Why cut fan leaves in half

[JSB99]

Very nice indeed.. Tips on the fermentation though, for 5 USGal, regular baker's yeast can successfully ferment about 4.5kg (10lbs) of sugar.. At that point the ABV of the bucket will be about 14%, and baker's yeast will die off..
Yeast also need some nutrition.. (Molasses works well)
Calculation-wise you get about 1 mole of CO2 (44g) for every 100g of sugar.. 1 mole of a gas will fill ~23L at standard temp/pressure..
So a 5 Gal ferment can produce about 45 moles of CO2 over 3-20 days depending on temperature, and recipe etc..
2000 ppm is ideal CO2 level, so thats a dilution of 500 times.. That means that one mole of CO2 will produce about 11500L, or 425cuft of ideal plant air, and the bucket will produce about 19000cuft of ideal plant air..
Your area is 48cuft, so that works out to about 400 exchanges/bucket..
Amount of CO2 is directly proportional to amount of fermented sugar.. Your addition method will keep a steadier rate, but pay attention to the total inside.. The numbers you quoted are pretty lightweight..
Also, contamination is only an issue if it smells too bad, or you want to drink your fermented product..
I just realized that you are using turbo yeast.. Personally I hate the flavor turbos give to a fermentation, so I stick with baker's yeast, EC-1118, or Carlsbergus because I'm not concerned with max capacity.. Turbos can survive up to maybe 18%ABV, so you could go up to almost 6kg sugar/5Gallon, but the production values will be the same..
BTW, champagne yeast is actually a little tougher than turbo yeast..

This is the info I've been looking for

Do you use a CO2 meter to measure your CO2? If so, what kind do you use?

I may switch over to the baker's yeast. I use a vaporizer so flavor is kind of important to me. Thank for that advise as well.

 

[Londoner]

The yeast/sugar Co2 method works but fuck me does it stink every time i unzipped my tent it was like walking into a brewery! Had to get rid of it.

 

[data]

everything looks clean, i like that.

 

[data]

dont cut anything

 

[JSB99]

Where are you taking your temp readings? At the tops under the lights? The faint color in the new growth could be heat related..
Any idea what kind of cfm your fans are pumping?

I have a thermometer hanging right below the light at plant height. I've since found out that it's just because it's new growth. All of the fans below are green.

Not sure what CFM I'm at, but it's most likely way beyond what I need. My lights are about 18" above the plants and the temps stay around 82F. When the fans go off for CO2, the temps will jump up to about 88F. Before I mounted the duct fan right inside the ait intake on the hood, the temps were a little harder to control. I was well into the 90's. I don't know why hood builders don't incorporate fans right into their air intakes. It makes a huge difference and it's much easier to control the heat. If my plants hadn't gotten so big I'd still have the light 12" - 14" above my them. But I needed to raise it for more coverage.

Ready for the overboard fan list?

2 x 5" high output AC server fans bring fresh air into the box and breeze the plants. These have a cut air conditioner filter covering the air intake so that no bugs get in.

2 x 6" duct fans exhausting the air out of the box. These go into the attic and all the way up to the highest attic exhaust vent via flexible duct. This is about 25' high.

1 x 6" duct fan mounted inside the hood air intake blowing air onto the light

1 x 6" duct fan on the other side of the light sucking the air from the light and exhausting it into the garage behind the water heater.

1 x 4" duct fan bringing fresh air into the closet from the bathroom's (next room over) exhaust fan via flexible duct tube.

1 x 8" duct fan to exhaust odorous air from the closet. This just exhausts it into the attic.

I also sealed my box really well. The box is the bi-fold resin plastic storage closet from Home Depot ($139). The doors had gaps where they came together and where the bi-folds were so I used foam insulating strips with the sticky back between them.

So, I don't know if this seems overboard to some, but I wanted to make sure no one in the rest of the house would smell anything, especially visiting relatives. With what I have there is barely a trace of the CO2 when the fans are off and the CO2 pump is on. Other than that, you can't smell anything in there. If I open the box doors I can smell the sweet, sweet smell of cannibus. But as soon as I close the doors the smell goes away instantly. The 8" fan is rated at 500 CFM. It's so strong that there's a huge draft coming in from under the door where the air is beeing sucked in. With all of these fans you would think it'd be really loud but it's not really much louder than a bathroom fan.

