subs supersoil

Rasta Roy said:
Definitely take back the hydrated lime right away as it will be of literally no use to you. You bought a soil that is already full of amendments and ready to use so don't mix your amendments with them at all. Dont do this at first cause your soil is good to go but Every four weeks top dress your plants with

1/4 cup of alfalfa meal, blood meal, potash, kelp meal per plant. Maybe 1/8 cup of the Epsom salts every other time you top dress unless you have a mag deficiency then up the frequency of application

Return every thing else to the store and spend the money on a good barrel aged sour beer or German lambic.
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thanks for the input. Secondary question. Currently Using FFOF and basic FF nutes. Would it be possible or ideal to reammend it with the leftover stuff I bought and let it all cook while the next grow is going. So basically adding the Worm Castings and Bone Meal and Bat Guano and Lime and letting it all fester for about 3-4 months then reuse it? Also is the lime just not needed because roots organic is good for the PH or did i just not get the right type?
 
Also Im trying to get a sort of rotation going where I re-ammend the soil so I'm thinking something like using this FFOF mix and then the Roots Organic and everytime a grow ends Ill have the next batch ready to go. The goal is also the not be feeding much other than regular water with maybe some molasses and a tea every month. What say you great minds of organics?
 
Rasta Roy said:
My personal grow is in 100 gallon beds, and the grows I've been paid to construct and consult on all grow in 60 to 150 gallon troughs...so my pot recommendations tend to be far from conservative lol.

I do not grow autos so unfortunately I'm not 100% sure on how to relate my experience to yours.

I can only say if it is your intention to shoot for a water only style grow, than five gallon pots will be to small. I would also recommend a 15 or 10 gallon pot.

But I don't know about autos since you've got a limited growth period. it might be better to have a smaller pot where the roots fill out quicker and then you just feed a liquid solution? I've been raising mothers and doing clones my whole grow career, I apologize my knowledge of autos is pretty stunted. I can only tell you why I do what I do, I hope it helps.

basically, say my basement height caps out at 10 feet, so im never gonna grow my plants higher than 6 feet.

I can grow the same two six foot plants in a 7 gallon pot, or a 15 gallon pot. Their root balls are where the difference is. The smaller pot will want to have the same size root ball as the bigger pot, since it has less pot to move around in, it will fill in every crevice of space in the soil and eat up all the available nutrients. You can top dress or liquid feed after this, it's a simple solution. But the plant in the bigger pot, the roots will have more soil to get into, so your nutrients in the soil tend to last longer. highly soluble anions like nitrogen still tend to need some reapplication, but a good base of compost, along with some neem cake seems to take the N a lot further.

But again, for autos you might be better off not following my approach. something with more water soluble nutes might be better suited to the limited growth time line.
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So if 5 Gallon Pots will not work for water only, then Im assuming 3G arent going to be any better. Im switching from ProMix/ PBP to organic living soil, I have 100 3G pots and am not switching to another size. I do 16 plants per 1K = 1 plant per sq foot, I shoot for 4-8 small main tops, flip at 10-16" end up with 2-3 foot plants, and 1-1.5 zips per plant yield. I always transplant into the 3G pot 2 weeks before flip. I veg at 18/6 for 4-6 weeks totaal under the main lights.


Here is my mix. Let me know your thoughts. Im halfway through flowering.

[] 1 Cup Bonemeal
[]1/2 Cup Dehydrated Molasses
[]1/2 Cup Kelp
[]1/2 Cup Alfalfa
[]1/2 Cup Blood meal
[]1/2 Cup Glacial Rock Dust
[]1/3 Cup Oyster Shell
[]1/3 Cup Dolomite Lime
[]1/3 Cup Gypsum
[]1/4 Cup Azomite
[]1/4 Cup Basalt

40% PEAT
40% PERLITE
20% EWC
 
Strudelheim said:
So if 5 Gallon Pots will not work for water only, then Im assuming 3G arent going to be any better. Im switching from ProMix/ PBP to organic living soil, I have 100 3G pots and am not switching to another size. I do 16 plants per 1K = 1 plant per sq foot, I shoot for 4-8 small main tops, flip at 10-16" end up with 2-3 foot plants, and 1-1.5 zips per plant yield. I always transplant into the 3G pot 2 weeks before flip. I veg at 18/6 for 4-6 weeks totaal under the main lights.


