Three More Reasons for Wealth Deprived Americans to Take to the Streets

[Fogdog]

Lol talk about cherry picking.

You're going you try and tell us that MSNBC and CNN don't have a slant?

'It's very subtle', you say. Maybe you just don't like the objectively reasonable conclusions the authors come to, based on the data presented.

That is not cherry picking. That kind of bias is all over their site. You quoted that shit several times so it's clear that you are susceptible to it. What I quoted what classic propaganda technique through and through. Good propaganda is subtle. Even on RT, it's sometimes hard to pick out. That's why it is so effective.

Cite what you call propaganda on CNN and MSNBC. Explain how it is propaganda. I'll even spot you MSNBC, but CNN? You'll have to cite something from them and explain why you say it's propaganda.

 

[A.K.A. Overgrowem]

If you can point out where I'm being unfair in challenging the veracity of those news items, let me know. I really despise spending time on those propaganda sites but I have and can say that the propaganda is there.

For example, here:
https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2018/03/senate-expands-lobbyist-bill-deregulate-real-estate.html

The article is pretty much informative. The propaganda is very subtle. Note at the beginning that the authors were clear that "The vote to end debate sailed through the Senate with the support of 13 Democratic senators." If one searches the article, there was no mention that 51 Republicans voted for it and the bill was written by Crapo, a Republican. In fact there is no mention of Republicans. Not once. The bill is entirely the child of Republicans yet the article only mentions the minority of Democrats who voted with them. The same bias is repeated again and again throughout that website's media. The slant is to put blame on Democrats even when the author of the tragedy is Republican. This is not fake news, it is propaganda.

This is why I say
Nakedcaptialism is a propaganda website that furthers the right wing agenda. Anything that comes from there is suspect.

There are plenty of sites that are free of propaganda and prefer avoiding sites that contain it.

I remember seeing that article on a different site. Wonder who penned it?. If I remember right the News in the event WAS "The defecting Dems. not "ending debate" on some no-doubt heinous curse the Gov. was scheming to reign down. It is yellow dog journalism. A deliberately one-sided hit piece to make sure Dems knew the who, when and what and Pub's got something to crow about. As far as the 13 yea votes, some peeps may vote for"the home-folks" or other advantageous reasons on an already lost cause. To call an article constructed like this fake is iffy, better called ultra or hype partisan. Sean Hannity is the #1 purveyor of fake news today.

 

[Fogdog]

I remember seeing that article on a different site. Wonder who penned it?. If I remember right the News in the event WAS "The defecting Dems. not "ending debate" on some no-doubt heinous curse the Gov. was scheming to reign down. It is yellow dog journalism. A deliberately one-sided hit piece to make sure Dems knew the who, when and what and Pub's got something to crow about. As far as the 13 yea votes, some peeps may vote for"the home-folks" or other advantageous reasons on an already lost cause. To call an article constructed like this fake is iffy, better called ultra or hype partisan.

Yes if that was the only article with that kind of bias. I'm really hating going through this site so this will be the last example. It's a well written article that is sure to get the Berners frothing. I don't dispute the issue of campaign finance reform but this article presents only one side of the discussion:
How the Democrat’s Corrupt Congressional Pay-to-Play Machine Sabotages Progressives and the Popular Will
https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2018/03/democrats-corrupt-congressional-pay-play-machine-sabotages-progressives-public-wil.html

Why do I say the above article is "propaganda that furthers the right wing agenda"?

First the focus is entirely on Democrats. There is one sentence buried in the middle of a paragraph buried in the middle of the article that says Republicans do the same. Why then does the article cover this non-partisan problem as a "Democrat's Corrupt Congressional" issue?

Second, the article doesn't explain why this system exists, what the "pay to play" money is used for and why Congressmen comply with it. For their money, they get access to infrastructure, information and like it or not, coaching on how to run a successful campaign. There is no requirement that a candidate pony up either. A congressman can most certainly win an election without it. Yet the article portrays this "corrupt pay to play machine" as a device to keep outsiders outside. I can see why a low dollar campaign might feel so but if one gets into the details, this "corrupt" device isn't an exclusionary device. The money raised is used to help less well funded campaigns succeed:

This is from an article with a balanced view on the topic:

Of course the leaders of both parties in Congress have a legitimate interest in raising money for the committees, like the National Republican Congressional Committee and the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, whose job it is to help members of the party win their races so the party can maintain, or acquire, majority status in either house of Congress.