I've seen kits equivelent to what I built that sell for $2000 and up. I think in the end I spent about $800 to $900 for everything. It took some time to put it all together, but it was well worth it.

For any noobs reading this, if you have the time, are good with tools, and have some creativity, definately build your own box. It's extremely gratifying, you have complete control over your entire setup, and it'll save you so much money.

 

[born2killspam]

Nope, it would be kind of ironic to diy a fermentation CO2 setup to save money, then drop $2000 on a CO2 meter..
It is going to be fairly pure CO2 evolved though, (and aside from bug attraction, anything else evolved is likely beneficial [like ethane]..
You can learn a recipe very well though so that it performs predictably at a certain temperature.. Easy math to calculate instantaneous output with your pressure guage, a stop watch, and PV=nRT..
What kind of pressures are you achieving? You should look into the diffusion rate of CO2 through PVC.. CO2 sneaks through alot of materials.. Hydro stores sell expensive line to carry CO2 from tanks.. You might be losing alot.. Copper tubing, and a metal canister would hold it under pressure pretty well.. Even if it is leaking though, its probably still helping your plants while the fans run..
Oh, and I was speaking of the flavor of the alcoholic product, not the bud.. CO2 is CO2, but bakers yeast is definately more cost effective.. Buy Fleishman's in vacuum packed lbs for less than $5..
Also, if its clean, or if you just don't give a damn you can reuse the yeast sludge in your next batch.. If done properly, reused 'lees' can improve flavor and body, and the living yeast tend to be more selected to alcohol tolerance at that point..
Whatever you use, give them the proper amount of sugar needed to hit the abv they can survive to, nutrition like molasses, potato (or water from boiling them), or even just toss in a tortilla or instant oatmeal pack, or a teabag, or fruit etc.. Tomato paste is pretty damn ideal since you want to shoot for mid 4's pH with lemon juice anyway.. Cooked up dead yeast is pretty damn good obviously too..
Lastly, if you're going for speed, give them a bit of ammonical nitrogen.. Brew stores sell DAP (diammonium phosphate), but a tid-bit of any fertilizer will work.. (Some ferts will evolve trace amounts of hydrogen sulfide I find though).. Don't worry, it won't become dangerous.. When you no longer smell rotten eggs that means its gone, not too concentrated to detect..
You won't necessarily be looking for the fastest recipe though.. You'll need to work out your math.. Also, when you have a while when you don't need it churning you can slow it down by lowering its temperature..
Basically yeast thrive best at 80-100°F, will slow down until becoming dormant at around 50° depending on the yeast, and if it gets much above 120°F, your yeast is toast.. Actually those numbers match plant response pretty closely I guess..

Edit: If you want the most consistent evolution rate, then target baker's yeast for a maximum of 10%abv.. Thats about 3.25kg/5Gallon.. It slows down when its pushing its limit.. Maybe 4.5kg/5Gallons with turbos..

 

[JSB99]

Looks like you can setup co2 for around $200, is that the price you were seeing ?

I've seen them anywhere from $100 for the very lowest end CO2 generators. These have a mix of chemicals that produce CO2. You have to replace the chemicals after each grow and the chemicals are $50 a container. I've seen them go into the $1000's though.

It just seems that $30 startup and probably $15 annual cost for sugar and yeast is much more reasonable for a smaller setup. Or you can just breath on them for free. I breathed into my CO2 sensor and it went right off the chart

 

[JSB99]