Here is my mix. Let me know your thoughts. Im halfway through flowering.

[] 1 Cup Bonemeal
[]1/2 Cup Dehydrated Molasses
[]1/2 Cup Kelp
[]1/2 Cup Alfalfa
[]1/2 Cup Blood meal
[]1/2 Cup Glacial Rock Dust
[]1/3 Cup Oyster Shell
[]1/3 Cup Dolomite Lime
[]1/3 Cup Gypsum
[]1/4 Cup Azomite
[]1/4 Cup Basalt

40% PEAT
40% PERLITE
20% EWC
Click to expand...

The dehydrated molasses I would leave out because it's just gonna end up on your floor and odds the benefits of are gone when it goes to the powder, just leaving you with the sugar which sure if you're outside has it's place but with your op and small pots; attempting to up your microbe count isn't going to do much on the positive side but make you feel better.

I would've dropped the blood meal since you've got the alfalfa meal. The glacial rock dust, and basalt and azomite are pulling triple duty and are pretty useless in horticulture (small pots), and all the information about minerals needing to be added to your soil is citing data from a 1930's magazine and now rock quarries are capitalizing anyway. Skip that shit. You're using kelp cause it's full minerals you don't need to buy a bunch of useless smashed rocks.

You don't need oyster shell flour and lime, though I do like piggy backing the gypsum.

What you're missing that would really get your soil flying is langbeinite. Also known as kmag or sulpomag. You only need about 1/4 cup per cubic foot but that's the one that will get your potassium levels to where they need to be.

The mix you have right now is gonna be loaded up on Nitrogen and Calcium, your phosphorus levels should be ok...but adding a slower release phosphate source like crab shell meal in addition would help, that or just retop dress more bone meal every 4 weeks or so with your pot size.

And you're definitely going to be hurting for magnesium and potassium.

Your plants will get good bud in your mix for sure...but getting your K and mag up will increase your trichomes and resin.
 
An Afgooey cross grown in my own personal spin on Super Soil. Way more sativa in this variety than the name suggests.

imag1161_orig.jpg
 
Rasta Roy said:
The dehydrated molasses I would leave out because it's just gonna end up on your floor and odds the benefits of are gone when it goes to the powder, just leaving you with the sugar which sure if you're outside has it's place but with your op and small pots; attempting to up your microbe count isn't going to do much on the positive side but make you feel better.

I would've dropped the blood meal since you've got the alfalfa meal. The glacial rock dust, and basalt and azomite are pulling triple duty and are pretty useless in horticulture (small pots), and all the information about minerals needing to be added to your soil is citing data from a 1930's magazine and now rock quarries are capitalizing anyway. Skip that shit. You're using kelp cause it's full minerals you don't need to buy a bunch of useless smashed rocks.

You don't need oyster shell flour and lime, though I do like piggy backing the gypsum.

What you're missing that would really get your soil flying is langbeinite. Also known as kmag or sulpomag. You only need about 1/4 cup per cubic foot but that's the one that will get your potassium levels to where they need to be.

The mix you have right now is gonna be loaded up on Nitrogen and Calcium, your phosphorus levels should be ok...but adding a slower release phosphate source like crab shell meal in addition would help, that or just retop dress more bone meal every 4 weeks or so with your pot size.

And you're definitely going to be hurting for magnesium and potassium.

Your plants will get good bud in your mix for sure...but getting your K and mag up will increase your trichomes and resin.
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Hey thanks for the detailed analysis. Wasn't expecting that, much appreciated.

I was shooting for diversity so thats why I have several sources of rock dusts (not using large amounts of each) same with the calcium, low amounts of each = 1 cup total, which was the standard calcium input I saw on recipes. The oyster shell is flakes so super slow release for that.

