Giant Mutant Fungus Gnats

Pedestrian

Active Member
giant fungus gnat p.png
Might be the nematodes, the food-grade diatomaceous earth and the cedar oil affecting their pituitary glands. Somebody else mentioned their gnats getting bigger, inspiring the illustration. I'm finally making some headway soaking the soil surface and the outside of my cloth bags with good old Organicide from Home Depot. First grow in dirt - FFOF + Dr Earth Flower Girl. Previously used BT cookies in my reservoir but don't want to use that any more.
 

NewGrower2011

Well-Known Member
I just read somewhere else on people not wanting to use Bt... Any links/info on the reasoning - quick searches are showing people advocating use, not avoiding so having just added some to my fresh batch of soil - definitely curious. Was also looking at Spinosad and noting it's labelled as 'Outdoor Residential Use Ony' with the outdoor part seeming specific under to wonder why...
 

Pedestrian

Active Member
I can't point to scientific evidence that BT is dangerous, but it is systemic in the treated plant and I doubt if the safety of smoking or vaping it has been studied. Highly doubt it is dangerous, mostly put off by the role it plays in the GMO controversy.
 

NaturalFarmer

Well-Known Member
I can't point to scientific evidence that BT is dangerous, but it is systemic in the treated plant and I doubt if the safety of smoking or vaping it has been studied. Highly doubt it is dangerous, mostly put off by the role it plays in the GMO controversy.
BTi is systematic in the plant? Doesn't it only effect the larvae development of mosquito, black flies and fungus gnats?
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
i've used spinosad for 3 years now, and as far as i can tell, it's not hurt me. i haven't had my stuff tested, but people use it on food crops up till harvest, and it doesn't kill bees if you apply it in the evening and it gets a chance to dry before the bees come back out.
you have to use SOMETHING, or you have to stand there with a pair of tweezers and a magnifying glass picking bugs off manually.
i think spinosad is one of the safest things available right now. is it 100%? i doubt it, nothing is, but compared to the alternatives, i find it acceptable.
 

Crab Pot

Well-Known Member
i've used spinosad for 3 years now, and as far as i can tell, it's not hurt me. i haven't had my stuff tested, but people use it on food crops up till harvest, and it doesn't kill bees if you apply it in the evening and it gets a chance to dry before the bees come back out.
you have to use SOMETHING, or you have to stand there with a pair of tweezers and a magnifying glass picking bugs off manually.
i think spinosad is one of the safest things available right now. is it 100%? i doubt it, nothing is, but compared to the alternatives, i find it acceptable.[/QUOTE




Be careful brother. My understanding is that Spinosad is extremely dangerous. I’m talking one of the worst of the worst when it comes to your health. I don’t remember all of the details but when it’s combusted it becomes extremely toxic. It’s approved and apparently safe on food crops but not when it’s combusted, that’s the problem. It’s not approved for use on cannabis by any of the state regulators due to its toxicity when combusted.

Be careful brother. My understanding is that Spinosad is extremely dangerous. I’m talking one of the worst of the worst when it comes to your health. I don’t remember all of the details but when it’s combusted it becomes extremely toxic. It’s approved and apparently save on food crops but not when combusted, that’s the problem. It’s not approved for use on cannabis by any of the state regulators due to its toxicity when combusted.
 
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Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
Spinosad is broken down rapidly by sunlight. In the presence of sunlight, half-lives on leaves are 2 to 16 days and less than one day in water. When applied to leaves, some spinosad can be absorbed. However, it does not readily spread from leaves to the rest of the plant. In the absence of sunlight, spinosad breaks down very slowly in water. Half-lives of more than 30 days to 259 days have been reported. However, it binds rapidly to sediment. The halflife in sediment, where no oxygen is available, ranges from 161 to 250 days.

Spinosad also sticks to soil and has a very low potential to move through soil towards ground water. In field studies, no break down products of spinosad were found below a soil depth of two feet. In the top layers of soil, spinosad is rapidly broken down by microbes. Soil half-lives of 9 to 17 days have been reported. After it is applied, spinosad is not likely to become airborne.
from this.> http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/spinosadgen.html

general info > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinosad


if you read this one, http://www.cdms.net/LDat/mp0F5022.pdf it does say that burning it MAY produce some toxic substances.
5. FIREFIGHTING MEASURES
Suitable extinguishing media:
To extinguish combustible residues of this product
use water fog,
carbon dioxide, dry chemical or foam.
Unsuitable extinguishing media:
no data available
Special hazards arising from the substance or mixtu
re
Hazardous combustion products:
Under fire conditions some components of this produ
ct may
decompose. The smoke may contain unidentified toxic
and/or irritating compounds. Combustion
products may include and are not limited to: Nitro
gen oxides. Carbon monoxide. Carbon dioxide.


so it has a half life between 2 and 16 days in sunlight, or under grow lights. split the difference and call it a week. so after 1 week you have 50% of what didn't drip off. one week later you have 25%. one week after that you have 12.5%, then 6.25% at one month after spraying.
it's pretty damn rare that i have to spray a plant at all once i put it in flower, and never closer than 2 months before harvest. at two months that would be .35%.....i find that to be an acceptable risk.
 