Nope, it would be kind of ironic to diy a fermentation CO2 setup to save money, then drop $2000 on a CO2 meter..
It is going to be fairly pure CO2 evolved though, (and aside from bug attraction, anything else evolved is likely beneficial [like ethane]..
You can learn a recipe very well though so that it performs predictably at a certain temperature.. Easy math to calculate instantaneous output with your pressure guage, a stop watch, and PV=nRT..
What kind of pressures are you achieving? You should look into the diffusion rate of CO2 through PVC.. CO2 sneaks through alot of materials.. Hydro stores sell expensive line to carry CO2 from tanks.. You might be losing alot.. Copper tubing, and a metal canister would hold it under pressure pretty well.. Even if it is leaking though, its probably still helping your plants while the fans run..
Oh, and I was speaking of the flavor of the alcoholic product, not the bud.. CO2 is CO2, but bakers yeast is definately more cost effective.. Buy Fleishman's in vacuum packed lbs for less than $5..
Also, if its clean, or if you just don't give a damn you can reuse the yeast sludge in your next batch.. If done properly, reused 'lees' can improve flavor and body, and the living yeast tend to be more selected to alcohol tolerance at that point..
Whatever you use, give them the proper amount of sugar needed to hit the abv they can survive to, nutrition like molasses, potato (or water from boiling them), or even just toss in a tortilla or instant oatmeal pack, or a teabag, or fruit etc.. Tomato paste is pretty damn ideal since you want to shoot for mid 4's pH with lemon juice anyway.. Cooked up dead yeast is pretty damn good obviously too..
Lastly, if you're going for speed, give them a bit of ammonical nitrogen.. Brew stores sell DAP (diammonium phosphate), but a tid-bit of any fertilizer will work.. (Some ferts will evolve trace amounts of hydrogen sulfide I find though).. Don't worry, it won't become dangerous.. When you no longer smell rotten eggs that means its gone, not too concentrated to detect..
You won't necessarily be looking for the fastest recipe though.. You'll need to work out your math.. Also, when you have a while when you don't need it churning you can slow it down by lowering its temperature..
Basically yeast thrive best at 80-100°F, will slow down until becoming dormant at around 50° depending on the yeast, and if it gets much above 120°F, your yeast is toast.. Actually those numbers match plant response pretty closely I guess..

Edit: If you want the most consistent evolution rate, then target baker's yeast for a maximum of 10%abv.. Thats about 3.25kg/5Gallon.. It slows down when its pushing its limit.. Maybe 4.5kg/5Gallons with turbos..

Wow, I didn't realize CO2 was so persistent with less dense materials. I'll probably get the better tubing. I'd really like to get everything as efficient as possible. Systems that cost less usually require more work, and the more work you put into them the better they'll perform.

I'm going to switch over to the baker's yeast because you've already got a tuned system using that and you've provided me all the numbers I need to get there myself.

I appreciate all of your advice

 

[born2killspam]

Compare the cost of copper tubing with the specialized stuff.. Aluminum tubing would also work.. Not much diffuses through metal..
And you've got a much cooler boost bucket setup than I ever used for growing.. When I used it I just worked on the assumption that since I couldn't hit toxic levels, whatever evolved and swirled around in the grow room would help.. (There were also 4 bakeries on my street, two of them right across a lot from my grow room..
I've been an avid fermenter/distiller for years though.. I do know my yeast pretty well, and I've got alot of chem/physics/engineering uneder my belt so it all comes together pretty easily math wise..

 

[JSB99]

Compare the cost of copper tubing with the specialized stuff.. Aluminum tubing would also work.. Not much diffuses through metal..
And you've got a much cooler boost bucket setup than I ever used for growing.. When I used it I just worked on the assumption that since I couldn't hit toxic levels, whatever evolved and swirled around in the grow room would help.. (There were also 4 bakeries on my street, two of them right across a lot from my grow room..
I've been an avid fermenter/distiller for years though.. I do know my yeast pretty well, and I've got alot of chem/physics/engineering uneder my belt so it all comes together pretty easily math wise..

Thanks

I'm a programmer so I'll have to build an application, take all the numbers and formulas, and plug them all in because there's no way I'm going to be able to put all those numbers together, for my setup, without many additional years of college or a pc to do it for me

Do you have any kind of pump with your setup or do you just use the pressure from the fermentation? When I added my pump the pressure it created inside the bucket was enough to push a good amount of CO2 into the box. It made a huge difference.

Also, do you use timers with your fans to turn the fans off every once in a while to increase the level of CO2?

 

[timmmy2021]

damn plants look great!!!