I used the dolomite for magnesium as sulpomag is on back order at the store for me. Should be plenty of mag in my worm castings too?

I thought Bone meal was pretty slow release? I think even the alfalfa and kelp meal have P in them, enough to contribute some to the total. And I did use 1 cup of bonemeal, more than anything else so I would think Im good on the P. Worm castings are high in P as well and I use 20% in my mix. - Homeade, so high quality and nutrient dense, Im in the prairies far from the coast, so crab shell is impossible to get here. I really tried to get everything possible, and the things in this mix is what I could get in bulk locally. There is one thing I want to get shipped, which is neem cake, will be $100 for 20 pounds of it.

I would use more alfalfa and skip the blood meal, but people always warned of how you should use just a little of alfalfa and be careful as it burns easily. Even though the NPK of it seems pretty balanced and low versus blood meal which is 12-0-0 ! So i settled on using 50/50 of each.

I guess I will see how it goes and just feed extra and go from there. My main concern is identifying which nutrient I am lacking in when the deficiency shows up, and adjusting my mix for the next run. Ive got some that are 4 Weeks in, and yellowing a bit, I will take some pictures and post up if thats ok? Then again my run off is coming out at 6.2, So its not in the ideal 6.5-6.8 range. I was thinking that might have something to do with it and was going to try to fix that first for the next run. Its low because I used peat moss, but also used sulfur on my worm castings because PH was in the 8 range. It came out a little too low, so will re use some soil that is at 6.5 already, and not add anymore sulfur for now.
 
mastermind303033 said:
Also Im trying to get a sort of rotation going where I re-ammend the soil so I'm thinking something like using this FFOF mix and then the Roots Organic and everytime a grow ends Ill have the next batch ready to go. The goal is also the not be feeding much other than regular water with maybe some molasses and a tea every month. What say you great minds of organics?
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That seems to be the trend. Don't forget to amend with old fashioned carbon. Wood chips and sawdust.
 
Anyone not wanting to spend stupid money on pro-tekt should pick up a lb or 2 of agsil 16 from build a soil and mix it yourself. Soooooooo much cheaper and exactly the same thing. Use as powder or make a concentrate in water (pro-tekt). Jmo but I'd like to see less bottles that cost us as it is so easy to make. Weigh out agsil16 blend to x amount of water, that's it... happy growing!

Edit: wrong place for this oops. But I'll leave it as it's still useful here...
 
Hi guys. I am just now making the switch to organic. I had a few questions. First of all I can't work the link so here is the recipe I am looking at:
Subcool’s Super Soil Recipe Improved, Large Batch :
  • 8 ten gallon bags of high quality Organic Potting Soil Such as “Roots Organic Soil”
  • 25 – 50 pounds of Organic Earthworm Castings
  • 5 pounds of Blood Meal (12-0-0)
  • 5 pounds of Bloom Bat Guano ( 0-5-0)
  • 5 pounds Fish Bone Meal ( 3-16-0)
  • 3 pounds Rock Phosphate (0-3-0)
  • 3/4 cup Epsom Salt
  • 1 cup Dolomite Lime
  • 1/2 cup Azomite
  • 2 table spoons (Tbs.) powdered Humic Acid

Subcool’s Super Soil Recipe Improved, Small Batch :
  • 1 ten gallon bag of high quality Organic Potting Soil Such as “Roots Organic Soil”
  • 3 to 6 pounds of Organic Earthworm Castings (1 lb. of casting = about 1 gal.)
  • 10 ounces of Blood Meal ( 10 oz. of blood meal = about 1 & 1/2 cups)
  • 10 ounces of Bloom Bat Guano ( 10 oz. of guano = about 1 cup)
  • 10 ounces Fish Bone Meal ( 10 oz. of bone meal = about 1 cup)
  • 6 ounces Rock Phosphate
  • 1&1/2 tablespoons Epsom Salt (magnesium sulfate)
  • 2 tablespoons or 1 oz. (liquid measure)of Dolomite Lime
  • 1 tablespoons or 1/2 oz. (liquid measure) of Azomite (trace elements)
  • 1 teaspoon of powdered Humic Acid
 
My main question or observation is isn't this recipe low on K? I really don't know, Any thoughts?
Edit:Update: I'm so confused! :eyesmoke:
I was about to order all this stuff now I'm second guessing the recipe.
RIP Subcool.
 