Michael Huntherz

Well-Known Member
I am so completely not worried about spinosad.
Lol.
Wet pyrethrums maybe, but after that dries, fine.

Many natural pesticides from wild plants lurking in your neighborhood, right this very minute, are more dangerous than those chemicals. I mean, don’t go licking No Pest Strips or anything... but otherwise the natural world is usually far more toxic. Learn to science, everyone.

BT is potentially dangerous, though, when used improperly,
Iike pyrethrum.
And hot dogs.
 
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Michael Huntherz

Well-Known Member
I am so completely not worried about spinosad.
Lol.
Wet pyrethrums maybe, but after that dries, fine.

Many natural pesticides from wild plants lurking in your neighborhood, right this very minute, are more dangerous than those chemicals. I mean, don’t go licking No Pest Strips or anything... but otherwise the natural world is usually far more toxic. Learn to science, everyone.

BT is potentially dangerous, though, when used improperly,
Iike pyrethrum.
And hot dogs.
@DREGER are you stalking me? You are liking literally every post I make right now, lol. I love you too!
 

NaturalFarmer

Well-Known Member
[QUOTE="Michael Huntherz, post: 14194547, member: 906698" Learn to science, everyone.

BT is potentially dangerous, though, when used improperly,
Iike pyrethrum.[/QUOTE]

I have never heard of any danger in BTi, could you elaborate?
 

NaturalFarmer

Well-Known Member
Be careful brother. My understanding is that Spinosad is extremely dangerous. I’m talking one of the worst of the worst when it comes to your health. I don’t remember all of the details but when it’s combusted it becomes extremely toxic. It’s approved and apparently save on food crops but not when combusted, that’s the problem. It’s not approved for use on cannabis by any of the state regulators due to its toxicity when combusted.
Are you confusing Spinosad with myclobutanil (Eagle 20)?
 

hillbill

Well-Known Member
GNATROL for gnat to the size of elephants! Used dunks for year to “control” gnats. Used Gnatrol once and again for good measure. No fucking gnats!
 

Crab Pot

Well-Known Member
Are you confusing Spinosad with myclobutanil (Eagle 20)?

No, I don’t believe so. I used to use it myself for thrips. There is a discussion about it somewhere in theses Kis Organics podcasts. I believe it was episode 15. If I get the time today, I’ll listen to the podcast again to see exactly where the issue was discussed.

https://www.kisorganics.com/pages/podcast
 
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Pedestrian

Active Member
I like that Spinosad is OMRI listed. My BT cookies (Summit Mosquito Dunks) don't have that. My view is that we live in a sea of man-made chemicals, and some may have dangers that haven't become apparent, especially in combination or with novel means of ingestion like smoking or vaping. The nervous system only evolved once - if it's bad for an insect's nerves it would be bad for us. If your pesticide has to break down, are we sure the process is complete?
 

Michael Huntherz

Well-Known Member
I like spinosad, too. :bigjoint:
I like that Spinosad is OMRI listed. My BT cookies (Summit Mosquito Dunks) don't have that. My view is that we live in a sea of man-made chemicals, and some may have dangers that haven't become apparent, especially in combination or with novel means of ingestion like smoking or vaping. The nervous system only evolved once - if it's bad for an insect's nerves it would be bad for us. If your pesticide has to break down, are we sure the process is complete?
1. We live in a sea of chemicals, most of them are natural...many of those natural chemicals are quite dangerous. “My [your] view” doesn’t matter at all, that’s just how the universe is.
2. Yes.

Man made chemicals are not inherently worse than natural chemicals. The idea that the natural world is safe or optimal in any way is a completely disprovable fantasy. Nature is beautiful and amazing, but also deadly and unforgiving. We need to stop this sort of “nature is perfect” thinking in its tracks every time we encounter it in ourselves or others.
 
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Pedestrian

Active Member
Man made chemicals are not inherently worse than natural chemicals. The idea that the natural world is safe or optimal in any way is a completely disprovable fantasy. Nature is beautiful and amazing, but also deadly and unforgiving. We need to stop this sort of “nature is perfect” thinking in its tracks every time we encounter it in ourselves or others.
I'm sure I take known health risks greater than the pest remedies we're discussing, and I never said nature is perfect. At least we co-evolved with nature's poisons. I'm sure they are much more (potentially) dangerous when isolated and manufactured. I'm old and can remember many times we were told something was safe to later find out it wasn't - Like riding our bikes behind the Jeeps spraying DDT in my swampy NJ hometown.
 

hillbill

Well-Known Member
Humans have come up with an amazing number of chemicals and many are incredibly dangerous and persistent in the environment. Please don't dismiss the ability of these to cause great harm to people and environments like the one inside your house.
 
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