 

[born2killspam]

Nothing fancy, I've never even done the math for my own grows like I did for yours because when I had a grow-room (I'm not growing right now) the grow area was quite open concept.. I did run pvc tubing from the air-locks to above the plants though.. I never really had a 'boost-bucket' per se.. Everything I ferment is meant to be consumed.. I've found that if you freeze the fermentation product, and let it drip-thaw until the remaining ice is pretty colorless, the leftover ice water is a great base for organic mixtures.. The stripped wash left in a still, and any product from the mashing of fruits/grains is also pretty perfect for good soil compost.. Growing weed, and producing spirits are pretty damned symbiotic without trying too hard if you ask me.. I mean it even helps a tad as an odour mask..

Edit: I do love your concept though.. Feel dumb for not doing something similar for coolness sake alone.. I honestly doubtt your setup works very well like you thing it does right now, but you're on the right path to changing that, and the fall back bonus is that even if the system doesn't have high efficiency, leakage still helps passively like my concept..
I never cycled fans in cahoots with a dosage, but your concept is VERY sound.. It wouldn't be unfeasible at all to predictably contain a dosage for release.. Not much volume/pressure is required, because you only need about 1/500 the volume of your space..

Double Edit: it just occured to me, how perfect a simple pot-still with a solenoid valve would be for the dosage and containment.. My pot-still can hold up to an internal pressure of atleast 4 atm, and copper/SS are impervious to CO2..

 

[JSB99]

Here are the latest pics. They've gotten quite big (and healthy as far as I can tell).

These are one week after flowering. The very tallest one (which I used LST to maintain its' height in the box) is probably about 36" tall. The second tallest one is 30". That's the one just to the left of the hanging thermometer.

 

[born2killspam]

One of the nicest gardens I've ever seen.. Only thing I'd worry about is space.. If anything looks like it isn't in a position to perform extremely well, I'd get rid of it before crowding reduces the health/beauty.. Healthy plants grow fast, and those are healthy plants!. Next time though you should add some close-up pics incase there is the seed of a problem you fail to notice.. I don't expect there is AT ALL, but that is just too pretty.. It would be a shame if a downhill trend came about, and was preventable..
Those must just wreak already given how healthy they are..
Also on the space issue, when do you intend to flip to 12/12? Its helpful that those look to be pretty indica dominant, but you should still expect them to grow a ways after the switch..

 

[JSB99]

One of the nicest gardens I've ever seen.. Only thing I'd worry about is space.. If anything looks like it isn't in a position to perform extremely well, I'd get rid of it before crowding reduces the health/beauty.. Healthy plants grow fast, and those are healthy plants!. Next time though you should add some close-up pics incase there is the seed of a problem you fail to notice.. I don't expect there is AT ALL, but that is just too pretty.. It would be a shame if a downhill trend came about, and was preventable..
Those must just wreak already given how healthy they are..
Also on the space issue, when do you intend to flip to 12/12? Its helpful that those look to be pretty indica dominant, but you should still expect them to grow a ways after the switch..

Thanks They really exploded when I started flowering (last week). Room may be an issue. I already removed the top shelf from the cabinet and raised the mount for the light. The tallest one has grown overnight to about 12" below the light (three feet tall). But, I think it may be a male. I see tiny pods coming out of where the they would be coming out of during flowering. I grew these from seeds so I knew I was going to have some males. After I pull the males I'll get my cuttings and start cloning.

I've included some new pics. These were taken a few minutes ago.

 

[kash959]

I wana make love to ur plant and ur system... damn nice.

 

[lilmafia513]

I agree, but what was found out about cutting the leaves, good or bad, or neither?

 

[bobbyboy34]

no pruning at all during flowering, that will lower your yeilds

 

[GrowTech]

It's for plants that have been cloned. People will cut some of the fan leaves in half to reduce the amount of production that is done through photosynthesis, which is actually a little bit of work for the young cuttings being that they have no root system developed yet.

 

[Bangers999]

You can also use a pure co2 fire extinguisher, this is pure carbon dioxide, i sometimes get them from friends and a guy that can refil them for a liitle weed in exchange seems to work wonders, its best done not lone into the lights coming on, works for mine.