The party leaders, who generally have relatively safe seats of their own, are quite reasonably interested in raising funds for the party committees and incentivizing the members of their caucuses to raise funds for those committees as well. One way to incentivize along those lines is to reward successful fundraisers with good committee assignments and even chairmanships. And those assignments are in the leaders’ control.

https://www.minnpost.com/eric-black-ink/2017/04/congressional-dues-help-garner-good-committee-assignments

please note that I am not questioning the accuracy of what was portrayed on the nakedcapitalism website. I am also upset at the way campaign funding gives unfair access to big money even to the point where committee seats are beholden to lobbyist money. However, it's clear that campaing finance reform can only come from Democratic congressional action. I'm pointing out the breathtaking and painfully obvious to me bias in that article is designed to achieve just the opposite.

• The article completely portrays the Democratic party as corrupt. Digging into details, it's not clear that the intent or effect is corrupt.
• The article doesn't give a wit of text to provide an alternative viewpoint
• The article focuses on Democrats when Republicans use the same mechanism to get as many candidates from their party elected. Note that this one-sided partisanship permeates nakedcapitalism's site.
• The article falsely portrays the reason for the "corrupt pay to play machine" as one to exclude undesirables, specifically Bernocrats. Bernie, isn't even a Democrat, he's an independent.

My reason for finding this repugnant and even antidemocratic is that I can find no breakdown of how this site pays for itself much less pays it's staff. There are stories in the media about campaigns funded by right wing billionaires to suppress votes by liberals through propaganda intended to make the Democratic Party look as bad as Republican Party. I think this site is one of them. This is why I say:

nakedcapitalism is a propaganda website that furthers the right wing agenda. Anything that comes from there is suspect.

 

[A.K.A. Overgrowem]

Yes if that was the only article with that kind of bias. I'm really hating going through this site so this will be the last example. It's a well written article that is sure to get the Berners frothing. I don't dispute the issue of campaign finance reform but this article presents only one side of the discussion:
How the Democrat’s Corrupt Congressional Pay-to-Play Machine Sabotages Progressives and the Popular Will
https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2018/03/democrats-corrupt-congressional-pay-play-machine-sabotages-progressives-public-wil.html

Why do I say the above article is "propaganda that furthers the right wing agenda"?

First the focus is entirely on Democrats. There is one sentence buried in the middle of a paragraph buried in the middle of the article that says Republicans do the same. Why then does the article cover this non-partisan problem as a "Democrat's Corrupt Congressional" issue?

Second, the article doesn't explain why this system exists, what the "pay to play" money is used for and why Congressmen comply with it. For their money, they get access to infrastructure, information and like it or not, coaching on how to run a successful campaign. There is no requirement that a candidate pony up either. A congressman can most certainly win an election without it. Yet the article portrays this "corrupt pay to play machine" as a device to keep outsiders outside. I can see why a low dollar campaign might feel so but if one gets into the details, this "corrupt" device isn't an exclusionary device. The money raised is used to help less well funded campaigns succeed:

This is from an article with a balanced view on the topic:

Of course the leaders of both parties in Congress have a legitimate interest in raising money for the committees, like the National Republican Congressional Committee and the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, whose job it is to help members of the party win their races so the party can maintain, or acquire, majority status in either house of Congress.

The party leaders, who generally have relatively safe seats of their own, are quite reasonably interested in raising funds for the party committees and incentivizing the members of their caucuses to raise funds for those committees as well. One way to incentivize along those lines is to reward successful fundraisers with good committee assignments and even chairmanships. And those assignments are in the leaders’ control.

https://www.minnpost.com/eric-black-ink/2017/04/congressional-dues-help-garner-good-committee-assignments

please note that I am not questioning the accuracy of what was portrayed on the nakedcapitalism website. I am also upset at the way campaign funding gives unfair access to big money even to the point where committee seats are beholden to lobbyist money. However, it's clear that campaing finance reform can only come from Democratic congressional action. I'm pointing out the breathtaking and painfully obvious to me bias in that article is designed to achieve just the opposite.

