back your points, I've noticed.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
captainmorgan said:
You're no different from the right wack jobs and you're doing just what they want. When this country descends into a shit hole it won't magically be reborn into a utopia, it will remain a shit hole and will be so corrupt it will never return to it's former glory,MAGA.
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When you can show me that the Democratic Party is working for my interests, I'll vote for them.

Whining about how they deserve my vote without working to earn it is how the Chump got elected.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Chomsky also said voting for Clinton was the best choice in 2016 general election.

He also says in many, many, many words that you are an idiot.

https://www.alternet.org/election-2016/noam-chomskys-8-point-rationale-voting-lesser-evil-presidential-candidate
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In fact, I took that advice and voted for Clinton in the general election.

Look where that got us.

If different results are desired, one must do something different.

Bernie is gonna run. Bernie is gonna run over the establishment Democratic Party like the bulldozer at the landfill. The Democratic Party is gonna try to cheat- again- and they'll be caught- again.

Whether the Democratic Party actually allows the Will of the People to count will determine whether we get a new direction or four more years of the Chump/Pence corporatocracy.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
In fact, I took that advice and voted for Clinton in the general election.

Look where that got us.

If different results are desired, one must do something different.

Bernie is gonna run. Bernie is gonna run over the establishment Democratic Party like the bulldozer at the landfill. The Democratic Party is gonna try to cheat- again- and they'll be caught- again.

Whether the Democratic Party actually allows the Will of the People to count will determine whether we get a new direction or four more years of the Chump/Pence corporatocracy.
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Chomsky says you are an idiot.

He does say that between election cycles is a good time for the left to organize and push for their agenda. He also says to not ignore the downside risk of picking an agenda that the left may like but is a loser in terms of the general election:

The broader lesson to be drawn is not to shy away from confronting the dominance of the political system under the management of the two major parties. Rather, challenges to it need to be issued with a full awareness of their possible consequences. This includes the recognition that far right victories not only impose terrible suffering on the most vulnerable segments of society but also function as a powerful weapon in the hands of the establishment center, which, now in opposition can posture as the “reasonable” alternative.

Also:

the left should also recognize that, should Trump win based on its failure to support Clinton, it will repeatedly face the accusation (based in fact), that it lacks concern for those sure to be most victimized by a Trump administration.

Translation: fuck you Berners. You Berners weren't THE REASON Trump won but you Berners were a factor that tipped the election to Trump.

I'll be glad to see Bernie run in 2020 and look forward to listening to him and other candidates during the debates. The primary is the time to push your agenda and I'm good with not only Bernie running but others, including Harris, Biden, Cuomo, Sherrod Brown, Booker, Gillibrand and others.

You may see Bernie as the best fit to your white liberal agenda. I'd rather have a candidate who has good policies regarding economic issues that affect the middle and working classes but also one who demonstrates leadership on social issues. Regardless, I'll wholeheartedly back the Democratic Party's choice in Nov 2020. You won't see me crying about "rigged" and doing my utmost to suppress the vote in favor of Republicans.
 
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