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DankDave420 said:
My main question or observation is isn't this recipe low on K? I really don't know, Any thoughts?
Edit:Update: I'm so confused! :eyesmoke:
I was about to order all this stuff now I'm second guessing the recipe.
RIP Subcool.
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It is low on K and way too high on N, P, and soluble fertilizers that will wash out of your soil instead of breaking down and providing you with the nutrients you need.

Here is a better recipe.

40 percent peat moss, coco coir, or pine tree bark
45 percent perlite, pumice, or rice hulls
15 percent worm castings or whatever best quality compost you have available (cow manure compost, lawn disposal based compost)

That makes your base potting soil.

Then you can literally buy any all purpose organic fertilizer bag from home depot or wherever and just use 1tbsp per gallon of soil for bigger plants, or 1 tsp for smaller plants. One that's labeled for tomatoes or vegetables will work best.

I'm at work but I'll shoot off another message in a minute here with a breakdown if you want to do all the ingredients separately yourself.
 
Do you have to let it cook as well? Is this soil recommended to be reusable if amended? I've been down a rabbit hole researching reusable living soils for days. I'm about to give up on it and just use new soil each grow I think.
 
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Mix up a batch and spend the next 3 months educating yourself here and picking up amendments and stuff you’re gonna need to begin reusing your mix.
 
Was Subcool's soil meant to be reused? I can't keep straight who is organic, living soil, reusing soil, so many extremely different recipes. I went down too many rabbit holes.
 
Dont think super soil wont work for you. It will. Most plants in my experiance liked it. Having said that I run a (coot) style mix and modded it very slightly.

Aloe powder
Agsil16
Malted barley
BAS big 6
Neptune harvest fish
Therm x 70 (yucca)
Coconut powder
Bio ag ful power
Grokashi
Em1, photosynthesis plus or fish shit (all work well)

These are most of what I supplement my coots mix with during the grow. After the grow I take .8-1cf malibu/home made castings and mix up 50 percent of the original inputs (including minrals) mix it all up good let it sit week or 2. Plop new plants into my 4x4 bed 4-6, and top dress the 1cf on top, bas 12 seed covercrop/grokashi/malted barley and my work is done other than water about once per week 5-8 gallons depending on where I'm at. Other than that very little other than normal plant maintaining etc. I prob could skip amendments per 2 cycles but prob wont chance it.

In a no till environment I'd recommend somthing more along the lines of coot mix or a similar one that is listed above. There is a few ways of going about "organic". What direction you want to go? If you amended correct most plants in coots mix will finish water only.

@hillbill is correct though. Education on how soil biology works will help you more. I'd pull the trigger on a proven mix (build it yourself) and hit the books. And of course if we or I can help you I'm sure we can. This dont mean a 60/40 peat/casting mix or a light mix cant get you going in the "cooking" process. Better to let them cook. Super soil will burn if not used correct period. Coots I have planted direct but would recommend giving it 3 or 4 weeks. If you are running seed this is no problem. Even cuts. Short cuts will NOT be your friend! Super soil MUST COOK imo and I'm sure anyone else will agree. Way to hot and mine hit like boiling hot during cooking.

Most importantly where are you headed in your organic journey? This will get you started faster... if I can help I will!

Happy growing!

Edit: yes SS you can reuse, if going no till go with a different mix. Dont let me deter you from SS. Dif strokes for dif folks...
 
Good info!
I just want organic, high quality. Saving money is desirable because everything is so expensive to get here. But, quality is most important.
I guess really I am trying to figure out what I want to do.
I was about to order Subcool's ingredients above but realized I didn't like it. Mainly just the high N low K looks off to me.
Now I'm asking a bunch of noob questions because I'm burnt out.
I realize I have more research to do.
I'm going to quit clogging up the threads for the day! Thanks for the info!!!!
 
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