• The article completely portrays the Democratic party as corrupt. Digging into details, it's not clear that the intent or effect is corrupt.
• The article doesn't give a wit of text to provide an alternative viewpoint
• The article focuses on Democrats when Republicans use the same mechanism to get as many candidates from their party elected. Note that this one-sided partisanship permeates nakedcapitalism's site.
• The article falsely portrays the reason for the "corrupt pay to play machine" as one to exclude undesirables, specifically Bernocrats. Bernie, isn't even a Democrat, he's an independent.

My reason for finding this repugnant and even antidemocratic is that I can find no breakdown of how this site pays for itself much less pays it's staff. There are stories in the media about campaigns funded by right wing billionaires to suppress votes by liberals through propaganda intended to make the Democratic Party look as bad as Republican Party. I think this site is one of them. This is why I say:

nakedcapitalism is a propaganda website that furthers the right wing agenda. Anything that comes from there is suspect.

Much merit in what you say unfortunately or fortunately I'm approaching Willie Nelson/ Snoop Dogg territory. Comments will have to wait. The pay for play is not so cut and dried. I hear Congressional candidates in my area must assure the Repug. party they can raise 300k in donations prior to the primary campaign to get party support. Sort of works for the connected, the influential, and those willing to become partisan to your cause, based of the weight of your purse.

 

[Fogdog]

Much merit in what you say unfortunately or fortunately I'm approaching Willie Nelson/ Snoop Dogg territory. Comments will have to wait. The pay for play is not so cut and dried. I hear Congressional candidates in my area must assure the Repug. party they can raise 300k in donations prior to the primary campaign to get party support. Sort of works for the connected, the influential, and those willing to become partisan to your cause, based of the weight of your purse.

Totally agree that campaign finance reform needs to take place. That wasn't my point.

I was discussing the presence of propaganda on the nakedcaptialism website. The article from that website portrays the problem as if the chicanery exists as a Democratic Party corruption. As you say, a non-partisan problem and yet the article's headline screams "Democrat". The same propaganda ploy plays time and again on that site.

You challenged the statement that that site is a propaganda site that pushes the right wing agenda. I only addressed that. I hope you can agree that I've at least made a case and it's up to you from there to decide.

There are better places to get information than a site that sprinkles in right wing propaganda amid news stories.

 

[Unclebaldrick]

Totally agree that campaign finance reform needs to take place. That wasn't my point.

I was discussing the presence of propaganda on the nakedcaptialism website. The article from that website portrays the problem as if the chicanery exists as a Democratic Party corruption. As you say, a non-partisan problem and yet the article's headline screams "Democrat". The same propaganda ploy plays time and again on that site.

You challenged the statement that that site is a propaganda site that pushes the right wing agenda. I only addressed that. I hope you can agree that I've at least made a case and it's up to you from there to decide.

There are better places to get information than a site that sprinkles in right wing propaganda amid news stories.

It seems so obvious, but it fools the weakest thinkers. Oh well.

 

[A.K.A. Overgrowem]

Totally agree that campaign finance reform needs to take place. That wasn't my point.

I was discussing the presence of propaganda on the nakedcaptialism website. The article from that website portrays the problem as if the chicanery exists as a Democratic Party corruption. As you say, a non-partisan problem and yet the article's headline screams "Democrat". The same propaganda ploy plays time and again on that site.

You challenged the statement that that site is a propaganda site that pushes the right wing agenda. I only addressed that. I hope you can agree that I've at least made a case and it's up to you from there to decide.

There are better places to get information than a site that sprinkles in right wing propaganda amid news stories.

I know what your point is, I was too stoned to make a reply and still am. Yipee!

 

[Wilksey]

The pay for play is not so cut and dried. I hear Congressional candidates [....]must assure the [..] party they can raise 300k in donations prior to the primary campaign to get party support. Sort of works for the connected, the influential, and those willing to become partisan to your cause, based of the weight of your purse.

This is the state of all American politics, regardless of the (R), (I), or (D) any given shitbag attaches to their name. The party system is corrupt, incompetent, treasonous, and designed to enrich the party and those that line their pockets at the expense of the rest of the nation as a whole. The system must be destroyed before it destroys us, and the only chance we have to do that is to demand another constitutional convention and allow the states to re-write the constitution to limit federal powers again.

 

[UncleBuck]

This is the state of all American politics, regardless of the (R), (I), or (D) any given shitbag attaches to their name. The party system is corrupt, incompetent, treasonous, and designed to enrich the party and those that line their pockets at the expense of the rest of the nation as a whole. The system must be destroyed before it destroys us, and the only chance we have to do that is to demand another constitutional convention and allow the states to re-write the constitution to limit federal powers again.

limiting federal powers would mean you can't enforce your precious immigration laws, obersturmfuhrer wilksey

 

[ttystikk]

This is the state of all American politics, regardless of the (R), (I), or (D) any given shitbag attaches to their name. The party system is corrupt, incompetent, treasonous, and designed to enrich the party and those that line their pockets at the expense of the rest of the nation as a whole. The system must be destroyed before it destroys us, and the only chance we have to do that is to demand another constitutional convention and allow the states to re-write the constitution to limit federal powers again.

How are independents part of a party?

The kind of revolution you suggest would lead to chaos and civil war of a kind the one in the 1860s would pale beside.

I don't think it's too late to bring the Federal Government back under control of We the People. The first thing that must be done is to eradicate private funding of publicly appointed or elected figures, either directly or indirectly.

It's not the only necessary reform but it is the first priority; without it, no other reform efforts will be successful or lasting. For proof, look at the ACA (Obamacare).

 

[bundee1]

How are independents part of a party?

The kind of revolution you suggest would lead to chaos and civil war of a kind the one in the 1860s would pale beside.

I don't think it's too late to bring the Federal Government back under control of We the People. The first thing that must be done is to eradicate private funding of publicly appointed or elected figures, either directly or indirectly.

It's not the only necessary reform but it is the first priority; without it, no other reform efforts will be successful or lasting. For proof, look at the ACA (Obamacare).

No comment on the proof of propaganda?
@ttystik are you sure you're not swerve?

 

[ttystikk]

No comment on the proof of propaganda?
@ttystik are you sure you're not swerve?

No, I'm a Progressive.

 

[Fogdog]

No comment on the proof of propaganda?
@ttystik are you sure you're not swerve?

Him and Pad do the same thing. Once they have been owned they move on to something else. Perhaps tty will just drop down to the lower level of discussion and simply fling poo. They circle back to the same thing later. Sometimes in a matter of hours. This is why I keep it simple for them by saying

nakedcapitalism is a propaganda website that furthers the right wing agenda. Anything that comes from there is suspect.

also counterpunch and other sites.

 

[ttystikk]

But extreme income inequality is not a problem, to the point where y'all won't even talk about it.

 

[Fogdog]

But extreme income inequality is not a problem, to the point where y'all won't even talk about it.

nakedcapitalism is a propaganda website that furthers the right wing agenda. Anything that comes from there is suspect.

 

[Rob Roy]

Go rob a rich guy.

It's your only solution.

That's sexist. Oprah is scowling at you right now.

 

[ttystikk]

nakedcapitalism is a propaganda website that furthers the right wing agenda. Anything that comes from there is suspect.

So income and wealth inequality and their attendant socially destructive consequences aren't a problem for you.

And you wonder why you aren't being taken seriously.

 

[Fogdog]

So income and wealth inequality and their attendant socially consequences isn't a problem for you.

And you wonder why you aren't being taken seriously.

nakedcapitalism is a propaganda website that furthers the right wing agenda. Anything that comes from there is suspect.

 

[somedude584]

Revolution, mass riots, political assassinations, all this would only lead to create vacuums in power that people could and will exploit.

 

[ttystikk]

Revolution, mass riots, political assassinations, all this would only lead to create vacuums in power that people could and will exploit.

And America does it all the time. Iraq, Afghanistan, etc, ad nauseum...